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Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? - 1/30/2011 5:49:44 AM   
pyroaquatic


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From: Pyroaquatica
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This question has been mulled around my head for some time now. I read through profiles saying 'safe, sane, and consensual...' or 'i am drug and disease free and also sane. you should be the same...'

I understand the drug and disease free..... but.....
Is there a mentally ill limit for you?

I can imagine that some responders would say 'well if the mental illness is properly medicated then there would be no problem'.

Yes-oh yes-I can see how proper medication could make life easier but is there ever a right dosage that lasts for very long....?(Don't answer that...)

At one time I was heavily medicated because of my own mental issues. The depression was alleviated and I could sleep more than one to three hours a night but I wanted to swim as far as I could out into the ocean as I could and drown my self. Not only was I happy to do this but I had the energy to do so which was a scary combination. I was more afraid then than I ever was not on medication.

Looking at the profession I was in involving health care I know that even with doctors not only do the dosages have to go up but so do the health risks. Tolerance... damn you tolerance.

The main reason why I pose this question is because I am getting worse... with or without medication and I fear that I will be so far gone someday that I will end up in one of those places where souls die but minds and lives press on throwing cups of gems and water into their mouths and smiling because you are made to.

So how far gone is too far gone?
Also:
Is it possible for a mentally ill dominant woman to attract a mentally sound dominant male? Does this happen? Are there happy variants?

Don't worry about me though. Over the past few weeks some pieces of my self were rubbed raw and introspection has demanded some outside input.

To live long enough would ensure the discovery of true bliss. A good reason to stay around. Plus I would be missed in many circles.

Thanks Wonderful Ladies,

Pyroaquatic...



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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 6:05:00 AM   
DarkSteven


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I've had three subs who had multiple personalities.  One of them I was not aware at the time had DID.  I am never going that route again - too draining, too unpredictable, and they were blase about things that were major hard limits for me.

I also had one sub who was childishly incomplete.  That caused some issues.

I'm not saying I will never take on a sub who is "mentally ill" (which comes in many different flavors including some I'm not aware of), but it will be a serious factor that will make me very leery.

Edited to add: dang, Pyro, I hope you get through this and find out why it's been heading south.


< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 1/30/2011 6:15:18 AM >


_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 6:07:05 AM   
ElSabio


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you can't win with mental illness. Lots in bdsm are mentally ill. That makes it hard. Run like hell from drug/alcohol abuse and mental illness.

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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 6:14:39 AM   
LadyPact


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It's absolutely not My first choice.  Anybody with a type of mental illness would literally have to prove to Me that they are at their best functioning level and show Me what they are doing to maintain that.  Even at that, the chances are very unlikely.  It's just not something at this point in My life that I'm willing to take on.  I have absolutely no interest in drama and anyone who would be bringing that into My life isn't what I'm willing to do.

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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 6:57:38 AM   
Darktra151


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Yes, a mental illness will eliminate any chance of  me being someones domme.   Forget how their mental illness would interact with your playtime and the relationship you have , Instead  think about what could happen legally. Lets say you get involved with someone who is mentally ill and the courts get involved. How do you think the courts will view you ( the sane domme) knowingly and willingly  tying  up and abusing someone who is not fully in control of their mental state. It wouldnt be pretty. It would suck even more if was a  male dom/female submissive . Is that a risk anyone is willing to take? I am sure hell not going to.

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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 7:06:36 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElSabio
you can't win with mental illness.


Not true. People recover from mental illness every day, often with the help and support of those closest to them.

I worked in that field for about 5 years, and I've seen people who you and others might describe as "basket cases" recover fully and permanently.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElSabio
Lots in bdsm are mentally ill. That makes it hard. Run like hell from drug/alcohol abuse and mental illness.


Something like 20-25% of all people will be sufficiently mental unstable at some point in their lives to qualify as "mentally ill". The overwhelming majority of them will recover, given time and support.

The kind of ill-informed, sensationalist statements you're making do nothing to help the situation, and merely reinforce the prejudice against those with mental illness. Better would be to ask "what are they doing about their illness?" - if they are taking steps to sort themselves out then the chances are that they will make it, and recover. Whether you choose to become involved with such a person is your call, of course, but it's not necessarily a hard-limit for everyone.

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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 7:07:26 AM   
ElSabio


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OK, my advice is let the other guy take the mentally ill. Not me.

