RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ

RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (Full Version)

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truckinslave -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/28/2011 9:43:20 PM)
"Even in states that haven't closed the loophole, federal law bars "occasional sellers" from selling guns to people they have reason to believe would fail background checks. " Let's enforce current law.

tazzygirl -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/28/2011 9:43:40 PM)
One code, in one state.. and you believe that is enough???

truckinslave -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/28/2011 9:44:40 PM)
I believe you missed the words "federal law".

tazzygirl -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/28/2011 9:45:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave "Even in states that haven't closed the loophole, federal law bars "occasional sellers" from selling guns to people they have reason to believe would fail background checks. " Let's enforce current law. Man walks in, wants to buy gun, flashes money... do you see a problem with the man flashing the money? Nope, all you see is the money. No law requires a private seller to ask. Dont ask, dont tell... sound familiar?

zenny -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/28/2011 9:55:46 PM)
Lulz. People still think the private sale of goods is a loophole.

Termyn8or -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/28/2011 9:56:52 PM)
FR The last person to rip me off was white skinned. I don't care what the fuck he is, I'll blow his head off. I don't care if you got a fucking green card. Now get this, an international forum is no place to discuss this. The others get jealous. Because when someone breaks into their house they are scared, I am loaded. I will kill. I am not afraid of it, and not afraid of being killed either. When these choices are taken away from me, I will kill myself. I have a lifestyle I live, it is peculiar to MY fucking country now, and if people don't like the way I'm living you just leave this long haired country boy alone. Off to discuss something worth talking about. This is not. People have their ideas, let them have them. I think over half the people I know have guns, and I wish the rest would. Well not the real assholes. But they can go cause trouble somewhere and if they try it here, they will die and they won't need a gun anymore. I will then add it to my collection. Period. A human life is only worth what it's owner thinks it is. T^T

tazzygirl -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/28/2011 10:03:04 PM)
Show me where I said you should not own a gun or protect yourself?

truckinslave -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/28/2011 10:49:41 PM)
tg, I do not see a problem with small, unregulated sales of firearms between Americans of good will. Neither does the law. For that matter, I have been known to make the case that most felons should have their right to gun ownership restored......

tazzygirl -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/28/2011 10:54:27 PM)
quote: tg, I do not see a problem with small, unregulated sales of firearms between Americans of good will. Neither does the law. For that matter, I have been known to make the case that most felons should have their right to gun ownership restored...... Define good will in this instance. And why should felons have the right to possess guns like law abiding citizens?

truckinslave -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/28/2011 11:13:48 PM)
Don't know that I can define it, and in a transaction of this sort I suppose it would come down to bearing and looks. Which is not exactly reliable. Felons. Guy is 20 years old, gets drunk, steals a car, does three years. Comes out, gets married, goes back to school, has three kids. 20 years later, deacon in his church, hasn't gotten so much as a traffic ticket in two decades, he wants to buy a little .22 to shoot some squirrels. There's a legal reason he cannot; I don't know there's a moral reason he can't.

tazzygirl -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/28/2011 11:19:08 PM)
Moral reason... he committed a crime, severe enough to be classified as a felony. Does that mean he will again? Of course not. But the likelihood is greater that he will before someone who has all you just said.. and never committed a crime before. Our gun laws are designed to prevent those who have committed crimes from doing so again with a gun in his/her hand. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. Being a responsible citizen comes with certain rights, and responsibilities.

truckinslave -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/28/2011 11:37:14 PM)
"Our gun laws are designed to prevent those who have committed crimes from doing so again with a gun in his/her hand. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that." Well, yeah. But I'd apply that sentiment in favor of the death penalty and give the car thief a break.

tazzygirl -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/28/2011 11:46:56 PM)
Anything with a value over 500 dollars is considered a felony, at least in many states. Maybe we need to start teaching kids about this when they are young to prevent "misunderstandings" later in life. Someone who is old enough, and at 20, I can say this with a certainty, is old enough to understand that drinking and driving is illegal to begin with. I do not allow the excuse... I was drunk... to invalidate any crimes afterwards.

Termyn8or -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/29/2011 2:12:29 AM)
"Show me where I said you should not own a gun or protect yourself?" Note the FR at the top. I thought that meant that the post was not particularly aimed at the last poster. When it is, I don't put the FR in. But that time I did. Do I misunderstand the use or FR ? If so let me know. Anyway, a felony conviction is not the right criterium. They could make jaywalking a felony. T^T

joether -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/29/2011 3:56:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave Guy is 20 years old, gets drunk, steals a car, does three years. Comes out, gets married, goes back to school, has three kids. 20 years later, deacon in his church, hasn't gotten so much as a traffic ticket in two decades, he wants to buy a little .22 to shoot some squirrels. There's a legal reason he cannot; I don't know there's a moral reason he can't. Devil's Advocate... Guy is 20 years old, hops the fence between Mexico and the United States of America. Never gets caught. Get married, goes to school (paid by himself), has three kids, pays taxes (you know you can voluntarily pay the IRS?), and keeps his neighborhood free of drugs and crime. He's a deacon of a church group he belongs to, hasn't gotten so much as a traffic ticket in two decades (he's a very safe driver). All he wants, is to live in the country as a citizen and be honest about it. I didn't write either law, truckin. Both 'dudes' should be able to get what they want. Sounds reasonable. Unfortunately, we have people that have ultra-strong passions against either one being able to get what they want. These people, with their passions are not based on reality or facts, but pure emotions. The 'Devil's Advocate' is meant to show the same situtation, from another perspective, and ask, do we as Americans, allow this to happen? Do we overlook the crime, against what that person has done with their lives since then?

