RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn?

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/14/2011 7:59:03 AM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePeripatetic

For me, I learned how to be cognizant of what a Femdom wants by being in a relationship with one.

This. I find the idea of someone basing how they should behave around me on what they've seen in porn to be really creepy.

So does this go for het F/m BDSM porn, which most sub guys watch exclusively?

Akasha

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/14/2011 8:16:53 AM

VaguelyCurious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

So does this go for het F/m BDSM porn, which most sub guys watch exclusively?

Akasha

Absolutely.

It's like mummyman said - porn is *not* a role-model. If they want to watch it to get off that's fine by me, but if they're watching it looking for tips instead of asking the living, breathing woman they're with then they are not for me.

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/14/2011 8:41:21 AM

81song

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The whole thing with porn is one thing then there is a real world. A Domme is one person I would like to see in real then porn and see what she has as far as likes and dislikes. I have seen online porn that has to do with male but it is not a turn on for me but it is something maybe to learn of possibility s I guess but that's it. But maybe your last sentence said in part what you are looking for, hot looking males

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/14/2011 8:48:49 AM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 81song

The whole thing with porn is one thing then there is a real world. A Domme is one person I would like to see in real then porn and see what she has as far as likes and dislikes. I have seen online porn that has to do with male but it is not a turn on for me but it is something maybe to learn of possibility s I guess but that's it. But maybe your last sentence said in part what you are looking for, hot looking males

I wonder if men are uncomfortable looking at attractive men. I reference the m/m bondage porn because not only are the men hot, but their level of involvement in the BDSM is hot - that's the point, not so much their looks. I've seen just as many men in m/m bondage porn that are not "my type" as attractive men in F/m porn who are boring lumps that inspire very little in their surrender.

Akasha

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/14/2011 9:03:21 AM

81song

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Well I use to be uncomfortable about that but not any more and it shows me I am not alone in what I look like and my size (only 7") but it is not a turn on for me. Now if I had a Domme that was into it then that is a whole another thing. Because it has to start with her and end with her, that is where my head is at, her turn on.

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/14/2011 12:01:42 PM

Wickad

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(fast reply)

Greetings AAkasha,

It is my opinion that the reason guys emulate het bdsm/vanilla porn, rather than look into the imagery that many Dominant women have expressed an interest in, is because it's not about you (aka AAkash the woman) it's about them (the horny man who seeks erotic gratification).

I know this sounds very carte blanche but porn is about objectification and sexual fantasy. The reason that het porn focuses on the woman and that gay porn focuses on the bottom is because these are the folks being objectified for a visual audience (ie: men - gay or straight). Yes, a lot of straight guys use the porn they watch as a 'teaching aid' in how to treat, deal with, or interact with the objects of their fantasies. Once again, that's because it's not about you, it's about them. Until these guys meet real life Dominant women and make that mental click from fantasy driven interactions to whole people driven interactions they tend to clog up inboxes and annoy most Dominant women. This is the very definition of a 'do-me' submissive.

I think it would be much more useful for submissive guys to actually look at the images that many Dominant women find exciting rather than watching things that most of us have deemed as 'crap'. However, I don't think a lot of guys (submissive or otherwise) come to this lifestyle from a purely intellectual standing. I think we have to face it, most folks develop an interest in BDSM because it 'turns us on' in some way. In the beginning, it's about our own desires and an exploration of what makes us 'tick' ... it's not about our partners. It isn't until later in the process that folks figure out that they can have their fantasies with real live people. Of course some of them never get to the real people stage or get caught up in a loop of their own fantasies and objectification.

I hope my ramblings have helped - lol - or at least have provided fodder for conversation,
Wickad

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/14/2011 1:13:14 PM

YSG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Same. I also don't care for the idea that males should be studying porn because that must be what all women want. I think the smarter thing to do is find out what turns on the particular woman that a male is with and go from that angle. What good does it do Me for guys to study what turns someone else on? I find it much more beneficial for him to know what trip's My trigger rather than some kind of generalization.

Agreed, especially since one thing does not turn on every single woman

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/14/2011 2:50:15 PM

mummyman321

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I wonder if men are uncomfortable looking at attractive men. I reference the m/m bondage porn because not only are the men hot, but their level of involvement in the BDSM is hot - that's the point, not so much their looks. I've seen just as many men in m/m bondage porn that are not "my type" as attractive men in F/m porn who are boring lumps that inspire very little in their surrender.