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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 7:09:35 AM   
LadyNTrainer


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Depends on the person and their condition. I don't consider alternative brain wiring to necessarily be "illness". I do expect my partners to have their shit together, to see a doctor and take any medications they may require in a responsible manner. Not being able to do that would be a deal breaker for me. The condition itself would not be.

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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 7:16:38 AM   
ErikaTate1


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The Universe sends Us people for all sorts of reasons and in all seasons.... Would We choose in the same fashion.... probably not.... but that's not the way of the world.
I have been touched by those who are more challenged than others and they have truly been gifts.
Be brave and courageous. I wish you Joy and Magic.

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)
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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 7:48:54 AM   
Madame4a


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For the most part, yes, it would be a limit for me... I've been in situations similar and won't do it again.

The more complicated answer is that it depends on several things... but I don't have the patience for a long response this morning.

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Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 7:49:18 AM   
lizi


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This is hard for me to answer but it's something I have dealt with so I feel compelled to throw in my two cents. It would depend on the person, how I felt about that person, and the length of the relationship. If I had checklists in front of me with personal traits and I had to choose someone, I'd not pick someone who had mental illness on that check list. If I was with someone and loved them I'd accept the mental (or physical) illness and try to learn to deal with it. If I were with someone for a length of time, didn't love them but wanted to keep the relationship, I'd try to deal with the mental illness. Btw, I have clinical depression. At one time it was crippling, I was medicated heavily for 15 years (various things, long story, tolerances and all that), and have been mostly depression free and off meds for 3 years now which I credit strangely enough to exercise. So, it's a road I've walked.

I feel that all you can do really is do concentrate on doing whatever it is that you can for yourself and find yourself worthy enough to pursue that goal with a vengence. Hard to do when you're depressed...I know...when I didn't care about it I remembered that my kids did and knowing they were there enabled me to push harder than I would have on my own. Do what you can for yourself and present whoever that is to others and see what happens. Its really no good to assume that you're damaged goods that no one wants. You may find someone who has a mental illness herself or has it in the family and is ecstatic to find someone who understands it. Yes, you have a condition that isn't exactly conducive to finding a partner, but once you believe that it'll never happen for you, it won't. You are a human being, you have a set of unique qualities, there are pros and cons, everyone else is the same. Go forth with what you have and see what is out there.

I'd like to close with an example. I was dating a guy for a few months that I really liked. We hit it off well, liked each other in many different ways, enjoyed doing things. I was feeling very positive about our partnership. Then winter came and I found out that he had SAD. I was ok with it and wanted to continue things with each other, after all, I have depression. I wasn't scared away. He'd come home from work and sleep till the next day, he never called much anymore, when he did talk it was short and bland. I was still ok, I understood what was going on. We go from this starting at the end of Oct to the end of Dec- he finally finds at that point that he feels horrible enough to go to the Dr. for the annual meds. 2 freaking months later, he finally gets help. 2 entire months that I sat home alone and I can't even imagine what his kids went through. Only to have him discontinue the meds after about 3 weeks when he felt better in Jan.

What did I learn from that? That no matter how much I liked him, my future with him was going to be subject to his illness which he wouldn't do squat to manage effectively. That I obviously mattered little, that his family mattered little, and he was preoccupied with not being 'weak' and resorting to taking meds   - good God. In the mean time he would spend all his time in bed. If he had tried to do what he could to get better, I'd have respected that. I was comfortable with the whole thing, I was ready to deal with his illness and compensate for it, but I couldn't deal with him doing nothing until he hit rock bottom and then throwing the help out the window before he was stabilized. 

I found out later that this is what he did every year, it was not an isolated thing. He'd wait too long because he didn't like to take medication. I understand that some people feel this way, it's their perogative- I personally feel that medication can be a positive thing depending on the circumstance. In his case the meds helped with no side effects. When he'd finally get the meds he'd get better, but then he'd stop the meds too soon and he'd get depressed again- this time the depression would last until the days got longer and he felt better. He knew it was a substandard approach to his illness and did it anyway, repeatedly, year after year. I found him special enough that his particular illness would have been a hurdle if he'd dealt with it effectively, it was not a dealbreaker until I realized that it was a cycle I'd have to repeat with him endlessly and at that point I had better things to do with my time. I know this is not the same level of illness that you are describing, my own illness is closer to what you are dealing with.