mnottertail -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/29/2011 5:11:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave Don't know that I can define it, and in a transaction of this sort I suppose it would come down to bearing and looks. Which is not exactly reliable. Felons. Guy is 20 years old, gets drunk, steals a car, does three years. Comes out, gets married, goes back to school, has three kids. 20 years later, deacon in his church, hasn't gotten so much as a traffic ticket in two decades, he wants to buy a little .22 to shoot some squirrels. There's a legal reason he cannot; I don't know there's a moral reason he can't. He can apply to the courts to have his rights restored. If he is indeed a fine upstanding young cock like this, I see no reason why they wouldn't restore his rights. I see these things quite often holding an FFL. But just like his boosting the car, he actually has to do something to fix it, not just lay on the couch. He did something to remove his rights and he has to do something to restore them. After all, ts, you wouldn't want some lazy bastard due an allie allie in free entitlement just for hanging out would you?

popeye1250 -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/29/2011 9:43:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave Do you think you should be required to register the sale of books? Weren't invented to kill people. Instead, they were created to transfer knowledge, insight, and concepts across vast distances, without the author having to be present to explain. Firearms were created for one purpose: Military Applications. More specifically, created as arms for warfare. How many US Military soldiers do you see, brandishing a book in one hand, and a pistol in the other? This isn't the Commissar's from the Warhammer 40K Universe we are talking about. How often do you find public libraries, allowing those under the age of 16 to read 'The Story of O'? How about the latest Playboy? quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave Guns have an Amendment too, and it has in fact always been an individual right. Actually, 'Arms' have an Amendment, not Guns. All guns are considerd arms, but not all arms, are consider guns. The whole 'its an individual right' has been a propaganda used by folks from the NRA for nearly thirty years. Wasn't there a thread recently on the concept of 'stating a lie over and over as fact, will soon have people believing the lie as fact'? Back in the founding father's day, the best military weapon for the infantry was the musket. The best field artillery was a cannon. Today's best infantry weapon can fire over thirty rounds in seconds (and that's just ONE guy, not his whole platoon). The best 'field artillery' weapon is called a ICBM. You do know what an ICBM can do, right? Do you think the founding fathers would be 'ok' with US citizens carrying liters of VX? That *IS* your arguement, that arms are an individual right. The 2nd, like the other twenty-six amendments do not give someone an unlimited amount of power. The 2nd was meant to allow towns and villages to protect themselves from indians, brigands, pirates, and crime. In those days, the United States didn't have a real military power. Nor a National Guard & Coast Guard. Likewise, they didnt have Border Agents, FBI, CIA, NSA, Secret Service, US Marshals, State/County/Local Police, and Sheriffs. That REALLY is what a militia is set up to do: protect the general population with arms when a professional army isn't present. But the 2nd doesn't state just any sort of militia, but....'A well regulated militia...'. What does 'well regulated' mean, truckin? Joether, "the 2nd was meant to "allow" towns and villages to protect themselves from Indians, brigands, pirates and crime." Oh, so one day those towns and villages had to take whatever the indians, brigands, and pirates dished out but on the next day after the 2 nd amendment they were "allowed" to fight back? I can just see them on th ramparts, "Boy, you bastards just wait 'till we get that piece of 2nd amendment paper any day now!" So, one day they can't fight back, the next day they can? Our government doesn't exist to be "allowing" anyone or anything to do whatever. They don't "grant" rights to anyone. The "government" exists to serve The People not to try to dictate to them. True we do hire them to enforce our laws but many times they do a piss-poor job of that. When you vote are you voting for someone because you want them to,...."tell you what to do?" I don't. I vote for someone because I think they'll listen to their constituents and do what we tell them to do. They're the "servants" we're the Masters. They're the hired help not the management. As for Militias any three people can constitute a militia. And by "well-regulated" it would certainly mean being proficient with weapons, being familiar with the local topography, having sufficient weapons/ammunition stocks/supplies in place and having some type of rank structure in place. They don't need "permission" from any "state" to do that or to be "sanctioned" by any state, why would they? They're not the "National Guard", indeed the National Guard was modeled after the militias. The men who wore pony tails in Massachusetts in the 1700's were a LOT more differant than the men who wear pony tails in Massachusetts today! They defeated the British army for trying to tell them what to do. The ones today seem to have a "need" to be told what to do and how to think and for whatever reason seem to look to govt buearocrats to tell them what to do and how to think. But, they think they're "free." I wouldn't want them in my militia they'd turn into spies.

