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RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 3:30:38 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Sure, of course, and you think the NHS is great and a world wide insurance figures the NHS in...

You're the expert, which helps me to understand why the NHS is in the state it is now, that makes a lot of sense...

Oh you still maintain it's free for the paltry little sum of £547.23 - I have a bridge in Brooklyn....

Honestly, you're making yourself look very, very stupid. You should quit while you're behind.

Go do some research; look at whole of life costs, look at term financing, look at banding costs by condition, look at scale per capita vs. coverage, and then factor in what assumptions and exclusions "worldwide" coverage makes. Then relate that to nations with populations in excess of 60,000,000.

To correct everything wrong you've said this evening would take about 5 pages, and I'm not inclined to bother. So, you just sit there, in your ignorance, spouting inaccurate, ignorant crap, and I'll simply suggest, once again, that if it's such a bad system, you should fuck off somewhere else.

BTW, be sure to inform your "worldwide" insurance company where else it is you settle (and before you claim they don't care, wait til you start undergoing longer term treatment anywhere other than the UK, France, Italy or Germany) ...


yep...because in other countries you might actually survive for longer after such treatment than in the UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1560849/UK-cancer-survival-rate-lowest-in-Europe.html

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 3:42:27 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower
yep...because in other countries you might actually survive for longer after such treatment than in the UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1560849/UK-cancer-survival-rate-lowest-in-Europe.html

And if you'd like to pay taxes on a level levied in other countries then the NHS will be only too happy to extend the service. Selecting very narrow-topic instances of poor NHS performance isn’t a bright idea unless you’re going to start looking at the money spent per capita.

You can't buy a Rolls Royce for Mini money. Go do research on what the NHS covers (services that almost all other countries don't include, like fertility, transgender issues, plastic surgery*), for what size of population (those countries with more efficient systems tend to have much smaller, healthier populations), with what restrictions (virtually none, unlike almost all other countries) at what median age, for what percentage of GDP, for what starting level of general health, for what coverage of foreign nationals treated* etc etc.

BTW, as I've had CMail about this I'd just like to point out I don't work for the NHS but, unlike a lot of people commenting, I worked in that sector for a good few years, and thus understand the money issues. As in so many things in life it's not so "obvious" as it first appears.

And that’s the last time I’ll respond to ignorant, uninformed comments on this topic; go do your homework before spouting complete crap.

*not saying I agree with all of them, as I think they try to do too much, and I do think we should have a public debate about core services, but the fact is they cover more than any other large population healthcare service (that doesn't cost the earth).

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 4:35:05 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
Lady C, I'm sorry to hear about the injury.  For an animal lover, they don't seem to be loving you back lately.  I do hope that you're feeling better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
And good luck. Ankles are a bitch. I once fell through a roof, landing upright on a concrete floor 30 feet below, and (among other things) broke one ankle and sprained the other. The broken ankle was fine in a couple of months, the sprain took over a year before it healed. I hope your outcome is much less dramatic than mine.


I wanted to ask you about this, Panda.  Do you happen to know why this is? 

Quick back story on the reason I'm asking.  I took a spill Myself back in October.  Left ankle and foot were messed up pretty good for several weeks.  Took another in November.  Not nearly as bad, but it had everything to do with the ankle still being weak.  I noticed the same trouble coming out of the Post Office just a couple of days ago.  My foot was off just a bit and there was still pain in the ankle.  Stayed on My feet that time, rather than falling on My tail, but it put a bit of wonder in Me about just how long it's going to be before it gets back to the same strength. 

I guess what I'm asking here is, did your doctor ever tell you why the sprain takes longer to heal?



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 5:12:19 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower
yep...because in other countries you might actually survive for longer after such treatment than in the UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1560849/UK-cancer-survival-rate-lowest-in-Europe.html

And if you'd like to pay taxes on a level levied in other countries then the NHS will be only too happy to extend the service. Selecting very narrow-topic instances of poor NHS performance isn’t a bright idea unless you’re going to start looking at the money spent per capita.

