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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/20/2011 10:07:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

It creates a power dynamic which later has to be overcome.

I mean, it's just so crazy when people talk like that, like there are no exceptions and there is a set formula to all this that we should follow. Isn't it?

I have to admit that it has never occurred to me that there are men out there that think that expressing an interest in a woman creates a power dynamic. I find that disturbing in more ways than one. Is that why so many subs trot out that tired old cliche, "I'm a sub but not your sub"? I've always hated that phrase, it's seems so obvious that it should never have to be said, but perhaps this instance is an example of why that phrase is needed.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/20/2011 10:20:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

The only thing which I would question the objective validity of is the idea that in the 21st century people are still thinking in terms of what men and women “should” do, least of all in a lifestyle which can't see typical through a telescope. Doesn't that strike you as terrifically sad?

Yup. That's why I question people who making sweeping statements like

quote:

It creates a power dynamic which later has to be overcome.

I mean, it's just so crazy when people talk like that, like there are no exceptions and there is a set formula to all this that we should follow. Isn't it?

Firstly, I was referring to the gender inequality inherent in that statement, rather than anything else. Secondly, I'm not saying that other people should operate according to my theories (or anyone else's within reason) - do whatever makes you happy. I was just making an observation. I find that bouncing ideas around in intelligent company is the best way to perfect an idea about human nature - sitting around agreeing with myself can only take me so far.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
I have to admit that it has never occurred to me that there are men out there that think that expressing an interest in a woman creates a power dynamic. I find that disturbing in more ways than one. Is that why so many subs trot out that tired old cliche, "I'm a sub but not your sub"? I've always hated that phrase, it's seems so obvious that it should never have to be said, but perhaps this instance is an example of why that phrase is needed.

Cali

I'm curious as to how you drew the conclusion in bold. What brought that thought on?

_____________________________

I speak not of The Way, but only My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

I'm male. I know it sounds female. Work with me.

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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/20/2011 10:23:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
I have to admit that it has never occurred to me that there are men out there that think that expressing an interest in a woman creates a power dynamic.

To be fair, that's not exactly what I think. What I think is that when a person who defaults to submissive thinking and a person who defaults to dominant thinking come together in any way whatsoever then the "power dynamic" creates itself without anyone needing to do anything special.

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 2/20/2011 10:24:16 AM >

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to CalifChick)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/20/2011 10:41:36 AM

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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

I have to admit that it has never occurred to me that there are men out there that think that expressing an interest in a woman creates a power dynamic. I find that disturbing in more ways than one. Is that why so many subs trot out that tired old cliche, "I'm a sub but not your sub"? I've always hated that phrase, it's seems so obvious that it should never have to be said, but perhaps this instance is an example of why that phrase is needed.

Cali

On the other side of the kneel, I've at the stage when I've wanted to head into the privacy of my car and smoke a cigar when I'm in the situation that I have to say more than once: "Aye, I am a Master just NOT your Master!" when some sub-like female wants to attach herself to me. Usually in an inappropriate moment or manner. Crikey, I may have a collar or two empty but please, I chose the slave. She does not choose me (she can but try by begging though. - Who knows after a complete inspection of the goods and a good interrogatio... Erm Interview, she may be successful).

_____________________________

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Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to CalifChick)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/20/2011 10:43:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
I have to admit that it has never occurred to me that there are men out there that think that expressing an interest in a woman creates a power dynamic.
To be fair, that's not exactly what I think. What I think is that when a person who defaults to submissive thinking and a person who defaults to dominant thinking come together in any way whatsoever then the "power dynamic" creates itself without anyone needing to do anything special.

i couldn't agree with you more leadership527

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/20/2011 11:42:29 AM

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From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
I have to admit that it has never occurred to me that there are men out there that think that expressing an interest in a woman creates a power dynamic.
To be fair, that's not exactly what I think. What I think is that when a person who defaults to submissive thinking and a person who defaults to dominant thinking come together in any way whatsoever then the "power dynamic" creates itself without anyone needing to do anything special.

I wasn't thinking that of you, Jeff. I was referring to the OP, who seems to think that.

