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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 8:40:35 AM

littlewonder

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consent and yes it absolutely is a choice.

Every single thing I do every single day is a choice. Life is a choice.

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 8:51:04 AM

txurinal

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Yes, being a slave is part of one' internal makeup. Slavery in BDMS relationships is a very wide range. It goes from sub in the bedroom to one totally controlled. When i was owned the last thing i consented to was to become a 24/7 slave. Once i "consented" to that, i would no longer have any choices to make of any kind. It is really hard to explain except that once i became a fulltime owned slave, i basically gave up my freedom. As a slave i had many rules, regulations and a very structured life. i was happy with every part of each day planned for me. i was happy giving up a lot of things i had enjoyed. i was happy turning over my paycheck to my MASTERS. i was happy being dependent on them for food and shelter. i was happy being totally controlled, being used as an object, being treated not as a human but as a slave. But again that is my makeup and mindset and i am probably one of the few that falls on that side of the slavery scale

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 8:55:05 AM

osf

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I don't think anyone is enslaved to another in the sense we speak of.

It's an enslavement to their own need that causes them to seek another to use that need to their mutual benefit

but I'm not of a slave mentality so my knowledge is not first hand, just observation

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 9:02:58 AM

salemartist

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President Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation on January 1, 1863. The proclamation declared "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free."

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 9:59:32 AM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SourandSweet

People who call themselves slaves in a BDSM sense may say that they can't leave, but yes, they actually can legally end that relationship, even if they never would.

Yep, that was the definition I went by. A 'tradtional' slave has no choice in his or her life. A BDSM slave is likewise, except that he or she retains the most important choice of all - to ditch the condition of slavery.

However, however . . . I remember making the same point a while ago and was presented with the idea that it's possible to get so deeply immersed in one's consciousness of BDSM slavery that one effectively cannot leave it. I haven't felt that, nor anything anywhere near it, but I'm told that others have.

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 10:12:05 AM

SourandSweet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

However, however . . . I remember making the same point a while ago and was presented with the idea that it's possible to get so deeply immersed in one's consciousness of BDSM slavery that one effectively cannot leave it. I haven't felt that, nor anything anywhere near it, but I'm told that others have.

I've heard this before too, but if their dom said that the next day he was going to - oh I don't know - chop their foot off, move another sub in, make them drink cheap wine, have them star in a snuff movie or something - and this was more than they could deal with then what's to make them stay other than themself?

I understand the theory of Internal Enslavement, but I also feel that ultimately our biological need to survive will kick in when there is a serious threat to our well-being. Also, I think maybe those who say that have just never been in a position where they've had to make the choice to leave, hence are still actually choosing to stay. And where a person has that choice (whether utilised or not) which they do have in western law, they cannot (to my pedantic mind) be a slave.

:-)

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 10:24:09 AM

ThundersCry

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a slave has two choices....
you OBEY or you....don`t.

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 10:29:49 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

I understand the theory of Internal Enslavement, but I also feel that ultimately our biological need to survive will kick in when there is a serious threat to our well-being

Not always. There are those who actually thrive on the adrenaline that kicks in when faced with the possibility of death or extreme harm. Not everyone chooses to flee in those situations; some of us, actually encourage it.

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 10:38:28 AM

SourandSweet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

I understand the theory of Internal Enslavement, but I also feel that ultimately our biological need to survive will kick in when there is a serious threat to our well-being

Not always. There are those who actually thrive on the adrenaline that kicks in when faced with the possibility of death or extreme harm. Not everyone chooses to flee in those situations; some of us, actually encourage it.

Fair point. There are of course exceptions to every rule, but it doesn't negate the fact that you could leave if you chose to if you live in a western society.

:-)

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 10:40:38 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

could leave if you chose to

Of course it doesn't. I hold firmly that the only difference between the two institutions mentioned was that of choice. I was simply pointing out that you comment was not wholely accurate.

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 11:05:22 AM

SourandSweet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

could leave if you chose to

Of course it doesn't. I hold firmly that the only difference between the two institutions mentioned was that of choice. I was simply pointing out that you comment was not wholely accurate.

And I thank you sincerely for doing so. When working I do sometimes send posts without first analysing 'wot I wrote'.

:-)

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 11:29:08 AM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SourandSweet

I'm rather pedantic.

To me a slave is someone who is forced into that position. They have no choice in the matter and there is no escape. People who call themselves slaves in a BDSM sense may say that they can't leave, but yes, they actually can legally end that relationship, even if they never would.

People can call themselves what they want, but the way I see it unless you're locked in someones cellar with no communication to the outside world there are only subs.