Akasha

70% of men between the ages of 18 to 24 years of age are the people who are essentially driving the online porn industry. Porn generates more revenue than Microsoft, Google, Netflix, Facebook and Youtube combined!

Unfortunately there is not a good break down of BDSM versus vanilla porn. It is all lumped together. The Kinsey Institute did some studies on male versus female response to various BDSM porn but that data is rather old and outdated so I will not include them in this post.

But getting back to to who buys m/m porn bondage? Gay males!. Not Femdoms, not het males, not het females. So what are we to learn from this? I am learning that gay males enjoy buying the m/m porn bondage. I have no doubt you probably enjoy m/m porn bondage. I have no doubt other Femdoms might like it as well. On the larger picure though I will argue the majority of Femdom's are not wanting their subs or potential subs to go study m/m porn bondage to figure out how to please them.

The other problem with your arguement is that you are classifying Femdom porn as Hetro porn. I am not sure that last time you actually checked FemDom porn, but it is greatly mixed with lesbian, bi, straight, gay and probably a few I missed inbetween. There is no statistical data behind your claims and honestly it just does not make sense.

Internet Porn Statistics - Very Interesting
http://mattsingley.com/blog/2010/06/the-stats-on-internet-pornography/

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/14/2011 5:20:27 PM

Lucienne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

As a femdom with a sensual-sadist streak and a huge fan of bondage, I view a lot of male bondage porn, and not surprisingly, most is M/M. I watch this genre not specifically because I want to see "man to man action" in the form of blow jobs or anal, I watch it because the focus is primarily on the bottom, and the bottom is usually presented as a very attractive, charismatic "victim" vs. in het bondage porn where the male bottom is often a hooded, uncharismatic afterthought or mere prop with the focus on the domina delivering the action.
...

Why aren't het men studying this stuff and getting a sense of what femdoms like? I'm not the first femdom to proclaim that while I like BDSM porn, I tend to gravitate toward gay BDSM porn not because I have a huge thing for guys together, but because the men are more pretty to look at.

Akasha

I love just about everything you've written in this thread, even if I don't agree with it. It seems to me that you are teasing out (no pun!) something interesting. Men and women seek out sources of inspiration to make themselves more attractive to the desired sex. m/m porn is a fairly obvious, yet neglected source of inspiration. I suspect this is true for both men and women. And a lot of that probably has to do with, as various people have noted, the mindset of the consumer. Sub men ape the porn designed around their fantasies.

Personally, I never cared for het porn of any variety. It left me cold, designed as it was so much around the het male fantasy. Gay porn on the other hand... porn designed around getting (attractive) guys off. Hot. I appreciate it as a "doer" in ways that het porn cannot match. I realized awhile ago that part of my appreciation for gay porn is that no one has to be the woman. I think this relates to your point about the tendency of male subs in het porn to be uncharismatic props. They play the gendered role of "woman." In gay porn, everyone gets to be the man -- a fully recognized human being. At least that's how it works from my perspective. The objectification talk of some gay men would suggest that many of them see it differently. (laughing at self). But I do wonder if part of the appeal of gay porn to femdoms is that sense of a space where individuals can claim their top/dom sub/bottom status as free individuals, absent all the gender coding expectations.

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/14/2011 5:30:55 PM

marsneedswomen

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If you can't get the reactions from your partner that you want, maybe you aren't that good at dominating?

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/14/2011 5:32:01 PM

Lucienne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marsneedswomen

If you can't get the reactions from your partner that you want, maybe you aren't that good at dominating?

mnw

Oh, shut the fuck up and crawl back under your rock.

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/14/2011 8:34:45 PM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

I love just about everything you've written in this thread, even if I don't agree with it. It seems to me that you are teasing out (no pun!) something interesting. Men and women seek out sources of inspiration to make themselves more attractive to the desired sex. m/m porn is a fairly obvious, yet neglected source of inspiration. I suspect this is true for both men and women. And a lot of that probably has to do with, as various people have noted, the mindset of the consumer. Sub men ape the porn designed around their fantasies.

