RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive?

RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (Full Version)

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ChatteParfaitt -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 6:35:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 Lol, this is rubbish...! First and just to clarify, "his statement" wasn't anything he stated on this public discussion board - you lifted it from his personal profile. As for that statement: "I am hoping to satisfy my craving for having someone to punish around when I'm in the mood to, and wanted to be served". The last few words are a bit confusing but generally it's harmless if you factor in that probably the most confusing and bastardised word in BDSM is "punish". He probably should've substituted "dominate", or even "control", instead.... And, best for last and as one of those Doms who "turns it off and on" - you're advocating a dom has to be an "island"? Geeeezus, even a full-on sociopath needs downtime! I admit to being at a total loss as to how you misconstrued that from my statement. I meant turns it on and off as in merely playing a role. Look at his interests, he's heavily into RP games. Just so we're clear, you don't think it reasonable that a dom can have a relationship where he can love his submissive in all ways? You know - friend, companion, lover, confidante etc in the everyday - just like any other mature/adult couple! It has to be total disconnect of emotions (24/7) to be "true" D/s or M/s? That most subs only want the cruel, strutting control freak who's never allowed to just be human occasionally - with all the fallibilities implied? I certainly never said any such thing nor implied it. Again, I am quite baffled. But then this venue appears to be virtual minefield in terms of what people can read into a simple statement. You recently mistook me for Gorean and I thought you were a domme until this thread. But I am familiar with the hyper-uberness (posturing, sweeping statements et al) that only a switch can project. You don't have a monopoly on "confrontation".... Yes, I did make a genuine error and mistake you for a Gorean, and I have apologized to you publically and sent you a Cmail. So I am confused as you why you brought it up, and most especially in the context of my being a switch. It sounds like a domme you would give the benefit of the doubt, a switch you would not? That is quite hugely prejudicial, but nothing I have not heard before. On that note I'll just uber posture my way on out of here. Enjoy your evening, Focus. Focus.

NuevaVida -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 9:34:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys quote: I used to do comparisons, until I found it was pointless to do so. I'm all for subjectivity but even it has boundaries. We see it on a regular basis. Someone gets called out because his/her views aren't well received. Yet we can all rattle off these words with razor precision at just the opportune moments when it suits us. "If" a Dominant went around saying yes mam when responding to and waiting hand-and-foot on his submissive, catering to her every whim and so on and so on..I bet you'd see a few raised eyebrows. So there are limits to everything and there are limits to subjectivity as well. All true, and I think that's what Leadership was saying - that even the "extreme" things are subjective. That's what I was talking about, when I mentioned comparing - Your extreme to my extreme. Limits to subjectivity is an interesting concept though, let me chew on that a bit. [;)]

diablarosa -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 9:49:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida All true, and I think that's what Leadership was saying - that even the "extreme" things are subjective. That's what I was talking about, when I mentioned comparing - Your extreme to my extreme. As in what you think is serious or not. Got it. But RELATIVE extremity wasn't the point... high level of controling someone was. And as usual from what Ive seen of leadership he skirted the issue by praying to the god of all things relative and abstract... hijacking the point totally.

NuevaVida -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 10:06:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: diablarosa quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida All true, and I think that's what Leadership was saying - that even the "extreme" things are subjective. That's what I was talking about, when I mentioned comparing - Your extreme to my extreme. As in what you think is serious or not. Got it. Nope, 'fraid not, chica. If you read again, you'll see that I said I used to compare extremes, and no longer do, because it's pointless to me. quote: But RELATIVE extremity wasn't the point... high level of controling someone was. And as usual from what Ive seen of leadership he skirted the issue by praying to the god of all things relative and abstract... hijacking the point totally. As for the topic of "extremes," you said, "Of course dominants control the way they like, but there are also levels--or extremes--of control. What's so hard to see there?" You equated levels with extremes, but now say extreme isn't the point, but levels are? OK.

diablarosa -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 10:29:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida You equated levels with extremes, but now say extreme isn't the point, but levels are? OK. I said RELATIVE extremity wasn't the point. I used it quantitively, not qualitively. I'm not talking about whether you think the piss guzzling scene in Shaved Cumdumpsters 11 is extreme or not. Got that… chica? [;)]

NuevaVida -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 10:34:03 PM)
LOL OK.