I think I agree with you, if I'm understanding what you're saying. Unless you're saying that the dynamic creates itself in an instant upon first expression of interest, then I don't.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/20/2011 12:12:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
On this whole topic I'm going to go with... "You miss 100% of the shots you never take." idea.

This.

Fortune favors the bold, and that goes for both genders. I find it equally ludicrous for a member of either gender to put themselves 'above' expressing interest. In my case, you would most likely have to write me first (not that most people would want to. I am not most people's cup of proverbial tea). I currently work 6 days a week. I don't have a lot of time and energy to fart around CM writing messages that will never get seen amongst the noise. I have a list of screen names and half of them will quit CM before I have the confluence of both energy and enough spare time that I feel like I can spend the time writing messages that won't get read.

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/20/2011 12:42:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
I think I agree with you, if I'm understanding what you're saying. Unless you're saying that the dynamic creates itself in an instant upon first expression of interest, then I don't.

No, I'm saying the dynamic creates itself the first moment two people become aware of each other at the subconscious level. But, to be fair, remember that I'm not using the same definitions of "dominance" and "submission" so the "dynamic" that I'm talking about probably isn't what you're thinking about.

No, I do NOT think that I could walk up to some random woman and say, "Blow me baby" and she'd fall trembling to my knees -- even if she was submissive by default. I'd mostly expect to get laughed at or slapped in that situation.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to CalifChick)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/20/2011 2:43:59 PM

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From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

No, I do NOT think that I could walk up to some random woman and say, "Blow me baby" and she'd fall trembling to my knees -- even if she was submissive by default. I'd mostly expect to get laughed at or slapped in that situation.

This calls for field research. Lots of it. With video.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/20/2011 2:47:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

Firstly, I was referring to the gender inequality inherent in that statement, rather than anything else. Secondly, I'm not saying that other people should operate according to my theories (or anyone else's within reason) - do whatever makes you happy. I was just making an observation. I find that bouncing ideas around in intelligent company is the best way to perfect an idea about human nature - sitting around agreeing with myself can only take me so far.

On that I agree with you whole-heartedly. If I take what you say above at face-value, then I would suggest checking your phrasing in the future. A theory is not a proven idea and therefore should not be spoken of in definative terms such as "It creates a dynamic that has to be overcome". "I have noticed that whenever I approach the woman, the power dynamic is plagued from the get-go. Have others noticed this? I believe doing this may set up an inherent problem" is more, in my humble experience, apt to convay that the aforementioned is a theory and not a fact.

A statement of fact and one of theory are presented and received differently. My .02

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
I have to admit that it has never occurred to me that there are men out there that think that expressing an interest in a woman creates a power dynamic.

I've heard it before. Mostly online. I want to say that I've run into once or twice in person and never with someone that I would recamend getting into a power dynamic with but that could well be my memory playing tricks with me.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Palliata)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/20/2011 2:49:03 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

No, I do NOT think that I could walk up to some random woman and say, "Blow me baby" and she'd fall trembling to my knees -- even if she was submissive by default. I'd mostly expect to get laughed at or slapped in that situation.

This calls for field research. Lots of it. With video.

Cali

What she said. Only try not to get hurt.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to CalifChick)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/20/2011 2:55:01 PM

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Well my, aren't you two all supportive and whatnot of my growth as a dom. I feel emboldened already.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/20/2011 3:02:41 PM

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I live to serve...

*runs away before she gets pelted with rotten fruit for the bad joke*

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/20/2011 4:19:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata
The only thing which I would question the objective validity of is the idea that in the 21st century people are still thinking in terms of what men and women “should” do, least of all in a lifestyle which can't see typical through a telescope. Doesn't that strike you as terrifically sad?

I don't find it sad. I find it practical. I'm not basing My comments on the fact that it happens to be males who are the ones who have the disadvantage at the numbers game. If there were more kinky women than there were men, I'd be giving the same advice with the genders reversed. Just the same way that I do when speaking to couples who want to be poly and are trying to find an addition to their household. There are more couples looking than those who are willing to join an established household. It's simple supply and demand.