Personally, I never cared for het porn of any variety. It left me cold, designed as it was so much around the het male fantasy. Gay porn on the other hand... porn designed around getting (attractive) guys off. Hot. I appreciate it as a "doer" in ways that het porn cannot match. I realized awhile ago that part of my appreciation for gay porn is that no one has to be the woman. I think this relates to your point about the tendency of male subs in het porn to be uncharismatic props. They play the gendered role of "woman." In gay porn, everyone gets to be the man -- a fully recognized human being. At least that's how it works from my perspective. The objectification talk of some gay men would suggest that many of them see it differently. (laughing at self). But I do wonder if part of the appeal of gay porn to femdoms is that sense of a space where individuals can claim their top/dom sub/bottom status as free individuals, absent all the gender coding expectations.

Thank you. After thinking more about it, I think what attracts me to the idea of having a guy watch m/m bondage porn is that he can realize that a bottom has an active role in BDSM, even if he is bound, gagged, helpless. This has nothing to do with cocks in mouth, m/m anal sex, or any of that; it has to do with the most subtle physical and emotional reactions to restraint and pain. It is them understanding that allowing yourself to be objectified -- and encouraging that through your behavior as a bottom - is key to a woman's pleasure.

It's an overarching issue - the "why should I care what turns a woman on about bondage or S&M, she should find out by topping ME and we can figure it out together." That's laziness. I never met a vanilla guy when I was single who said, "Why should I care what makes a woman a sadist or not, as long as I am getting laid." Instead, it was "What do you enjoy about this process and how can I do it better?" This is what good bottoms should strive for.

The subs that say "I don't try to learn anything from watching porn, it's just porn" -- these are often the same guys emulating every bad stereotype they see in porn, or expecting the femdom to do the same. They are picking up these bad habits somewhere. Just a day on collarme and watching the new posts will show people that these men have very unrealistic expectations regarding what real world femdoms are like.

Akasha

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/14/2011 9:40:06 PM

ThePeripatetic

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I don't think it's exactly fair to make this division between vanilla guys and BDSM-oriented submissives as if the vanilla guys are more inclined to please and work at good submission and the "experienced" submissive men are more selfish in their "submission". In my opinion, men, whether vanilla or kinky, are all just as prone to pick up bad habits from porn (whether the flavor be gay, straight, kink, or vanilla). You just happened to catch these vanilla boys before they happened to pick up bad habits from BDSM porn... But I bet they had still learnt a thing or two from their vanilla porn the same way sub guys pick up bad habits from BDSM porn.

I make this deduction based on conversations I've had with numerous female friends who complain about their boyfriends (vanilla as far as I know) trying to emulate porn-type sex in the bedroom. The problem extends across the spectrum.

And to me, the answer is definitely not the introduction of different types of porn. The solution is really a matter of guys (kinky or vanilla) opening up their ears and minds to the desires and needs of their partner. It's a matter of more listening and less selfishness on the part of the male.

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/14/2011 11:40:15 PM

KeepMeUnderneath

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As a penis wielder I would like to offer my contribution. Man on Man = GAY!
If there is ever more than two men and they are naked and or sexually contributing to the same person and or eachother then the situation is atleast partially homosexual if not completely.

In any form of porn, as soon as I see a dick it just, turns me off. Lesbian porn is great. Me and my many lesbian friends have lots to discuss on this issue but, man on man is gross.
I can watch it if I have to, but, it's a turn off. It's not arrousing.

All men want to fuck like porn stars. It doesn't matter if they are vanilla or BDSM, all men want to fuck like porn stars. Why? Because the porn stars are good at it! The last thing a guy wants is his women running to her women friends, (whom he will probably have sex with if they break up) saying "he fucks like a retard trying to pull his dick out of a toaster." He wants her going to her friends saying "wow, my man made me orgasm so hard last night that I think I had a stroke when I came!" Guys want to please women. Some so they can brag, others because they love their women and all that, and yeah. Different reasons. Everyone wants to be good at sex. But I do think you don't have to do it like a porn star. Fucking like a porn star is so, cliche. I think do it your own way but do what works for you. Do what's right by her!

But I think, theres different levels of hetrosexuality. I'm, fiercely hetero. That doesn't mean I'm homophobic though. I can watch gay porn, but if a women watches it with me, expecting it to make 'us' horny, well, she's having a hotdog thrown down her hallway as opposed to a steam engine driven through the eye of her needle. But some guys understand it. Some guys are horny for it. If it gets them horny to see 2 guys spit roast a third cos "mistress said so", and it'll mean that horniness will then let them deliver more pleasure to their mistress then each to their own.