Icarys -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 10:39:04 PM)
quote: Limits to subjectivity is an interesting concept though, let me chew on that a bit. You do that.[;)]

Icarys -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 10:41:05 PM)
quote: Nope, 'fraid not, chica. If you read again, you'll see that I said I used to compare extremes, and no longer do, because it's pointless to me. I don't believe you, Nueva.

NuevaVida -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 10:42:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys quote: Limits to subjectivity is an interesting concept though, let me chew on that a bit. You do that.[;)] You know I will. It'd go better with berry pie, though. [;)]

Icarys -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 10:43:21 PM)
quote: It'd go better with berry pie, though. Maybe if you're good, I'll make you one.[:D]

NuevaVida -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 10:56:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys quote: Nope, 'fraid not, chica. If you read again, you'll see that I said I used to compare extremes, and no longer do, because it's pointless to me. I don't believe you, Nueva. You don't have to, Icarys. The only thing I can do is measure something someone says is extreme against my own experiences and my life in the present, and consider (a) how I'd respond to it; and (b) if it's something that would feel extreme to me. I suppose that could be construed as comparing, so I'll clarify - in the past, I'd think "You think THAT'S extreme?" while thinking it really wasn't extreme at all. Today, that's not the frame of mind I want for myself. What was extreme to me in the past, might not be today, however, what was not extreme to me in the past very well might be today. It's relative, based on where I am in my life. So while I might be comparing various practices - be they elements of control, extremes, latitudes, or anything else, I can really only hold them up against my own personal journey. But to compare other people's experiences for the purpose of deciding whether or not it's extreme to them....it's just not my thing. I did it before, I don't do it now. I don't see the point. In the past, it stemmed, in part, from insecurity. If slave A thinks having to ask to use the bathroom is extreme, then I could grin and think, "Hell, that's nothing" and feel really good about where I was in life with my (then) owner. Now I think along the lines of, "Well, to me it comes naturally to ask permission to go to the bathroom, but there could be a gazillion reasons out there why it feels extreme to her/him." I have no idea what that person's past experiences are, and why asking permission to go to the bathroom might feel extreme. So I'm in no place to judge what's extreme for someone else or not. I can only speak for myself. Now, your "I don't believe you" wasn't exactly an invitation to explain my point, but your challenges sometimes cause me to think a bit more, so there you go.

NuevaVida -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 10:57:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys quote: It'd go better with berry pie, though. Maybe if you're good, I'll make you one.[:D] Promises promises... [8D]

Icarys -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 11:16:15 PM)
quote: You don't have to, Icarys. The only thing I can do is measure something someone says is extreme against my own experiences and my life in the present, and consider (a) how I'd respond to it; and (b) if it's something that would feel extreme to me. I suppose that could be construed as comparing, so I'll clarify - in the past, I'd think "You think THAT'S extreme?" while thinking it really wasn't extreme at all. Today, that's not the frame of mind I want for myself. What was extreme to me in the past, might not be today, however, what was not extreme to me in the past very well might be today. It's relative, based on where I am in my life. So while I might be comparing various practices - be they elements of control, extremes, latitudes, or anything else, I can really only hold them up against my own personal journey. But to compare other people's experiences for the purpose of deciding whether or not it's extreme to them....it's just not my thing. I did it before, I don't do it now. I don't see the point. In the past, it stemmed, in part, from insecurity. If slave A thinks having to ask to use the bathroom is extreme, then I could grin and think, "Hell, that's nothing" and feel really good about where I was in life with my (then) owner. Now I think along the lines of, "Well, to me it comes naturally to ask permission to go to the bathroom, but there could be a gazillion reasons out there why it feels extreme to her/him." I have no idea what that person's past experiences are, and why asking permission to go to the bathroom might feel extreme. So I'm in no place to judge what's extreme for someone else or not. I can only speak for myself. Now, your "I don't believe you" wasn't exactly an invitation to explain my point, but your challenges sometimes cause me to think a bit more, so there you go. Don't think I'm calling you a liar by my previous words. My intent was to say that we rarely if ever move away entirely from our old habits when having to deal with life. We may, depending on the person, have gotten to a point of control for a said thing or feel we have worked past it but it still remains, ever so subtlety. One last thing and I'm off to bed :). What people do when they do what you spoke of is a form of judging. We all do it for various reasons. Rest assured, we all do it. (Yes an absolute!)[:D]

