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RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 11:50:37 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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Aneirin,

You gave reasons why you won't believe that a protest helps, I disagree with you there but respect your opinion, which is a completely different stance than saying "Why should I care, I got my education and who needs education anyway..." and then changing the subject at random when it gets uncomfy.

As for students cutting spending, maybe times have changed dramatically since I was a student, but I never had all that much money to spend, my biggest expenses next to rent and more than food were actually books and material I needed for university (not so much drinking as I worked in a club on the weekends), I worked part time next to university, still had to take student loans out, the only thing where I could have cut back would have been rent but living under a bridge didn't appeal, food - starvation didn't appeal and while I love rice and potatoes, I had my fair share of them as a student (if I feel nostalgic I make myself rice and eat it with soy sauce) - or books and university supplies. I don't think it's much different for students now, so where can they cut back to send a message?

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 461
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 11:54:27 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I am not going to a University protest.

Period.




You are repeating yourself... And I applaud you for that, the students are getting enough of a bad rep for a few crazies throwing stones

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
You presume a degree is the key to a career. That is not the case much anymore. I already have my education- so -- it wont effect me much.


I asked you to name careers where you don't need degrees... Please do...

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 462
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 12:01:49 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

I asked you to name careers where you don't need degrees... Please do.../snip

The trades.   No one on the block I grew up on went to college for that.   These days- trades pay more then office work.

One does not need a  degree to work in group homes.     I am not sure about funeral directors.  

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 463
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 12:04:24 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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I have known farmers- welders and truckers who did not go to school   A few can barely write their name.

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Profile   Post #: 464
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 12:06:51 PM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
You are skipping the question and are trying to side track. Why?

<raises hand from back of class>

Ooh! Miss! Miss! Please miss! I know why!

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 465
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 12:14:15 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy


I asked you to name careers where you don't need degrees... Please do.../snip

The trades.   No one on the block I grew up on went to college for that.   These days- trades pay more then office work.

One does not need a  degree to work in group homes.     I am not sure about funeral directors.  



I thought we were talking about careers... I don't consider being a secretary a career, I have a lot of respect for the work they are doing, just like I have a lot of respect for a good tradesperson but I wouldn't go as far as call that careers - unless of course you mean in office work being the PA of the CEO...

I think our definition of what is a career differs greatly. I think you also don't need a degree to be shift manager at a fast food restaurant...


< Message edited by LadyConstanze -- 12/17/2010 12:15:00 PM >


_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 466
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 12:16:16 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Aneirin,

You gave reasons why you won't believe that a protest helps, I disagree with you there but respect your opinion, which is a completely different stance than saying "Why should I care, I got my education and who needs education anyway..." and then changing the subject at random when it gets uncomfy.

As for students cutting spending, maybe times have changed dramatically since I was a student, but I never had all that much money to spend, my biggest expenses next to rent and more than food were actually books and material I needed for university (not so much drinking as I worked in a club on the weekends), I worked part time next to university, still had to take student loans out, the only thing where I could have cut back would have been rent but living under a bridge didn't appeal, food - starvation didn't appeal and while I love rice and potatoes, I had my fair share of them as a student (if I feel nostalgic I make myself rice and eat it with soy sauce) - or books and university supplies. I don't think it's much different for students now, so where can they cut back to send a message?


The younger lot at my college are out boozing and clubbing, also eating fast food, so much so, the idiots have lobbied for Costa to take over our canteen and now my coffee costa lota more than it did, a sodding quid as opposed to the  60 p it was, rip off, and I do not discern the difference and I am a hardened coffee drinker. So, perhaps the younger lot could cut something that will hurt, but it has to be done nationwide for it to count.

As to food, a student myself, I know what can be had cheaply, rice and pasta features a lot, as does legumes and I have just discovered sauerkraut, thanks to the Polish shops that are here now, their food is cheaper than our supermarkets, in fact any of the immigrant catered for shops are cheaper and more portion generous than the supermarkets.

