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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 1:26:54 PM

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quote:

Apologies if i am being picky here, Tazzy, but the "biblical period" encompassed the time of Democritus and Epicurus who were already several centuries before Jesus describing the material world in terms of atoms. It also overlaps the construction of the great library in Alexandria and the cosmopolitanism and migration of Greek thought. I have read that nearly 40 percent of the residents of Alexandria were Jewish. I have also read that the Maccabean rebellion (prior to Jesus) was in part a rebellion against the spread of Helenization and specifically the placing a statue of Zeus in the Temple in Jerusalem. My point is that the population of Judea was not all so ignorant as biblical apologists make them out to be. The notion that they needed miracles to explain nature is dubious.

Nor did I say all people were ignorant. But the masses, I highly suspect, were not part of the philosophical world then. Considering Indian (India) Philosophers were discussing the philosophy of atoms in 6th century BC, it wasnt until 450 BC that Democritus coined the term "atomos". Again, these would not be discussions I would envision a carpenter of entertaining back then.

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 1:31:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Apologies if i am being picky here, Tazzy, but the "biblical period" encompassed the time of Democritus and Epicurus who were already several centuries before Jesus describing the material world in terms of atoms. It also overlaps the construction of the great library in Alexandria and the cosmopolitanism and migration of Greek thought. I have read that nearly 40 percent of the residents of Alexandria were Jewish. I have also read that the Maccabean rebellion (prior to Jesus) was in part a rebellion against the spread of Helenization and specifically the placing a statue of Zeus in the Temple in Jerusalem. My point is that the population of Judea was not all so ignorant as biblical apologists make them out to be. The notion that they needed miracles to explain nature is dubious.

Nor did I say all people were ignorant. But the masses, I highly suspect, were not part of the philosophical world then. Considering Indian (India) Philosophers were discussing the philosophy of atoms in 6th century BC, it wasnt until 450 BC that Democritus coined the term "atomos". Again, these would not be discussions I would envision a carpenter of entertaining back then.

Well, you might be underestimating the spread and infuence of Hellenism across Judea and Israel at that time but just my guess. Not so important for me to spend a lot of time mucking about in it looking for evidence.

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 1:39:43 PM

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quote:

Waiting for a miracle? Be your own miracle.

Nice turn of phrase.

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 1:42:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Secondly, i am not so sure there is any archeological evidence, any artifacts that confirm the presence of Jewry in the Egyptian captivity. If someone can point me to that evidence i would greatly appreciate it. Thanx.

There is no evidence of any kind. The Egyptians would have likely written something about such an incident but they never mention having hebrew slaves at all.

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 1:48:26 PM

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With all its regional and chronological differences, Hellenism is a cultural unity which corresponds to the existence of a uniform upper stratum of society and is reflected in the remarkable uniformity of the Greek language (the so-called koiné) from India to Gaul, wherever there was a Greek settlement. International trade both favored, and was favored by, this uniform upper stratum; Greek-speaking traders moved round the world. They were joined by more or less Hellenized Orientals and later by Italians. The slaves, the native peasants, and the Greek proletariat neither contributed much to, nor enjoyed the advantages of, this civilization.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0008_0_08708.html

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 2:30:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Where have all the miracles gone ?

Each moment is a miracle.

Open your eyes.

Sorry I can't share in your pollyannaish philosophy.

Each moment is not a miracle unless you want to overlook all the pain and suffering in this world.

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 2:32:22 PM

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There is pain and suffering in childbirth... yet behold the miracle as the end result!

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 2:39:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Each moment is not a miracle unless you want to overlook all the pain and suffering in this world.

I don't want to overlook the pain and suffering in this world, nor do I want to overlook the beauty or miracles in it. The two are not mutually exclusive.

mbmbn

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 2:46:09 PM

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Nature is as cruel as it is beautiful
humans have taken it to extremes

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 2:54:52 PM

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miracles still happen everyday....

people who were blind from birth or for many many years and one day they can see....did nothing, no surgeries..they can just see now. No explanation.

People who were pronounced dead only to wake up in a morgue hours or a day later.

Then there are those who have lifelong illnesses or fatal diseases and one day it's gone..just gone. Doctors can't explain it. Tests are done and it's just not there anymore.

No more miracles?? Tell that to these people.

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 3:04:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
When have i disparaged the lack of belief?

