RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/14/2011 11:32:27 AM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

The existence of a God-entity is almost always associated with a group of humans who claim to represent God in this world, usually a church or suchlike. Such people are frauds.

FHP

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/14/2011 11:34:42 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

frauds

you recognize your own class. Well done willbe, well done!

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/14/2011 11:38:32 AM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

frauds

you recognize your own class. Well done willbe, well done!

Id respond if I had a clue what youre ranting about now.

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/14/2011 11:39:18 AM

tazzygirl

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lol... as usual... you are clueless.

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/14/2011 11:58:23 AM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

lol... as usual... you are clueless.

No, as always you are senseless.

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/14/2011 12:00:56 PM

tazzygirl

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poor willbe. tsk tsk

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/16/2011 6:31:52 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It also certainly wouldn't be analogous to a kill or die scenario like Harris is talking about.

An Islamist regime with nuclear weapons is a "kill or die" scenario?

(response to MM, not GS)

K.

Let me clue you in on something since it's apparently a little too detail oriented for you, conditional statements are conditional.

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/16/2011 2:43:33 PM

jack8007

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My sources say that the Church supports the Big Bang. The allegation is that there are more documented cases of Popes dying in flagrante delicto than any other comparable occupational group.

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/16/2011 2:52:00 PM

tazzygirl

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Care to share the documentation?

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/16/2011 3:04:14 PM

jack8007

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Untranscribed seminar of learned jackoffs in the corridor.

See also, http://www.ranker.com/list/the-11-craziest-unexpected-sex-related-deaths-in-history/davehoward

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/16/2011 3:12:44 PM

tazzygirl

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Ah so 2 Popes, 2 Politicians, 4 actors... yeah... I can see how the Popes lead the in flagrante delicto list.

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/16/2011 3:38:06 PM

tweakabelle

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I'm surprised no one has mentioned Pope Joan yet!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Joan

While no one has established with absolute certainty that Pope Joan actually existed, most accounts of the story I have come across attach far more credibility to the story than the Wiki entry.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/16/2011 3:41:51 PM >

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/16/2011 3:49:28 PM

tazzygirl

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LOL... wouldnt surprise me in the least!

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/17/2011 8:08:15 PM

tweakabelle

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Here, very briefly, is another argument often presented by those who wish to argue for the proposition that existence of a God-entity is immoral in itself:

Humans are incapable of dealing with the Absolute. Throughout history the worst excesses have always been authorised by an ideology that is absolute in its self-righteousness, that is 100% convinced of its own righteousness.

This is the key element that the Stalins, Hitlers and Pol Pots share with the Inquisition and today's fundamentalists (of every hue). Whenever there is a claim that any given ideology is True, sooner or later some human will interpret this as authorising any action, no matter how barbarous, in the name of that ideology.

Consequently, humans need that essential element of doubt in order to save ourselves from ourselves. By removing that safety valve of doubt, asserting a God-entity ideology opens the way to inevitable butchery and is therefore best avoided.

Any ideology that asserts it is 100% true, the Absolute truth, is therefore immoral - it will inevitably authorise immoral behaviour.

Personally I have considerable sympathy for the argument though I remain hesitant to draw the conclusion outlined above. I find the assertion that Absolutist ideologies are best avoided entirely convincing, but I am not entirely persuaded that such ideologies are immoral in themselves.

I would prefer the term inherently dangerous to inherently immoral. I do admit to being fascinated and intrigued by the ins and outs of this, by the moral conundrums this discussion reveals. It could even be a moral dilemma of the first order itself!

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/17/2011 8:19:08 PM >

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/17/2011 8:34:24 PM

eihwaz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
[...]
Whenever there is a claim that any given ideology is True, sooner or later some human will interpret this as authorising any action, no matter how barbarous, in the name of that ideology.

Consequently, humans need that essential element of doubt in order to save ourselves from ourselves. By removing that safety valve of doubt, asserting a God-entity ideology opens the way to inevitable butchery and is therefore best avoided.

Any ideology that asserts it is 100% true, the Absolute truth, is therefore immoral - it will inevitably authorise immoral behaviour.

Personally I have considerable sympathy for the argument though I remain hesitant to draw the conclusion outlined above. I find the assertion that Absolutist ideologies are best avoided entirely convincing, but I am not entirely persuaded that such ideologies are immoral in themselves.

I would prefer the term inherently dangerous to inherently immoral...

Inherently dangerous and inherently untrue, at least insofar as it is necessarily incomplete. IMO, absolutism is morally neutral, although actions taken under its auspices are frequently immoral.

The question of the perils of absolutism is a much more productive line of inquiry into the use and abuse of religion than that of the existence or nonexistence of God.

Agree entirely that doubt is essential for a humane humanity. The most robust faith is that conditioned by doubt.

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/17/2011 9:10:33 PM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eihwaz

Inherently dangerous and inherently untrue, at least insofar as it is necessarily incomplete. IMO, absolutism is morally neutral, although actions taken under its auspices are frequently immoral.

The question of the perils of absolutism is a much more productive line of inquiry into the use and abuse of religion than that of the existence or nonexistence of God.

Agree entirely that doubt is essential for a humane humanity. The most robust faith is that conditioned by doubt.

Thanks for your response.

I am having difficulty getting my head around your last sentence. To me, the existence of doubt seems to exclude the possibility of faith. At a minimum, faith and doubt make uneasy bedfellows or so it seems to me.

Is there another way of looking at this point?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/17/2011 9:14:54 PM >

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/18/2011 10:57:37 AM

eihwaz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: eihwaz
[...] Agree entirely that doubt is essential for a humane humanity. The most robust faith is that conditioned by doubt.

I am having difficulty getting my head around your last sentence. To me, the existence of doubt seems to exclude the possibility of faith. At a minimum, faith and doubt make uneasy bedfellows or so it seems to me.

Is there another way of looking at this point?

To me: Faith doesn't entail certainty. It's more of a daily working hypothesis. Doubt opens the space for faith to grow and change. A faith not open to challenge is likely to be one based on fear. It's analogous to science, which predicated on falsifiable hypotheses. By "faith" in this instance I mean a personal belief in the Divine, not adherence to a particular religion. Let me know if you want more clarification.

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/19/2011 1:16:17 PM

anthrosub

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Wow! This thread is still kicking? Who would have thought?

I've decided the Pope's message was meant to say simply not to put your eggs all in one basket. Good advice for anyone. Too bad he has to say it in such an ambivalent way so there will be a million+ ways for his message to be interpreted. But that's the church for you. As a friend once told me, the good stuff is in the Bible but you really have to dig for it.

I prefer a more straightforward approach to life (personally).

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RE: Pope Says God is Behind the Big Bang - 2/19/2011 1:40:32 PM

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