What can I go without, well beer, instead of dropping in for a pint or two  organic cider (8.5 % and it makes my teeth scream), after college, I go home instead and do something instead of going to bed early. I am saving loads, but I do go out on the weekend as I engage in pub quizzes, which go well at the start, but quickly degenerate with the anount of ale drunk throughout. I cut the beer to save money, and I saved a bit, so it can be done, but a pity really on the publicans, for the government is out to get them as well.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 467
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 12:18:06 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
You are skipping the question and are trying to side track. Why?

<raises hand from back of class>

Ooh! Miss! Miss! Please miss! I know why!


<peers over glasses>

Yes Rapier, you think you know the answer?

<Taps cane casually on booted foot> (oh err lets not get carried away with the whole role play scenario)

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 468
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 12:20:38 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy


I asked you to name careers where you don't need degrees... Please do.../snip

The trades.   No one on the block I grew up on went to college for that.   These days- trades pay more then office work.

One does not need a  degree to work in group homes.     I am not sure about funeral directors.  



I thought we were talking about careers... I don't consider being a secretary a career, I have a lot of respect for the work they are doing, just like I have a lot of respect for a good tradesperson but I wouldn't go as far as call that careers - unless of course you mean in office work being the PA of the CEO...

I think our definition of what is a career differs greatly. I think you also don't need a degree to be shift manager at a fast food restaurant...



In that case we should just abolish the colleges.  They do not produce anything.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 469
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 12:28:37 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin



The younger lot at my college are out boozing and clubbing, also eating fast food, so much so, the idiots have lobbied for Costa to take over our canteen and now my coffee costa lota more than it did, a sodding quid as opposed to the  60 p it was, rip off, and I do not discern the difference and I am a hardened coffee drinker. So, perhaps the younger lot could cut something that will hurt, but it has to be done nationwide for it to count.

As to food, a student myself, I know what can be had cheaply, rice and pasta features a lot, as does legumes and I have just discovered sauerkraut, thanks to the Polish shops that are here now, their food is cheaper than our supermarkets, in fact any of the immigrant catered for shops are cheaper and more portion generous than the supermarkets.

What can I go without, well beer, instead of dropping in for a pint or two  organic cider (8.5 % and it makes my teeth scream), after college, I go home instead and do something instead of going to bed early. I am saving loads, but I do go out on the weekend as I engage in pub quizzes, which go well at the start, but quickly degenerate with the anount of ale drunk throughout. I cut the beer to save money, and I saved a bit, so it can be done, but a pity really on the publicans, for the government is out to get them as well.



You know the lot you describe here, they are the ones who possibly don't mind the raise because mom and dad will foot the bills and send their degenerated offspring to get degrees. It seems that they are the ones who won't be harmed by the raise of fees.

As a student I was really angry with my parents that they told me I have to make it on my own because education is a privilege and work ethics count and since I wanted to move out I couldn't expect them to pay my rent. At the time I was really not best pleased (to put it mildly), after finishing university I realized what a massive favor they did me, I was miles ahead in terms of work experience (worked in the university breaks and part time) and the attitude towards work from other students who had their parents supplying them with money, flats, cars and all that.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 470
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 12:30:04 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy


In that case we should just abolish the colleges.  They do not produce anything.



Absolutely, I mean who needs scientists, doctors, lawyers...

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 471
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 12:36:45 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy


In that case we should just abolish the colleges.  They do not produce anything.



Absolutely, I mean who needs scientists, doctors, lawyers...


By virtue of tripling the fees- they are more less getting rid of it anyway.   Only those who can actually achieve science/dr/lawyer- would benefit to go there.
How does this work?  I mean will student loans be available?   If so- with what kind of strings?

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 472
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 12:39:33 PM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
How does this work?  I mean will student loans be available?   If so- with what kind of strings?

Why don't you go away for half an hour and do some research before opening your mouth?

Just for once. It'll be a nice change for you.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 473
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 12:42:11 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy


In that case we should just abolish the colleges.  They do not produce anything.



Absolutely, I mean who needs scientists, doctors, lawyers...