truckinslave -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/29/2011 10:17:11 AM)
Okay, DA. [:D] It may surprise you that I agree in principle. It's absurd to deport without recourse a man in that situation. If there are 10,000,000 illegal aliens in this country, there are 10,000,000 stories. I suspect (but don't know, admittedly. None of us really know) that a fair majority would fail the criteria I personally would set for an illegal to qualify for a fairly easy path to "permanent legal residency". I would be very loath to grant actual citizenship to people who came here illegally. My list of possible exceptions starts with combat veterans. You're willing to fight for this country, I'm a lot more impressed with the idea that you want to be an American, not just someone who sees us as an employer.

popeye1250 -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/29/2011 10:48:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave Guy is 20 years old, gets drunk, steals a car, does three years. Comes out, gets married, goes back to school, has three kids. 20 years later, deacon in his church, hasn't gotten so much as a traffic ticket in two decades, he wants to buy a little .22 to shoot some squirrels. There's a legal reason he cannot; I don't know there's a moral reason he can't. Devil's Advocate... Guy is 20 years old, hops the fence between Mexico and the United States of America. Never gets caught. Get married, goes to school (paid by himself), has three kids, pays taxes (you know you can voluntarily pay the IRS?), and keeps his neighborhood free of drugs and crime. He's a deacon of a church group he belongs to, hasn't gotten so much as a traffic ticket in two decades (he's a very safe driver). All he wants, is to live in the country as a citizen and be honest about it. I didn't write either law, truckin. Both 'dudes' should be able to get what they want. Sounds reasonable. Unfortunately, we have people that have ultra-strong passions against either one being able to get what they want. These people, with their passions are not based on reality or facts, but pure emotions. The 'Devil's Advocate' is meant to show the same situtation, from another perspective, and ask, do we as Americans, allow this to happen? Do we overlook the crime, against what that person has done with their lives since then? Joether, that wouldn't apply in that case if that guy was an illegal alien. Apples and oranges. Also, illegal aliens have to continue breaking various laws just to remain in the U.S. Just using a SS number is a federal felony, you don't have to be in possession of the actual SS card itself. If you or I did that it'd be 3-5 in Atlanta Federal Pen. And using the USPS or a wire service to send money that was obtained illegally, ("Mail Fraud, Wire Fraud") are federal felonies for which we have U.S. Citizens in federal prisons, what, illegal aliens get a "pass" on those crimes? Kind of makes you wonder who Western Union has in it's pockets in D.C. However I don't see any problem helping out a U.S. citizen for a "utefull" indescretion in his or her past. A lot of young people don't realize the errors of their ways in their teens or early twenties and they shouldn't be handicapped for life for something stupid. Even older people as long as the crime wasn't violent. We should be trying to "rehabilitate" people as well as "punish." If someone can't get a job because of a felony conviction there's much more of a chance that they'll be a burden on society or, turn to crime. So, after a time I think they should be able to expunge their records.

joether -> RE: Criminals buying guns in bulk....from AZ (1/30/2011 4:11:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Joether, "the 2nd was meant to "allow" towns and villages to protect themselves from Indians, brigands, pirates and crime." Oh, so one day those towns and villages had to take whatever the indians, brigands, and pirates dished out but on the next day after the 2 nd amendment they were "allowed" to fight back? I can just see them on th ramparts, "Boy, you bastards just wait 'till we get that piece of 2nd amendment paper any day now!" So, one day they can't fight back, the next day they can? Do you live in fantasy land? Before the United States existed, there was no 2nd Amendent, right? Afterward, the 2nd Amendment applied. During the before and after, those towns/villages defended themselves as needed. Your concept just doesn't make sense. quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Our government doesn't exist to be "allowing" anyone or anything to do whatever. They don't "grant" rights to anyone. Do you even have a vague notion of what the US Constitution was designed to do? By this statement of yours, it would be an educated guess that you dont. quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 As for Militias any three people can constitute a militia. And by "well-regulated" it would certainly mean being proficient with weapons, being familiar with the local topography, having sufficient weapons/ammunition stocks/supplies in place and having some type of rank structure in place. Are they held accountable to anything or anyone? Or are they just allowed to do what ever they want, because they have guns, ammo, are well trained, and gave each other arbitary ranks? quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 They don't need "permission" from any "state" to do that or to be "sanctioned" by any state, why would they? Now there's the difference between 'brigands' and 'a well regulated militia'. Brigands don't care what the state/goverment wishs, they're outlaws and thugs. A well regulated militia, is held accountable to the state/goverment, to which, is held accountable to the populace. quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 The ones today seem to have a "need" to be told what to do and how to think and for whatever reason seem to look to govt buearocrats to tell them what to do and how to think. But, they think they're "free." I wouldn't want them in my militia they'd turn into spies. So you rather a militia operate without principles, dicipline, regulations, and duty? And just do 'whatever they want on the spur of the moment'? In a way, you just insulted ever soldier in our military. Since, they take their orders from '...govt buearocrats...'. Or did you forget that President Obama is the Commander in Chief?

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