RE: are there any real femdoms? (Full Version)

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LadyConstanze -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (1/28/2011 6:52:26 AM)

Peon, that worked for you because you have enough dom in you, some guys don't and guys are wired a bit differently than women.

Women (and there are some women) who really have no "BDSM gene" or whatever you want to call it, they are trying to do it to please their partners but they loath it inside, it's going to mess up the relationship in a lot of cases. For us it's about intimacy, something we like, for them it's about enduring something that goes against the grain to please their partners because the guy comes out with that after a few years of marriage and possibly children. Surely you can see how that can mess with a relationship and really ruin the sexlife.
Some people find BDSM or kink repulsive, they might be tolerant and have a live and let live attitude but it's not for them, you have to respect that and be honest about it. A relationship is about trust, how much trust can you have if one partner lied to you about fundamental basics and desires? Add to that the added complication of BDSM, that all the other person has to do is show up at a police station with marks and claim abuse and I end up in court defending myself, massive big scandal, colleagues and neighbours snickering behind your back... How likely am I to do something potentially risky with a person who has betrayed me before?



PeonForHer -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (1/28/2011 7:23:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Women (and there are some women) who really have no "BDSM gene" or whatever you want to call it, they are trying to do it to please their partners but they loath it inside


Well, obviously, if someone loathes it inside, then it's not going to happen. Me, I got some kind of fun, and 'fun' really is the appropriate word. It didn't send me into waves of sexual delight.

Perhaps the acid test is this:

I worked it out ages ago that the very best chance of getting anything of my sub-side satisfied would come as a result of my being very flexible with it. What was it, at minimum, that I needed? It was simple: I wanted her to feel powerful over me. I wanted to be able to see that in her. So, to a woman with whom I'd begun to get together (to the point where we knew we wanted to have sex, that is), I said, "What I want, most of all, is to for you, and be for you, exactly what *you want*. That's what turns me on". Her reply hit the jackpot for me. It was, "Really? Wow! What woman would say 'No' to that?"

Hot steamy discussions ensued. Once convinced that I meant what I said (which took a long time), her fantasies started to motor into overdrive. Lots of quite bizarre things (only some of which have been mentioned on this board). But I injected my fave little fantasy, ever so tentatively, into those conversations - and she jumped on it. Loved the idea of it.

All this, though, happened only because a) I'd pushed myself to be very flexible, b) didn't pressure her at all and c) she had that initial reaction of 'What woman would say 'No' to a man who wanted her to have everything her own way?'

So, yes, without c) - if she freezes at that point - I agree. There'd be no chance. For me, anyway, that is. I can't see how it'd ever work for me unless a woman has, in some sense, an initial instinct, in some major sense, to grab the chance to be selfish and then (at least occasionally) revel in it.



LadyConstanze -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (1/28/2011 7:59:03 AM)

I worked for you because you are able to be flexible, not everybody is wired that way, there isn't a right or wrong about it, it's just how you are, part of your genetic makeup, some guys are just not able to be so flexible, it doesn't make them bad, it's only if they would lie to their partners about it and hide it, that would be wrong.

My take on that is really simple, as long as it's just yourself, anything goes, as soon as it involves another person or you're about to start a relationship - cards on the table, be honest about it, because it's not just yourself anymore, you're involving another person and you can only do that if the person does give consent, to give consent, they have to know about it.



LadyPact -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (1/28/2011 8:05:01 AM)

I think in the last page or so, you folks are doing an excellent job of discussing the matter without actually using the term bait and switch.  I'm probably in the minority om this one, but I do tend to lump it into the same category.

Hey, if a person can bring a supposedly non kinky person over to the kink (or authority) side of this and everything works out, great!  Everybody's happy and getting their wants fulfilled.  That makes it a happy ending and I'm happy that it worked out for them so well.  I'm all for it.

At the same time, I'm a very firm believer that not everybody wants what we might want.  Sure, there's been a lot out there in the last few years that it's almost become something of a fad on the sexual front.  I do believe that more people are exploring because the ideas are a little more out there in the open.  We still have to remember that not everybody is wired like us just the same as we ask vanilla folks to accept that we're not wired like them.

When I first met clip, one of the hopes that we had was that we would get his wife interested in being his Domme.  Had it worked out that way, he probably would have been so happy that he could walk on air.  The reality of it is that she's not wired for it.  Not in the bedroom.  Not out of it.  Not period.  She doesn't like to be forced to try to be something that she's not, and I don't blame her. 

In clip's case, I do tend to think that he's lucky.  I'm not saying that because I happen to be his Mistress.  I'm saying it because he's able to have a workable solution to being married to a vanilla and still have the ability to be submissive with someone else.  Not everybody has the option to do that where it doesn't have to involve either cheating or giving up the desires.