You can't buy a Rolls Royce for Mini money. Go do research on what the NHS covers (services that almost all other countries don't include, like fertility, transgender issues, plastic surgery*), for what size of population (those countries with more efficient systems tend to have much smaller, healthier populations), with what restrictions (virtually none, unlike almost all other countries) at what median age, for what percentage of GDP, for what starting level of general health, for what coverage of foreign nationals treated* etc etc.

BTW, as I've had CMail about this I'd just like to point out I don't work for the NHS but, unlike a lot of people commenting, I worked in that sector for a good few years, and thus understand the money issues. As in so many things in life it's not so "obvious" as it first appears.

And that’s the last time I’ll respond to ignorant, uninformed comments on this topic; go do your homework before spouting complete crap.

*not saying I agree with all of them, as I think they try to do too much, and I do think we should have a public debate about core services, but the fact is they cover more than any other large population healthcare service (that doesn't cost the earth).



I really don't care about your suggestion to research this or to do that...I have EXPERIENCED how it can be done better...as mentioned in another thread I paid less per month on healthcare and counciltax together in Germany than you do here and got a better service...no need to research something I know it can be done better You want to live in your lil bubble of denial, thats fine...I am not going to burst it

I know it is good:

http://www.amiexpat.com/2009/08/18/health-care-in-germany/

< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 12/23/2010 5:17:15 AM >


_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 5:30:39 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower
I really don't care about your suggestion to research this or to do that...I have EXPERIENCED how it can be done better...as mentioned in another thread I paid less per month on healthcare and counciltax together in Germany than you do here and got a better service...no need to research something I know it can be done better You want to live in your lil bubble of denial, thats fine...I am not going to burst it

*sigh*

You're not comparing like with like, as I told you, and her, several times.

Ignorance is, in this case, clearly bliss for you, but it doesn't make you right.

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 5:32:05 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Lady C, I'm sorry to hear about the injury.  For an animal lover, they don't seem to be loving you back lately.  I do hope that you're feeling better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
And good luck. Ankles are a bitch. I once fell through a roof, landing upright on a concrete floor 30 feet below, and (among other things) broke one ankle and sprained the other. The broken ankle was fine in a couple of months, the sprain took over a year before it healed. I hope your outcome is much less dramatic than mine.


I wanted to ask you about this, Panda.  Do you happen to know why this is? 

Quick back story on the reason I'm asking.  I took a spill Myself back in October.  Left ankle and foot were messed up pretty good for several weeks.  Took another in November.  Not nearly as bad, but it had everything to do with the ankle still being weak.  I noticed the same trouble coming out of the Post Office just a couple of days ago.  My foot was off just a bit and there was still pain in the ankle.  Stayed on My feet that time, rather than falling on My tail, but it put a bit of wonder in Me about just how long it's going to be before it gets back to the same strength. 

I guess what I'm asking here is, did your doctor ever tell you why the sprain takes longer to heal?



Soft tissue damage, like sprains, ligament tears and the like, generally take longer to heal, and have more ongoing issues, than hard tissue (bone) breaks.

There are a number of reasons for this (this from memory, not an exhaustive list, also depends a lot on the area and nature of the damage, so generalisations are a bit iffy to make, but ...);

1. Like-for-like healing: Bone heals and re-grows with a substance (new bone formation) that is almost identical to the original substance; new bone growth is liable (in the young to middle-aged) to be slightly more flexible, and more porous, than aged bone, but so long as calcification takes place at a reasonable rate you’re left with something that has very nearly the same properties as the original bone – where it doesn’t have the same properties is why people get “weather legs” i.e. after a breakage in a major (large) bone, the healed bone is slightly more flexible than the original bone, hence you can get discomfort as the bone flexes internally. Soft tissue doesn’t always heal in the same way – the new growth of muscles and tissues can be substantially different to what was there before, in terms of strength and flexibility. New ligament growth, for example, is generally far less flexible than what was present before, due to formation of scar tissue (which has very poor flexibility).