So....go try to be the best you that you can be. I'm very sorry it's been a hard road for you and I can empathize. Your primary goal should be yourself,  living your life well. As a secondary concern you can work on what you have to offer someone such that it is. Don't assume that what you have to offer isn't good enough, because you don't know that. Don't stop looking, you may find someone who is familiar with what you are going through and willing to work with you. I wish you the best 

< Message edited by lizi -- 1/30/2011 7:57:34 AM >

(in reply to pyroaquatic)
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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 7:58:58 AM   
SexyBossyBBW


Posts: 1693
Joined: 2/25/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElSabio
you can't win with mental illness.


Not true. People recover from mental illness every day, often with the help and support of those closest to them.

I worked in that field for about 5 years, and I've seen people who you and others might describe as "basket cases" recover fully and permanently.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElSabio
Lots in bdsm are mentally ill. That makes it hard. Run like hell from drug/alcohol abuse and mental illness.


Something like 20-25% of all people will be sufficiently mental unstable at some point in their lives to qualify as "mentally ill". The overwhelming majority of them will recover, given time and support.

The kind of ill-informed, sensationalist statements you're making do nothing to help the situation, and merely reinforce the prejudice against those with mental illness. Better would be to ask "what are they doing about their illness?" - if they are taking steps to sort themselves out then the chances are that they will make it, and recover. Whether you choose to become involved with such a person is your call, of course, but it's not necessarily a hard-limit for everyone.
I agree with this.    \
I guess the answer to the OP, as in all things, it depends on many other factors about the person being considered.

quote:

pyroaquatic
The main reason why I pose this question is because I am getting worse... with or without medication and I fear that I will be so far gone someday that I will end up in one of those places where souls die but minds and lives press on throwing cups of gems and water into their mouths and smiling because you are made to
Not an easy way to live, to be sure, and am sorry you're living with these burdens.  However, I feel it's very important to follow the advice and take the prescriptions, while being communicative with your health care professionals, so they can adjust things as needed.    M

(in reply to RapierFugue)
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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 8:06:04 AM   
DarkSteven


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lizi, I'd like to comment on your post.  You were okay with his illness, but not the fact that he did not treat it properly.  Does that sound accurate?

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to SexyBossyBBW)
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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 8:38:03 AM   
lizi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElSabio
you can't win with mental illness.


Not true. People recover from mental illness every day, often with the help and support of those closest to them.

I worked in that field for about 5 years, and I've seen people who you and others might describe as "basket cases" recover fully and permanently.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElSabio
Lots in bdsm are mentally ill. That makes it hard. Run like hell from drug/alcohol abuse and mental illness.



Something like 20-25% of all people will be sufficiently mental unstable at some point in their lives to qualify as "mentally ill". The overwhelming majority of them will recover, given time and support.

The kind of ill-informed, sensationalist statements you're making do nothing to help the situation, and merely reinforce the prejudice against those with mental illness. Better would be to ask "what are they doing about their illness?" - if they are taking steps to sort themselves out then the chances are that they will make it, and recover. Whether you choose to become involved with such a person is your call, of course, but it's not necessarily a hard-limit for everyone.



Awesome answer RF to a pile of crap. There are a lot of misconceptions about mental illness, it infuriates me when someone perpetuates sensationalist BS instead of seeking to educate themselves.

I'd like to add to the excellent information RF posted. Many 'mental' illnesses result from biological problems. The resulting problems with emotions and  mood are there because there are defective neurotransmitters and blood chemistry amongst other things. Those people who do respond to medication (or other things) can make a full recovery- they're not necessarily going to be like the old movies where crazy people were locked up in the attic screaming out obscenities.

Depression is extremely common, as common a disease as diabetes- the  statistics are around 7% of the population for both of these diseases depending on the study being cited. That sounds like a low number but think about how many people you know that are diabetic. Of course the severity of the disease is also a concern as it varies from person to person.

The National Institute of Health provides the statistic that  "An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year."  http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-numbers-count-mental-disorders-in-america/index.shtml 

Anyone anywhere is entitled to their preferences in body size, hair color, mental/physical health, etc,  and they should pursue those preferences to find what makes them happy. Pyro, you may be perfect for someone. Think about those statistics I put up there and how many people out there are familiar with what you are dealing with. It isn't everyone's cup of tea but isn't that a problem for everyone? I'm not young anymore and I have some extra weight, I'm off of many lists because of that. I did however find a man who was willing to accept me as I am -which is mentally ill. I've been healthy for quite a while but that may change and he knows it and as far as I can say he's prepared to deal with it.