PeonForHer -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (1/28/2011 9:26:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Hey, if a person can bring a supposedly non kinky person over to the kink (or authority) side of this and everything works out, great!  Everybody's happy and getting their wants fulfilled.  That makes it a happy ending and I'm happy that it worked out for them so well.  I'm all for it.


I'm more optimistic than I used to be about that, LP. That's because, after many years of dating vanilla women, I came to the strong belief that women don't, as a sex, have the same sense of entitlement as men do. I looked at enough females' faces, whilst in bed, eventually to realise that they start off with a stronger assumption that you, the males, are the 'do-ers', and they, the females, are the 'done-to's'. For me that realisation is the starting point, and a lot can flow from it.



LadyPact -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (1/28/2011 9:35:42 AM)

It's not that I don't want to be optimistic, peon.  It's that I want to be fair.

With all of the varying degrees of kink, I think we also have to accept that, in some instances, that degree really is zero.  I suppose I see it in the same way as I do sexuality.  Just like some people have absolutely no interest in the same sex or the opposite sex, some just don't have an interest or desire for kink.  Those folks are completely happy with their own sexuality and don't want to have to feel like they have to be something else.  If we get the right to be who we are, they get the right to be who they are, too.



PeonForHer -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (1/28/2011 10:06:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
If we get the right to be who we are, they get the right to be who they are, too.


No argument. (Well, as if anyone seriously could argue with that without being machine-gunned for it. ;-))

What I'd love to do is post a question, based on my aforementioned view of the necessary condition for femdom/submale relationships, on a vanilla sex/dating-type forum for women. That is, something like:

"'What I want, most of all, is to for you, and be for you, exactly what *you want*. That's what turns me on.'. "

If a man said this to you in bed, how would you feel?"

But I wish, also, that I'd thought of this ten years ago, so that I could have posted the question then, and re-posted it now. I'd love to see if attitudes had changed.







PeonForHer -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (1/28/2011 10:09:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I worked for you because you are able to be flexible


Just noticed that.

Yes! I love your Freudian slips, Lady C. [:)]



herpet1313 -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (1/28/2011 6:43:25 PM)

PeonForHer
You said it best. To all the dommes here, let me say, I did not just spring my submissive desires on some trembling wall flower of a woman and demand anything of her.
We had enjoyed a great deal of hot sex, and were living together, and engaged, for a year, before my awakening. The year was 1998. We got the internet for the first time.
I am 55 years old. Before 1998 finding any sexual reading material meant the Penthouse Forum section of the same magazine, or stopping at a slimey Adult Book Store, on 8 Mile Rd. If there was a FemDom section there, it had covers of Gestapo looking, leather clad woman, which did, and does, nothing for me. Bottom line? While I always knew I was a little different, I didn't put my finger on it (my submissive nature) until discovering the Internet. I was 43 years old! Guys, (my friends) didn't talk about, nor even allude to having submissive desires. Perhaps, more than anything, my dilemma was a generational thing, although I don't think it's all that different today.
But, let's get back to PeonForHer's's letter, whose response was much more eloquently stated than my own.
He said:
A) I'd convinced myself to be very flexible.

In my initial response, I said "a perfect match to one's expectations is unlikely and unrealistic". (Kind of the same thing, isn't it?)

B) Didn't pressure her at all

I will admit, initially, with all the new-found excitement of discovering why I was different, my enthusiam was at "full speed ahead" and there may have been, oh hell, there definitely was, some pressure in the beginning. But, I quickly learned the error of my ways, and so, my later response to Spankeree, included the necessity of "patience and understanding" PeonForHer said it better. "no pressure at all, but, live and learn.

C) She had that initial reaction of what woman would say no to a man who told her she could have everything her own way?

My wife loves the fact that for the past 13 years her house is clean, her laundry washed (even her delicate hand washables), her grocery shopping done, and her dishes washed. She awakens to a cup of hot tea, delivered each morning, while she catches up on the news.

I'm not a saint, nor a perfect catch (not by any means). I realize that I am more submissive than my wife is dominant. But, we love each other and are both very happy. I won't bother you with what has been checked off of my "laundry list" but I am smiling just thinking about it.

Lady Constanze: I meant no offense when calling you Miss Constanze. In fact, I thought I was being respectful. We got off on the wrong foot. I understand and respect your position here on the Boards. Perhaps it was because I was not clear but, you did misunderstand me.




SweetDommes -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (1/28/2011 8:03:57 PM)

herpet,

Your response to A - that is not the same thing as what peon said. In fact, a lot of people - even though they understand that a perfect match is unlikely and unrealistic, they still try to force that onto others ... you may not have, and yay for you - but that does not mean that what you said and what peon said are in any way equivalent.