This echos my view as well.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 2/5/2011 11:30:24 AM >

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 11:32:24 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

understand the theory of Internal Enslavement, but I also feel that ultimately our biological need to survive will kick in when there is a serious threat to our well-being. Also, I think maybe those who say that have just never been in a position where they've had to make the choice to leave, hence are still actually choosing to stay. And where a person has that choice (whether utilised or not) which they do have in western law, they cannot (to my pedantic mind) be a slave.

Fear is a powerful motivator. There are various forms of fear. Some forms leave no ability to make a decision. To me, your position is a bit too simplistic.

ETA ~

You do realize what you are saying by the use of the words "pedantic mind" isnt a good thing, yes?

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 2/5/2011 11:37:01 AM >

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 11:36:53 AM

SourandSweet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

understand the theory of Internal Enslavement, but I also feel that ultimately our biological need to survive will kick in when there is a serious threat to our well-being. Also, I think maybe those who say that have just never been in a position where they've had to make the choice to leave, hence are still actually choosing to stay. And where a person has that choice (whether utilised or not) which they do have in western law, they cannot (to my pedantic mind) be a slave.

Fear is a powerful motivator. There are various forms of fear. Some forms leave no ability to make a decision. To me, your position is a bit too simplistic.

I understand your point, but fear being the main factor for staying would mean that the relationship was an abusive one, which in my view is a world away from BDSM.

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 11:37:51 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SourandSweet

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

understand the theory of Internal Enslavement, but I also feel that ultimately our biological need to survive will kick in when there is a serious threat to our well-being. Also, I think maybe those who say that have just never been in a position where they've had to make the choice to leave, hence are still actually choosing to stay. And where a person has that choice (whether utilised or not) which they do have in western law, they cannot (to my pedantic mind) be a slave.

Fear is a powerful motivator. There are various forms of fear. Some forms leave no ability to make a decision. To me, your position is a bit too simplistic.

I understand your point, but fear being the main factor for staying would mean that the relationship was an abusive one, which in my view is a world away from BDSM.

Fear doesnt have to mean abuse.

See above for my edited post.

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 11:40:59 AM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveOwnerDave

She could very easily find a different Master. I could just as easily find a new slave. We each do not.
One can say finding a new person would be difficult. One could say We are "stuck in Our roles". One could say most anything, but the reality is We made commitments, and have become those commitments.

QFT. Nicely stated.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 11:42:17 AM

SourandSweet

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I'm curious. How then how would you define someone not being able to leave a relationship due to fear?

Also I'm really not sure what you mean by your comment about me being pedantic? We all have our own characters, and that's an aspect of mine. I'm neither proud of it nor ashamed of it. It's been useful at times, and damned annoying it times. It's just part of who I am.

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 11:46:05 AM

osf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThundersCry

a slave has two choices....
you OBEY or you....don`t.

you obey or you leave

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 11:48:40 AM

sexyred1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

I don't think anyone is enslaved to another in the sense we speak of.

It's an enslavement to their own need that causes them to seek another to use that need to their mutual benefit

but I'm not of a slave mentality so my knowledge is not first hand, just observation

To further complicate the consensual issue, sometimes, you can choose to be with someone who you then become enslaved to in an emotional sense since that person fulfills a need that others cannot.

But then, even when the health of that relationship ceases to exist, you can still feel emotionally enslaved, so to my mind, that takes the concept from being consensual to non-consensual in that you may not want to feel enslaved any longer, but you do feel that way.

The consensual part is what you choose to do with that feeling; end it all or keep feeling enslaved, even if you no longer want to feel that way.

And yes, that is the condition of internal slavery. No one is stopping you from leaving but yourself.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 2/5/2011 11:51:24 AM >

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RE: What is the difference between a slave and a slave? - 2/5/2011 11:50:46 AM

osf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

I don't think anyone is enslaved to another in the sense we speak of.

It's an enslavement to their own need that causes them to seek another to use that need to their mutual benefit

but I'm not of a slave mentality so my knowledge is not first hand, just observation

To further complicate the consensual issue, sometimes, you can choose to be with someone who you then become enslaved to in an emotional sense since that person fulfills a need that others cannot.

But then, even when the health of that relationship ceases to exist, you can still feel emotionally enslaved, so to my mind, that takes the concept from being consensual to non-consensual in that you may not want to feel enslaved any longer, but you do feel that way.

The consensual part is what you choose to do with that feeling; end it all or keep feeling enslaved, even if you no longer want to feel that way.

of human bondage

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