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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 8:47:53 AM   
lizi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

lizi, I'd like to comment on your post.  You were okay with his illness, but not the fact that he did not treat it properly.  Does that sound accurate?


Yes, that is accurate.

I was not only ok with his illness, I was pretty familiar with it. I knew what he was bringing to the table and I was prepared in a well informed way to deal with it and I honestly thought I could. I was not able to deal with the fact that he opted to settle for what I viewed as a substandard life and therefore a substandard relationship. He could do things to help himself and refused to do it. I can't work with that.

I was willing to accept limitations and deal with the illness, I was not prepared to deal with self-imposed limitations. I respect people who help themselves and as RapierFugue pointed out, if you want to help yourself, you generally do. If you refuse help, you are shooting yourself in the foot and will have never have everything you can to offer yourself or anyone else.

I rejected his approach to the illness, not the illness.

*Edited to add:  Thank you DS for asking that so I could clarify.

< Message edited by lizi -- 1/30/2011 9:03:43 AM >

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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 9:00:50 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic
At one time I was heavily medicated because of my own mental issues. The depression was alleviated and I could sleep more than one to three hours a night

The main reason why I pose this question is because I am getting worse...

What are those issues? Do you have any chronic infection? (You may cmail me on the other side.)

I cannot advise you on how to get more than one to three hours of sleep. There are herbs ... but whether or not they are efficacious I cannot say.

Is the lack of sleep getting worse? Because of the energy provided by the medication?

My - for the most part purely theoretical - considerations and observations incline me to regard depression as one characteristic of a genuine submissive and in my eyes not a mental illness. (Which is not to say that all depressed people are submissives.)

So if you are a genuine submissive, you might consider to not take medication, but to endure the depressed condition. (If you are a true slave on the other hand, you are in serious shit if you are depressed.)

(in reply to pyroaquatic)
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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 9:34:12 AM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi
I rejected his approach to the illness, not the illness.


This, for me as well. I can deal with a partner who has a medically challenging condition. I can not deal with a partner who manages that condition less than responsibly.

I will not be a toddler mommy; I require adult partners who can keep their shit together and be responsible for taking care of themselves on a basic level. That includes being self supporting and being responsible for taking care of their health needs in a proactive way. I can not be the Mommy and take care of the basic life needs of another adult; that is a total deal breaker for me.

So yes, someone with a mental illness who sought appropriate treatment and took the prescribed medications or did the therapist visits would be okay with me, even if they had rough patches that they needed extra love and support to get through. Someone with a mental illness who neglected their own care or needed me to constantly remind them to take care of themselves, no way. I can handle mental illness a lot better than I can handle irresponsibility or childlike needs for caretaking in an adult partner.

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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 9:37:48 AM   
SexyBossyBBW


Posts: 1693
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
My - for the most part purely theoretical - considerations and observations incline me to regard depression as one characteristic of a genuine submissive and in my eyes not a mental illness. (Which is not to say that all depressed people are submissives.)
Say what???   This does not really make sense, at all Rule.

quote:

So if you are a genuine submissive, you might consider to not take medication, but to endure the depressed condition. (If you are a true slave on the other hand, you are in serious shit if you are depressed.)
So, in your mind, depression is the perfect condition to be in, as a submissive, but problematic if one is a slave?

Why don't I recall your being this off, in a previous life?   Is the infection you refer to, in your brain?   If so, I'm trully sorry.    M

(in reply to Rule)
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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 9:58:44 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

lizi, I'd like to comment on your post.  You were okay with his illness, but not the fact that he did not treat it properly.  Does that sound accurate?



I think that would be my position. It might not be the fact of the illness that was relevant to me, but his approach to the illness.

I'd rule out an active alcoholic, and one with a sloppy approach to recovery, but not one in recovery and serious about his recovery.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being pi... - 1/30/2011 10:14:05 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
My - for the most part purely theoretical - considerations and observations incline me to regard depression as one characteristic of a genuine submissive and in my eyes not a mental illness.


On the one hand - the entire weight of clinical research, learning and understanding of mental health issues.

On the other, your incorrect assumptions.

Hmmmmm ... it's a tough call, but I'm going to go with the clinical folk on this one.


(in reply to Rule)
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