B - The fact that you learned from your mistakes and didn't repeat them honestly makes you rather rare, in my experience (limited though that experience may be). Even when speaking about day to day life, I know many more who keep making the same mistakes than those who learn from them and stop making them ... although that may be in part due to the fact that I work in corrections.

C - Lucky for you that it worked out. But what if she were wired to be the consumate 50s housewife where SHE did the cooking, cleaning, and delivered the tea in bed? This is where most guys seem to have issues - they don't get it that just like they are wired to be (insert personal trait here), the person they want to match up with may be wired with the same trait rather than a compatable one.



Wickad -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (1/29/2011 12:44:30 AM)

(fast reply)

I grew up in a small town before the internet. I was sexually active early and rather promiscuous. A lot of this had to do with father daughter BS but there was always an element of ... hmmm, that was nice .... but something is missing. My town didn't have an adult store and all I could find at friends homes or in seedy washrooms were old copies of penthouse and playboy. In all of them and all of my experiences I never did find out what was 'missing' ... until I met a guy while in University. It finally had a name - BDSM. By then I was in my mid-twenties (I got sidetracked with the Fair for a bit) and then I had a bit of a personal crisis for 3 years and finally just before I turned 30 I was able to finally experience what had been 'missing' ... and even then I got it wrong - lol.

I can sympathize with folks that enter into relationships because they care for the person and are ignorant of what is 'missing'. Though I despise the idea of 'turning your wife' - I see it as the ultimate form of manipulation - I think sometimes with care and honesty it can be done and who am I to naysay it when it makes both parties happy. I also think that these successes that so many married-cheating submissive guys claim as probable are actually really really rare. Unfortunately, I think that most of the time you end up with the wife balking at the very idea and feeling that her husband doesn't love her for who she is. This is a horrible thing to do to someone you love. It's a hard situation, no matter how you slice it.

I think some have been a bit hard on herpet in this case. Of course, other folks may differ with my thoughts and I respect them for their thoughts. But I can recognize that sometimes it takes a long time to put a name to something ... and sometimes you take a chance and it works out. I'm glad it has worked out for him and his wife and that he's not here trying to justify why we should help him cheat on her.

Wickad



fetisheden -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (2/1/2011 6:00:21 PM)

a better question would be:

are there any real slaves?



VaguelyCurious -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (2/1/2011 6:47:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fetisheden

a better question would be:

are there any real slaves?

Yes. Yes there are.

That was easy. But I don't see how it was any better.



nmf78 -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (2/5/2011 10:00:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spankeree

My fantasy is to be with a genuine regular woman, we have a normal relationship in every way but she is dominant and assertive in the bedroom.




this is more or less what i want (though she doesn't have to be dominant and assertive all the time), most of the women here shure gave you a hard time for what you want when there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, don't compromise on what you want...



LadyConstanze -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (2/5/2011 10:27:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nmf78


this is more or less what i want (though she doesn't have to be dominant and assertive all the time), most of the women here shure gave you a hard time for what you want when there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, don't compromise on what you want...


OK, it's what you both want, all the women here don't want it, so 2 guys wanting it makes it alright and the women are really bad for not playing along. In case you're both heterosexuals, you might have a difficult time, but boys, don't compromise, being single isn't bad...



LadyPact -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (2/5/2011 11:04:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wickad

(fast reply)

I grew up in a small town before the internet. I was sexually active early and rather promiscuous. A lot of this had to do with father daughter BS but there was always an element of ... hmmm, that was nice .... but something is missing. My town didn't have an adult store and all I could find at friends homes or in seedy washrooms were old copies of penthouse and playboy. In all of them and all of my experiences I never did find out what was 'missing' ... until I met a guy while in University. It finally had a name - BDSM. By then I was in my mid-twenties (I got sidetracked with the Fair for a bit) and then I had a bit of a personal crisis for 3 years and finally just before I turned 30 I was able to finally experience what had been 'missing' ... and even then I got it wrong - lol.

I can sympathize with folks that enter into relationships because they care for the person and are ignorant of what is 'missing'. Though I despise the idea of 'turning your wife' - I see it as the ultimate form of manipulation - I think sometimes with care and honesty it can be done and who am I to naysay it when it makes both parties happy. I also think that these successes that so many married-cheating submissive guys claim as probable are actually really really rare. Unfortunately, I think that most of the time you end up with the wife balking at the very idea and feeling that her husband doesn't love her for who she is. This is a horrible thing to do to someone you love. It's a hard situation, no matter how you slice it.