By virtue of tripling the fees- they are more less getting rid of it anyway.   Only those who can actually achieve science/dr/lawyer- would benefit to go there.
How does this work?  I mean will student loans be available?   If so- with what kind of strings?



It means that a large degree of people who are able to study will come from wealthy families, poorer students will have less chances. Student loans will still be available but it will take them 3 times as long to pay them back. I think right now the average student leaves university with a debt of 20 to 30K (could be wrong there, maybe somebody knows better), raising the student fees 3 times will mean they are looking for jobs with a debt of 60 to 90K (that's real money £ not $), so since they will want to earn that quickly and pay it back, it most likely will mean that their rates will go up, and even people who don't have college degrees will have to pay those rates...


_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 474
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 12:45:11 PM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
You are skipping the question and are trying to side track. Why?

<raises hand from back of class>

Ooh! Miss! Miss! Please miss! I know why!


<peers over glasses>

Yes Rapier, you think you know the answer?


Yes miss! It's coz he's an evasive fuckwit miss, and has neither the brains nor balls to answer the question!

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
(oh err lets not get carried away with the whole role play scenario)

Indeed let's not. Wouldn't work on me, for a start.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 475
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 12:51:10 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy


In that case we should just abolish the colleges.  They do not produce anything.



Absolutely, I mean who needs scientists, doctors, lawyers...


By virtue of tripling the fees- they are more less getting rid of it anyway.   Only those who can actually achieve science/dr/lawyer- would benefit to go there.
How does this work?  I mean will student loans be available?   If so- with what kind of strings?



It means that a large degree of people who are able to study will come from wealthy families, poorer students will have less chances. Student loans will still be available but it will take them 3 times as long to pay them back. I think right now the average student leaves university with a debt of 20 to 30K (could be wrong there, maybe somebody knows better), raising the student fees 3 times will mean they are looking for jobs with a debt of 60 to 90K (that's real money £ not $), so since they will want to earn that quickly and pay it back, it most likely will mean that their rates will go up, and even people who don't have college degrees will have to pay those rates...



That sucks.  

There has to be another way.  

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 476
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 12:56:51 PM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline
Owning a business does not require a degree. Owning a successful business oft times seems to make a degree counter-indicative, going by the number of dropouts who own mega-successful entities; though if you want one anyway, I'd say go for it.

Edit: In reply to Pahunk, not Rapier. I thought it was a better answer than the trades, since those are becoming very difficult to sustain a career in without some business sense.


< Message edited by DMFParadox -- 12/17/2010 1:00:53 PM >


_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 477
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 12:58:49 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

Indeed let's not. Wouldn't work on me, for a start.



LOL, was too good to pass up and some of the school uniforms look quite ridiculous.

So you mean I don't have to give you a gold star? Would you like for some Swizz pralines or pine nut Panettone instead? Got an Xmas parcel and don't really care much for sweets...

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 478
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 1:17:22 PM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline
Also, I'd like to point out some alternative means of schooling:
Andrew Jackson University had several Bachelor programs that were completely free. I don't see it on their website anymore, but you might contact them and find out if the program is still running.
College of the Ozarks labels itself "Work U", and has a program where tuition is 100% paid by on-campus work.
The Master List of Free Online Courses is what it says on the tin.

Someone mentioned the MIT stuff; it's... not for the faint of heart, but you can theoretically get a high level of education that way.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to DMFParadox)
Profile   Post #: 479
RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under ... - 12/17/2010 1:21:06 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

Also, I'd like to point out some alternative means of schooling:
Andrew Jackson University had several Bachelor programs that were completely free. I don't see it on their website anymore, but you might contact them and find out if the program is still running.
College of the Ozarks labels itself "Work U", and has a program where tuition is 100% paid by on-campus work.
The Master List of Free Online Courses is what it says on the tin.

Someone mentioned the MIT stuff; it's... not for the faint of heart, but you can theoretically get a high level of education that way.


THANK YOU.  This is who we navigate thru the mess.

(in reply to DMFParadox)
Profile   Post #: 480
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