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 2/20/2011 4:20:33 PM >

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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/20/2011 8:01:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

.... I'm not basing My comments on the fact that it happens to be males who are the ones who have the disadvantage at the numbers game. .....

We males are out numbered?????? ... (looks to my left... looks to my right)..... Shit your right!!!!!

But... I am actually ok with those odds *grin*

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/21/2011 8:37:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata
The only thing which I would question the objective validity of is the idea that in the 21st century people are still thinking in terms of what men and women “should” do, least of all in a lifestyle which can't see typical through a telescope. Doesn't that strike you as terrifically sad?

I don't find it sad. I find it practical. I'm not basing My comments on the fact that it happens to be males who are the ones who have the disadvantage at the numbers game. If there were more kinky women than there were men, I'd be giving the same advice with the genders reversed. Just the same way that I do when speaking to couples who want to be poly and are trying to find an addition to their household. There are more couples looking than those who are willing to join an established household. It's simple supply and demand.

That I find more acceptable. I took it more as a traditional take on gender roles - the man should approach because he's the man and that's the way it's meant to be, which was where I found it a bit sad

_____________________________

I speak not of The Way, but only My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

I'm male. I know it sounds female. Work with me.

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/21/2011 9:41:54 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

Interesting perspectives all around. Not a lot to respond to, though as to my reasons I'm not sure how much closer to an explanation I can come – in my experience it has come out that things go more smoothly and effectively if, as someone said, a dom shines and sees what that light attracts, and my understanding of human nature tends to confirm my experience. If your experiences are different, that perhaps points to a difference between our perceptions or our approach. Certainly I make no claim to the perfect example of either

.

What I find interesting in this, is that it's very akin to the world of birds. Males are the most colourful, they display and show what they have to offer, the females then choose. In reverse, in human nature the female is expected to display.

quote:

The only thing which I would question the objective validity of is the idea that in the 21st century people are still thinking in terms of what men and women “should” do, least of all in a lifestyle which can't see typical through a telescope. Doesn't that strike you as terrifically sad?

If that were true, maybe. But I don't believe that has been suggested, but rather that if you restrict yourself to only one form of contact from another then you are in effect halving your pool and to approach people as human beings, rather than thinking of them as the end dynamic.

If you are having issues with contacting women who then go on to create a power dynamic that your not happy with, then maybe you need to evaluate the type of women you are approaching?

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Palliata)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/21/2011 10:21:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
What I find interesting in this, is that it's very akin to the world of birds. Males are the most colourful, they display and show what they have to offer, the females then choose. In reverse, in human nature the female is expected to display.

Oh really? ~laughs~ In general it is women who are the choosers and men who are the pursuers (speaking from an anthropological viewpoint). And I would venture to say that men work quite hard to put their "status" on display. That's what sports cars and the like are all about. Women select on the basis of physical appearance and social status (not in that order) -- at least those are the latest actual tests (as opposed to surveys) which I have seen.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/21/2011 2:26:35 PM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
What I find interesting in this, is that it's very akin to the world of birds. Males are the most colourful, they display and show what they have to offer, the females then choose. In reverse, in human nature the female is expected to display.

Oh really? ~laughs~ In general it is women who are the choosers and men who are the pursuers (speaking from an anthropological viewpoint). And I would venture to say that men work quite hard to put their "status" on display. That's what sports cars and the like are all about. Women select on the basis of physical appearance and social status (not in that order) -- at least those are the latest actual tests (as opposed to surveys) which I have seen.

Heh... sports cars are penis extensions.

Honestly, sports cars are to impress other men

... it's also about what you have.

I am not disagreeing with you. But the OP made the point of suggesting that all a dominant has to do is 'shine' and those birds come flocking. In birds, this is the case, but they do the choosing.

As humans, women do the choosing, but in the long run they lose out once they have chosen. In the bird world, they would just move on to the next best thing unless the male keeps performing by shining, and that takes hard work. You can't just expect to just sit back or you find the flock just passes on by.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/21/2011 2:28:12 PM

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The stupid chicken dance in a nutshell:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_100186/mpage_1/key_stupid%252Cchicken%252Cdance/tm.htm#100186

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to RCdc)

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