Icarys -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 11:19:25 PM)
quote: Promises promises... I have no problem keeping my promises, I can assure you. If you were here, you'd see that.[:D]

NuevaVida -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 11:40:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys Don't think I'm calling you a liar by my previous words. No worries, I don't. quote: My intent was to say that we rarely if ever move away entirely from our old habits when having to deal with life. We may, depending on the person, have gotten to a point of control for a said thing or feel we have worked past it but it still remains, ever so subtlety. Hmm, well there are lines of thinking from which I've totally moved away, and they now feel very foreign to me. This isn't to say all my lines of thinking are different, but many of them are, because they weren't true to the real nature of who I am. A person can veer away from themselves along the way, and then come back to their core, hopefully a bit more enlightened. quote: One last thing and I'm off to bed :). What people do when they do what you spoke of is a form of judging. We all do it for various reasons. Rest assured, we all do it. (Yes an absolute!)[:D] Ooooo an absolute! Such a rebel. But I didn't say I don't judge. I just think much differently than I once did, in those judgments. I'd still think asking to use the bathroom is mild, but I can only compare it to my own reaction to such a rule. My thoughts on how someone else might react are open to a lot more possibilities than they used to be.

NuevaVida -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 11:41:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys quote: Promises promises... I have no problem keeping my promises, I can assure you. If you were here, you'd see that.[:D] LOL now that I believe.

Focus50 -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/10/2011 4:47:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 Lol, this is rubbish...! First and just to clarify, "his statement" wasn't anything he stated on this public discussion board - you lifted it from his personal profile. As for that statement: "I am hoping to satisfy my craving for having someone to punish around when I'm in the mood to, and wanted to be served". The last few words are a bit confusing but generally it's harmless if you factor in that probably the most confusing and bastardised word in BDSM is "punish". He probably should've substituted "dominate", or even "control", instead.... And, best for last and as one of those Doms who "turns it off and on" - you're advocating a dom has to be an "island"? Geeeezus, even a full-on sociopath needs downtime! I admit to being at a total loss as to how you misconstrued that from my statement. I meant turns it on and off as in merely playing a role. Look at his interests, he's heavily into RP games. Now you can't have it both ways...! You may have meant that he turns it on or off as roleplay, but you didn't say that. Roleplay is not the default meaning of dominance, at least not to the considerable percentage of us who live D/s or M/s as a core personal relationship dynamic. So if you don't stipulate that which is relevant but not obvious, you don't then get to plead innocence/ignorance in regard of statements others allegedly "miscontrue" from you. quote: Just so we're clear, you don't think it reasonable that a dom can have a relationship where he can love his submissive in all ways? You know - friend, companion, lover, confidante etc in the everyday - just like any other mature/adult couple! It has to be total disconnect of emotions (24/7) to be "true" D/s or M/s? That most subs only want the cruel, strutting control freak who's never allowed to just be human occasionally - with all the fallibilities implied? quote: I certainly never said any such thing nor implied it. Again, I am quite baffled. But then this venue appears to be virtual minefield in terms of what people can read into a simple statement. Again, your baffled-ness comes from the relevant you failed to stipulate. As for this venue, I'd think those who thrive on conflict and confrontation could find minefields at a newborn's christening. quote: You recently mistook me for Gorean and I thought you were a domme until this thread. But I am familiar with the hyper-uberness (posturing, sweeping statements et al) that only a switch can project. You don't have a monopoly on "confrontation".... quote: Yes, I did make a genuine error and mistake you for a Gorean, and I have apologized to you publically and sent you a Cmail. So I am confused as you why you brought it up, and most especially in the context of my being a switch. It sounds like a domme you would give the benefit of the doubt, a switch you would not? That is quite hugely prejudicial, but nothing I have not heard before. On that note I'll just uber posture my way on out of here. Enjoy your evening, Focus. I brought it up because my experience of internet bdsm Forums (here, bondage.com and the old bdsm-online) is that the domliest of all tend to be switches who over-compensate in (apparently) feeling they hafta try harder or prove themselves or whatever it is. Been a few years since I posted at bon.com but I still remember Greggy and Fire in particular - switches who thrived on conflict and confrontation, too, and were equally proud of it. So shoot me for a lightbulb moment in recognising a familiar theme once you identified as switch. The sleight (if any) wasn't in calling me Gorean but your reference to "my" Gorean BS - you're not without your considerable prejudices yourself, or the sweeping statements that freely emanate from them. I've found most people treat me as I treat them. I'd reckon you find that, too; that "minefields" are symptomatic of an atmosphere you readily generate.... Focus.