2. Wound site contamination: when new bone grows, either into a gap (“bridging”), or along a break line, you tend to get only or mostly bone growing; the body doesn't put additional substance into the area beyond those needed to supply blood to the area, whereas with soft tissue damage the area is liable to be suffused with various contaminants, like blood from ruptured blood vessels, bits of damaged cartilage or ligament, or intrusion from muscles and/or blood vessels in the area which may have responded to the damage and subsequent swelling – this is why RICE (Rest, Ice, Compression and Elevation) is important; it’s not so much to help relieve the pain (although it does), it’s more to promote beneficial healing through having the damage site as near to pre-injury as possible, so that when your body starts to heal, it does so with a “template” as close to pre-injury as possible.

3. Rate of, and strength of, new soft tissue growth: Cartilage does not re-grow much under normal conditions (hardly at all under normal conditions), and ligament only slowly and less effectively than bone. As a result, a soft tissue injury will often take longer, and have a more difficult recovery, than pure bone breaks. As an example, when I had my big crash (the one that nearly killed me), most of the bone damage was healed (or largely healed) within 12 months. The soft tissue damage to my back and neck, however, was so severe that it will never properly heal. Additionally, healed soft tissue is not generally as strong as the tissues originally present, so there’s a fair chance that subsequent injuries of the same nature become more likely.

4. Blood supply: bone has a high degree of vascularity (i.e. has a good blood supply) in most areas of the body, whereas tendons, ligaments and the like are generally (varies from body area to area but generally) avascular, i.e. they have a much lower blood supply and throughput – since most of the healing processes require blood to work properly, load-bearing soft tissues like tendons, ligaments and the like generally heal more slowly than bones.

The bad news is that, if you've severely sprained your ankle (one of the easier joints to damage semi-permanently) several times in a short time period (like, say, 3 or 4 times in a year), the likelihood is that it won’t heal properly on its own. The good news is that the operation to rectify this is very successful, and fairly non-invasive. A friend managed to permanently damage his ankle by spraining it 5 times in a year (!), but he had one operation, was in for one day, wore a cast for a few weeks (to support the “joins” and wound site and keep the joint in the correct position, and also to prevent over-stretching the repair) and he’s had not a moment’s problems with it since, and has returned to playing sports (like squash!) without further issues.

Bottom line is it can take up a year for soft tissue damage to heal properly in several areas of the body (like ankles), and if further injuries occur it can mean a small operation, but as I say that's nothing to worry about as it’s purely routine these days. Where it gets trickier is with things like knees and shoulders, the former because it’s a complex joint of fairly poor “design”, and the latter because it takes a lot of stress in everyday life.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 5:33:18 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
RF, I appreciate being quoted and all, but I think you left something out.  

Never mind......  There it is.  LOL.


< Message edited by LadyPact -- 12/23/2010 5:34:04 AM >


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 5:36:46 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

RF, I appreciate being quoted and all, but I think you left something out.  

Never mind......  There it is.  LOL.


Yes, that was what I will term a gent's ordinary, unleaded fuck-up :)

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 5:37:08 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower
I really don't care about your suggestion to research this or to do that...I have EXPERIENCED how it can be done better...as mentioned in another thread I paid less per month on healthcare and counciltax together in Germany than you do here and got a better service...no need to research something I know it can be done better You want to live in your lil bubble of denial, thats fine...I am not going to burst it

*sigh*

You're not comparing like with like, as I told you, and her, several times.

Ignorance is, in this case, clearly bliss for you, but it doesn't make you right.


I know, the bad people who dare to criticise something are the ignorant ones... of course, never the ones who can't accept other folks views Thanks for that laugh

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 5:41:55 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower
I know, the bad people who dare to criticise something are the ignorant ones... of course, never the ones who can't accept other folks views Thanks for that laugh

As I said, you're happy in your ignorance.

Don't get me wrong; the NHS could be run substantially better than it is, and it's a long way from perfect. It frustrates me that successive governments have failed (due to political cowardice) to grasp the nettles of employment terms for NHS staff, depth and number of core services offered, withdrawing funding for mickey mouse and alternative therapies, etc.