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/15/2011 12:00:28 AM

ThePeripatetic

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quote:

It doesn't matter if they are vanilla or BDSM, all men want to fuck like porn stars.

As a favor to us other "penis wielders", please don't make such broad and ostentatious generalizations about the rest of us with XY chromosomes.

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/15/2011 12:10:24 AM

KeepMeUnderneath

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....Ok well, 'most' of us endowed with XY chromosomes want to fuck like porn stars. Not because of technique but because of the outcome. The rest obviously just want to jiggle it about and blow on their balls whilst their partner, be it male, female, donkey or otherwise remains completely un-satisfied I guess.

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/15/2011 12:31:50 AM

ThePeripatetic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KeepMeUnderneath

....Ok well, 'most' of us endowed with XY chromosomes want to fuck like porn stars. Not because of technique but because of the outcome. The rest obviously just want to jiggle it about and blow on their balls whilst their partner, be it male, female, donkey or otherwise remains completely un-satisfied I guess.

Okay, so in my humble opinion, this is the crux of the overall issue that needs to be addressed. I feel like people (and men in particular) place porn and porn stars on a pedestal. It's acting. It's not "real world". The so-called "satisfaction" you see from the women on screen is, in all likelihood, flamboyant theatrics.

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/15/2011 12:51:42 AM

KeepMeUnderneath

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You're focussing on the wrong part. Men know it's fake. Men think with their dicks, not their heads. Their dicks have more brains than their heads so when their dicks go into a vagina and it's not like a porn movie they say "Hey hang on, we've been dooped!". Like wrestling. It's fake. Anyways, penises I think have evolved to work this out. But, the result is, (in the porno's) the women is satisfied. But also in wrestling, it's fake, but, the guy still wins the match. He's still satified in his victory. Anyways, I don't mean to make sex sound like a conquest thing here, but, Men wanting to fuck like porn stars means, they want the women to orgasm like in a porno. If they make her have a proper orgasm, they know they have, dare I say it 'conquered' her. For some it might be a conquest of pleasure. They have conquered her pleasures. Satisfied her cravings, filled her. Given her the best damn night of her life. Now, what man would not want to deliver that to a women? Or another man (for all the gays in the audienth)

Men don't want to fuck like a porn star because its sexy. If I watch men in pornos in turns me off! I don't want to fuck in their style.. They look fucking stupid!!! I have my own style. But I want my style to deliver the result theres does in the porn films, and that is a satisfied female porn star. Its not just men. Women are the same, its a human being thing. I think generally, people want to be GOOD at sex. People want to give their partner an orgasm. If you watch someone have an orgasm, essentially its pornographic. (Even if it has a story line), and so, you want to fuck like a porn star.

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/15/2011 2:14:15 AM

ThePeripatetic

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quote:

Men think with their dicks, not their heads. Their dicks have more brains than their heads

Seriously dude? Really??? This just makes me sad. Pathetic state of affairs if this be the case. (bangs head furiously against the wall)

< Message edited by ThePeripatetic -- 2/15/2011 2:15:42 AM >

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RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? - 2/15/2011 3:05:25 AM

VaguelyCurious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

It's an overarching issue - the "why should I care what turns a woman on about bondage or S&M, she should find out by topping ME and we can figure it out together." That's laziness.

I'm sorry, but no. I'd call it 'having an appropriate sense of reality', and 'knowing every woman is different', and 'being in tune with and sensitive to your partner'. Any kind of erotica (even if we're not just talking about porn) is filtered through the perceptions of the people making it. I don't want my partners deciding what turns me on based on something filtered through the perceptions of someone who doesn't know me.

And if you think that watching a partner to see how they respond to things and basing your responses on that is *lazy* then I question whether or not you've ever actually done it; it's both the hardest and the most fulfilling thing about a new relationship, and frankly I think that your 'they should be watching porn instead or they're lazy' idea sucks.

quote:

The subs that say "I don't try to learn anything from watching porn, it's just porn" -- these are often the same guys emulating every bad stereotype they see in porn, or expecting the femdom to do the same.

Your evidence for this? Because I'm really not seeing it.

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