I hold no contempt for those who do not believe, nor do I hold contempt for those who do not believe as I believe.

The contempt I hold is for those who demand others believe that god doesnt exist and repeatedly point this out for all.

I have yet to see anyone demand any atheist to believe in god... in the supernatural... in spirituality... in anything.

If I have missed that post, please show me.

Yes, you apparently have completely missed that point.

Are you forgetting the evangelists whose mission in life is to convert non-believers?

Pentecostalism?

The Jehovah's Witnesses who bang on my door every Sunday?

The Southern Baptists?

What you are saying is that it is ok for the religious to proclaim that the existence of God is a fact while you denounce those who would argue otherwise.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 4/30/2011 3:11:02 PM >

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 3:15:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

miracles still happen everyday....

people who were blind from birth or for many many years and one day they can see....did nothing, no surgeries..they can just see now. No explanation.

People who were pronounced dead only to wake up in a morgue hours or a day later.

Then there are those who have lifelong illnesses or fatal diseases and one day it's gone..just gone. Doctors can't explain it. Tests are done and it's just not there anymore.

No more miracles?? Tell that to these people.

Yes, it must be some supernatural being who decided they were really, really special and came to their aid while ignoring the multitude of others suffering from the same problems.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 4/30/2011 3:18:36 PM >

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 3:18:18 PM

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we all have miracles in our lives. We just tend to overlook them and write them off.

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 3:23:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

we all have miracles in our lives. We just tend to overlook them and write them off.

No, what we have is people who want to live in a fairy tale land and can't accept that things just happen, good or bad, without some divine intervention.

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 3:24:30 PM

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quote:

Yes, you apparently have completely missed that point.

Are you forgetting the evangelists whose mission in life is to convert non-believers?

Pentecostalism?

The Jehovah's Witnesses who bang on my door every Sunday?

The Southern Baptists?

What you are saying is that it is ok for the religious to proclaim that the existence of God is a fact while you denounce those who would argue otherwise.

And all these have what to do with me? When have I banged on your door? When have I ever advocated that anyone be allowed to bang on yur door? I enjoy my sleep time on sunday mornings. What about the Southern Baptists? I have nothing to do with them.

You still havent shown me how they have "demanded" you do these things. I do believe a simple sign....

I live in a secure apartment building. Unless someone lets them in, they cant bang on my door. Then again, I have no problem saying.. no thank you.. and closing the door in their face.

quote:

What you are saying is that it is ok for the religious to proclaim that the existence of God is a fact while you denounce those who would argue otherwise.

And when have I ever stated that? You have every right to proclaim god doesnt exist. What you DONT have the right to do is insult and belittle people for their beliefs because they dont agree with yours. I have asked before, and will continue to do so... Proof your assertion more correct than theirs?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 3:32:04 PM

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quote:

No, what we have is people who want to live in a fairy tale land and can't accept that things just happen, good or bad, without some divine intervention.

Perfect example. Cant you make that same point without the belittlement?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 3:32:43 PM

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You have made it very clear that you don't believe in the stories of the Bible and don't believe in the Christian God. Now why would you want an intelligent conversation about something you think is hogwash, unless it is to once again point out how silly you think religion is? Most people who want an intelligent conversation also want to talk about things that interest them.

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 3:35:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

So sorry. Ok then, I don't wear a burka on my head, but I get really angry when I see bigots doing it. Does this mean I should ignore them when they shout insults at the women who do?

You get really angry when you see bigots wearing burkas?

By the way, you do know that a burka is a full body covering? Not just for the head.

Let me try it again. I don't wear a burka, but I get really angry when I see bigots attacking those doing it. Does this mean I should ignore them when they do?

better?

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 3:41:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

No, what we have is people who want to live in a fairy tale land and can't accept that things just happen, good or bad, without some divine intervention.

Perfect example. Cant you make that same point without the belittlement?

No.

Which brings me back to the point of how you keep saying you are spiritual but not religious, yet you are constantly on the attack at any perceived sleight of religion.

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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 3:43:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Where have all the miracles gone ?

Each moment is a miracle.

Open your eyes.

Sorry I can't share in your pollyannaish philosophy.

Each moment is not a miracle unless you want to overlook all the pain and suffering in this world.

Jesus sang that there would always be suffering, but that didn't mean you should run around and miss the miracles of life around you. Or maybe it was Ted Neely. I get the two confused, but you get the idea.

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