However, all of that doesn’t make you right I'm afraid, and you can "ROFL!!!!" as much as you like; it won't improve either your knowledge of the subject or your correctness on the matter.

And that really is the last I'm saying on that topic; I'm not paid to educate the ignorant, and I do it for free only for so long. With some people you have to accept when you're swimming upstream through treacle.

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 5:49:13 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
My ophthalmic surgeon is from India. He was offered a job in the U.K., at the top hospital for eye surgery in London. The other doctors told him not to take it. The laser treatment he uses routinely here was not scheduled to be purchased at any time in the near future there. Other equipment, same story. He was being asked to perform top quality care with substandard tools, which he couldn't do.

So he chose to accept a job in the U.S.

It isn't just the patients who dislike the NHS in the UK, the better doctors won't work for it either.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 5:50:38 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
RF, thank you so much for taking the time!  I appreciate it a great deal.  What you say here makes a good bit of sense.  I will have to show your comments to MP, as he is better of taking care of Me than I am.

Thank you, again.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 5:54:07 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

My ophthalmic surgeon is from India. He was offered a job in the U.K., at the top hospital for eye surgery in London. The other doctors told him not to take it. The laser treatment he uses routinely here was not scheduled to be purchased at any time in the near future there. Other equipment, same story. He was being asked to perform top quality care with substandard tools, which he couldn't do.

So he chose to accept a job in the U.S.

It isn't just the patients who dislike the NHS in the UK, the better doctors won't work for it either.


Which is a funding issue - if people want to spend as much on healthcare as, say, the Americans do (and remember that millions of the poorest of them receive little or no healthcare) then of course you're going to get a more Rolls-Royce solution. But people have voted against such an expansion of the NHS' budget before, and politicians are scared of suggesting it again, therefore things continue to be sub-standard in some areas.

That doesn't mean the NHS as a whole doesn't provide excellent VFM, and decent treatment in most areas.

AAAAARRRRGGGHHHHHHH!!!! I got drawn in AGAIN! :) Must stop! :)

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 5:57:36 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

RF, thank you so much for taking the time!  I appreciate it a great deal.  What you say here makes a good bit of sense.  I will have to show your comments to MP, as he is better of taking care of Me than I am.

Thank you, again.


My pleasure. Always HTH (Happy To Help).

You just need to be prepared for a long recovery (sorry!). Also see your GP, as physio can help more than you'd think, notwithstanding the fact all Physios are Sadists :).

Oh and if it continues to be a problem don't just be brave and "put up with it" - if it needs surgical sorting, the sooner it's done the greater the chances of success (and they're already high - it's a routine op these days).

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 6:17:08 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
Ha!  Taking Me to the doctor is like trying to drag a mule by anything but the bit.  I should have went when I fell originally and I regret not doing so now.  I do tend to be the 'put up with it' type.  My other half, bless him, has learned to acquire patience in such matters.

I've been quite interested in the NHS discussion.  Having worked in the field, do you really think that England is doing a better job than Germany?


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 6:42:01 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Ha!  Taking Me to the doctor is like trying to drag a mule by anything but the bit.  I should have went when I fell originally and I regret not doing so now.  I do tend to be the 'put up with it' type.  My other half, bless him, has learned to acquire patience in such matters.



The "put up with it" types are usually the ones who stay in more pain for longer, so keep that in mind.
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I've been quite interested in the NHS discussion.  Having worked in the field, do you really think that England is doing a better job than Germany?




"Better" implies you're comparing like with like. Is it a better service, in pure quality terms? No, it isn't, and I've never said it is. Germany is a more affluent country with (and let's not fall into the generalisation trap, but we have to start somewhere) a generally healthier population to start with. The NHS generally provides excellent VFM for what it's asked to do. The problem is the number of "services" which have been tacked onto the Core Service Requirements, as well as some of the staff asked to provide them - the NHS employment contracts make it almost impossible to bring about organic change in anything like a reasonable timescale.