I think some have been a bit hard on herpet in this case. Of course, other folks may differ with my thoughts and I respect them for their thoughts. But I can recognize that sometimes it takes a long time to put a name to something ... and sometimes you take a chance and it works out. I'm glad it has worked out for him and his wife and that he's not here trying to justify why we should help him cheat on her.

Wickad

I should trim, but I thought it might be easier for Me to just highlight.

If I remember correctly, you and I are about the same age.  What you say here makes complete sense to Me for that time frame.  So did the dated discussion (he mentioned getting the net in 1998) from herpet.

However, it's time we stopped looking at a decade (or more) ago and continually try to apply it today.  Here in 2011, I don't think we can use the "something's missing that can't be identified" reasoning anymore.  Truth is, the one thing that everybody on these forums has in common is internet access.  In addition, turn on the television, listen to the radio, go past the magazines on the rack at the supermarket.  (Shoot, there's a thread in general about a music video right now.)  A person would literally have to be living in a bubble not to get some kind of exposure to the idea of BDSM being alive and well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: nmf78
this is more or less what i want (though she doesn't have to be dominant and assertive all the time), most of the women here shure gave you a hard time for what you want when there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, don't compromise on what you want...

Except that the women here (on this particular forum) said that they didn't want it.  If it worked the other way around, how about I get you to buy into a snow cone franchise for Alaska?

It's great to want what you want.  The thing is, if you're directing your wants to people who aren't interested, it doesn't do much good.  The majority of Dominant women here are looking for (or have) a D/s dynamic.  Not somebody who considers themselves a top/bottom switch in the bedroom only.  So, just like selling snow cones to Eskimos, it's not a big shock when folks said they didn't want that.



nmf78 -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (2/5/2011 12:05:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: nmf78


this is more or less what i want (though she doesn't have to be dominant and assertive all the time), most of the women here shure gave you a hard time for what you want when there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, don't compromise on what you want...


OK, it's what you both want, all the women here don't want it, so 2 guys wanting it makes it alright and the women are really bad for not playing along. In case you're both heterosexuals, you might have a difficult time, but boys, don't compromise, being single isn't bad...



i rather be single then be in a bad relationship, if i'm really in love i would go out of my way to try to make her happy and please her but a relationship where it's allways all about her and her desires and what i want is never taken into account (or not enuff) i could never be comfortable with, i'm only submissive when i want to be and to whom i want be




quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
quote:

ORIGINAL: nmf78
this is more or less what i want (though she doesn't have to be dominant and assertive all the time), most of the women here shure gave you a hard time for what you want when there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, don't compromise on what you want...

Except that the women here (on this particular forum) said that they didn't want it. If it worked the other way around, how about I get you to buy into a snow cone franchise for Alaska?

It's great to want what you want. The thing is, if you're directing your wants to people who aren't interested, it doesn't do much good. The majority of Dominant women here are looking for (or have) a D/s dynamic. Not somebody who considers themselves a top/bottom switch in the bedroom only. So, just like selling snow cones to Eskimos, it's not a big shock when folks said they didn't want that.



i don't care, i'm not looking for anything or anybody here, i live to far away to 99 % of the people on this site anyway, i'm just giving my opinion, if that bothers you people then thats your problem not mine...



LadyPact -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (2/5/2011 1:12:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nmf78
i don't care, i'm not looking for anything or anybody here, i live to far away to 99 % of the people on this site anyway, i'm just giving my opinion, if that bothers you people then thats your problem not mine...

What does where you live have to do with it?  If you don't understand that targeting a question at a particular audience isn't going to be well received, that isn't My issue.

I don't take Myself to the "Ask A Master" board and ask how many of them would like to submit to Me.  I'd expect the male Dominants there to give Me various 'yeah, keep dreaming' replies there just like the OP got here.



LadyConstanze -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (2/5/2011 1:13:49 PM)

Funny that you aren't looking, your profile indicates you do...

And we're not bothered, we're not single and looking, but if you go around and say "I'm only submissive when I want to be and how I want to be" then this will translate to women as "If I feel like playing submissive, you should feel like playing dominant" - can you see how many dominant women that will attract?

It's good that you don't mind being single...



nmf78 -> RE: are there any real femdoms? (2/5/2011 1:23:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Funny that you aren't looking, your profile indicates you do...

And we're not bothered, we're not single and looking, but if you go around and say "I'm only submissive when I want to be and how I want to be" then this will translate to women as "If I feel like playing submissive, you should feel like playing dominant" - can you see how many dominant women that will attract?

It's good that you don't mind being single...


i'm just being realistic, 99 % of the people here live to far, hence i'm not really looking here and only come on this site when i'm bored or to look at pictures of sexy/kinky women



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