When we're at a point, in the start of the 21st century, where NHS funding is still (in some areas) going to bullshit remedies like homeopathy and the like then it's clear the monster is out of control. It needs radical reform, but the problem there is no government wants to do more than tinker at the edges, and also, if I'm honest, I don't think it should be under political control in the first place. If you suggested that Britain’s population doesn't really need increasing at present, and therefore (as painful as it would be for some) we shouldn’t be spending NHS money on such services as Fertility, then you’d get voted out of power in seconds flat – people don't want to hear the truth (that we can’t have it all at a knock-down price) but neither do they want to reach into their wallets to fix what’s wrong.

We get out of it what we put into it; if we want a better NHS then we have to accept that change is necessary, and that we're going to have to provide more funds to do that, as well as stripping out the dross staff (and there are some terrible NHS employees); trouble is, no-one wants to accept that the time for small changes is past.

In addition, the NI system itself needs to be moved slowly but progressively from a non-invested to invested platform; this was something the founders of the NHS failed to envision (and for which, TBH, they can't be blamed, as the scale and longevity of it surprised many), but which needs sorting out within the next 20 years.

People also need to accept their part in things; the single biggest threat ATM is the ballooning weight of the UK populace; as just one example, diabetes referrals are increasing at a terrifying rate, and (paradoxically) the success of long term treatments for it means lots of people will be taking up lots of cash and clinical time (medication assessments, scans, diabetic retinopathy, etc) for a long time to come.

In the current climate any talk of additional investment to fix problems is not politically viable, therefore I fear that what we will see is the old UK “disease” of “it doesn't need fixing yet”, until the burden on the system is such that it starts to collapse, and the time for reform passes.

But, at present, the NHS is still one of the most cost-effective clinical service providers in the world, as measured by several reports over the years, once you factor in investment as a percentage of wealth, services offered, coverage, access by foreign nationals*, and about 50 other factors (and I’m not exaggerating, it really is that complex an equation if you want to be fair and factor in as many variables as possible), so to point at it and say “it’s crap!” is just ignorant. Could it be better? Yes, much. But it does what it does, for all, for free at point of entry, and it does so at a price that’s comparable with almost anywhere in the world, if you factor in the variables.

Fuck. Got drawn in again! I’m going to cut my hands off in a min ... and not ask the NHS to sew them back on again

*I don’t object to the EU because we get reciprocal agreements with members states (even though we end up providing more care than we get in return, by far), but some of the work the NHS does for “temporary residents”, like women from middle class African and Asian nations who come to the UK to have their kids for free or hugely subsidised, then bugger off again immediately afterwards, or some of the Osteo and Rheumatology services soaked up by people who’ve never paid a penny into the NHS, does somewhat annoy me. Last year the NHS spent nearly a billion pounds on treating people who had never made any contribution to it, nor to any other EU health policy.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 7:05:53 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
Fascinating.  Every bit.  I'd like to digest your comments a bit before forming a reply.  Excellent point on such services as fertility.  I'm quite curious about such optional issues.  I suppose it is because I am old fashioned, but I don't find such things necessary.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 12/23/2010 8:59:41 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Fascinating.  Every bit.  I'd like to digest your comments a bit before forming a reply. 


You're welcome to, but I won't be replying :)

< Message edited by RapierFugue -- 12/23/2010 9:00:20 AM >

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 1/10/2011 12:36:42 PM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Ha!  Taking Me to the doctor is like trying to drag a mule by anything but the bit.  I should have went when I fell originally and I regret not doing so now.  I do tend to be the 'put up with it' type.  My other half, bless him, has learned to acquire patience in such matters.



The "put up with it" types are usually the ones who stay in more pain for longer, so keep that in mind.
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I've been quite interested in the NHS discussion.  Having worked in the field, do you really think that England is doing a better job than Germany?



"Better" implies you're comparing like with like. Is it a better service, in pure quality terms? No, it isn't, and I've never said it is. Germany is a more affluent country with (and let's not fall into the generalisation trap, but we have to start somewhere) a generally healthier population to start with. The NHS generally provides excellent VFM for what it's asked to do. The problem is the number of "services" which have been tacked onto the Core Service Requirements, as well as some of the staff asked to provide them - the NHS employment contracts make it almost impossible to bring about organic change in anything like a reasonable timescale.

When we're at a point, in the start of the 21st century, where NHS funding is still (in some areas) going to bullshit remedies like homeopathy and the like then it's clear the monster is out of control. It needs radical reform, but the problem there is no government wants to do more than tinker at the edges, and also, if I'm honest, I don't think it should be under political control in the first place. If you suggested that Britain’s population doesn't really need increasing at present, and therefore (as painful as it would be for some) we shouldn’t be spending NHS money on such services as Fertility, then you’d get voted out of power in seconds flat – people don't want to hear the truth (that we can’t have it all at a knock-down price) but neither do they want to reach into their wallets to fix what’s wrong.

We get out of it what we put into it; if we want a better NHS then we have to accept that change is necessary, and that we're going to have to provide more funds to do that, as well as stripping out the dross staff (and there are some terrible NHS employees); trouble is, no-one wants to accept that the time for small changes is past.

In addition, the NI system itself needs to be moved slowly but progressively from a non-invested to invested platform; this was something the founders of the NHS failed to envision (and for which, TBH, they can't be blamed, as the scale and longevity of it surprised many), but which needs sorting out within the next 20 years.

People also need to accept their part in things; the single biggest threat ATM is the ballooning weight of the UK populace; as just one example, diabetes referrals are increasing at a terrifying rate, and (paradoxically) the success of long term treatments for it means lots of people will be taking up lots of cash and clinical time (medication assessments, scans, diabetic retinopathy, etc) for a long time to come.

In the current climate any talk of additional investment to fix problems is not politically viable, therefore I fear that what we will see is the old UK “disease” of “it doesn't need fixing yet”, until the burden on the system is such that it starts to collapse, and the time for reform passes.

But, at present, the NHS is still one of the most cost-effective clinical service providers in the world, as measured by several reports over the years, once you factor in investment as a percentage of wealth, services offered, coverage, access by foreign nationals*, and about 50 other factors (and I’m not exaggerating, it really is that complex an equation if you want to be fair and factor in as many variables as possible), so to point at it and say “it’s crap!” is just ignorant. Could it be better? Yes, much. But it does what it does, for all, for free at point of entry, and it does so at a price that’s comparable with almost anywhere in the world, if you factor in the variables.

Fuck. Got drawn in again! I’m going to cut my hands off in a min ... and not ask the NHS to sew them back on again

*I don’t object to the EU because we get reciprocal agreements with members states (even though we end up providing more care than we get in return, by far), but some of the work the NHS does for “temporary residents”, like women from middle class African and Asian nations who come to the UK to have their kids for free or hugely subsidised, then bugger off again immediately afterwards, or some of the Osteo and Rheumatology services soaked up by people who’ve never paid a penny into the NHS, does somewhat annoy me. Last year the NHS spent nearly a billion pounds on treating people who had never made any contribution to it, nor to any other EU health policy.



Gosh, must still be smacked in my face from my happy mood, but thats the first time I see myself agreeing with him...even when I still see it as crap as I am spoilt like that, but agree that you get what you pay for

< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 1/10/2011 12:38:01 PM >


_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Meds and sleep deprivation... - 1/10/2011 12:40:45 PM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

My ophthalmic surgeon is from India. He was offered a job in the U.K., at the top hospital for eye surgery in London. The other doctors told him not to take it. The laser treatment he uses routinely here was not scheduled to be purchased at any time in the near future there. Other equipment, same story. He was being asked to perform top quality care with substandard tools, which he couldn't do.

So he chose to accept a job in the U.S.

It isn't just the patients who dislike the NHS in the UK, the better doctors won't work for it either.



also - if it is true, was told it recently on the boards - the medication amitriptyline which I am getting here for my fibromyalgia is considered to be out of date in the US or Canada or both...now....I don't complain about it as I am thankful for it, but if that is the case then it shows again the difference.

< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 1/10/2011 12:41:21 PM >


_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 80
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