aromanholiday -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/10/2011 5:18:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh A great many submissives will 'test' or challenge a known Dom just to show him that he's not in charge (unless he is their Dom). ... quote: I meant in the situation where a man (or a woman, for that matter) attempts to be dominant with a sub who is owned or uninterested, or who they have just met, or where they are in a social group with a Dominant who attempts to boss everyone around. The submissives are unlikely to respond to it, but rather they will go out of their way to show that person x is not the boss of them. It's the same as many submissives on here saying that they submit to their Owner, but no-one else. Ah, I see what you are saying. Thanks for clarifying. I remembered something. Years ago I once went to some local events. I was owned at the time and made that perfectly clear as did the friends who were with me, but some boorish fellow (he was not young, he should have known better) kept hitting hard on me. I didn't challenge him, but I was very embarrassed by his behavior: some for me, some for him, and just tried to avoid him or not answer him. He was persistent, but I didn't want to be rude to him or humiliate him. I am not sure why some dominants try to dominate submissives who are clearly not available, but it did happen to me. Maybe it was because my master was not there at the time? At another event I got hit on the same way, but by an insistent submissive man who wanted me to be a dominant to him! (I was wearing a collar at the time--sigh--just goes to show what people think about collars.) It was necessary at the time for me to attend a few of these events but as soon as I didn't have to, I stopped. There was nothing for me in bdsm socializing. Nothing. The company I had in private (my master) was so much more interesting, intelligent, and fascinating. But I suppose I was biased. :) quote: The point I was responding to stated that submissives would just naturally respond to dominance, regardless of who it was coming from. I thought it was implied in that quote that the person was talking about unowned submissives, but I could be wrong. But also while some submissives and slaves do seem to have an inner set of rules of ethics about discouraging inappropriate aggression or flirtation from strange dominants, I've seen a lot of supposedly "owned" submissives actively flirt with people other than their dominants at these events. You also see a lot of casual players there. Everyone is confused with everyone else. I imagine it can get a bit confusing for dominants trying to meet submissives at those things to determine who's available. The messages sent can be ambiguous. At core, though, I don't think group events are a very good way to meet compatible people, particularly if your needs are in the minority. I can't tell from meeting a person at such an event whether their mind is the place I need it to be: all I see is their outward flash/projected personality, which could be very deceptive.

domiguy -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/10/2011 5:20:03 AM)
Another unbelievably stupid thread. If the chick ain't attracted to you you ain't finding out shit about her. End of story.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/10/2011 5:27:28 AM)
quote: Now you can't have it both ways...! You may have meant that he turns it on or off as roleplay, but you didn't say that. Roleplay is not the default meaning of dominance, at least not to the considerable percentage of us who live D/s or M/s as a core personal relationship dynamic. So if you don't stipulate that which is relevant but not obvious, you don't then get to plead innocence/ignorance in regard of statements others allegedly "miscontrue" from you. Oh please. Even the rules of debate allow for clarification of points, terms, or phrases that may be ambiguous. If someone has misconstrued what I said, of course I get to come back and attempt to explain my actual meaning. It's called conversation. Now, it's entirely up to you whether you want to believe me, or whether you want to continue to push your own agenda of moral superiority. quote: I brought it up because my experience of internet bdsm Forums (here, bondage.com and the old bdsm-online) is that the domliest of all tend to be switches who over-compensate in (apparently) feeling they hafta try harder or prove themselves or whatever it is People ask questions, I offer my opinions. It's your issue if you have problems with thinking a little blonde girl who switches is more domly than you, or trying to be more domly than you. Whatever. As for proving myself, what exactly am I proving? That I am arrogant? Highly opinionated? That I thrive on confrontation? I admit to all that freely. Why don't we add "uses easily misconstrued phrases" and "makes sweeping generalization." I'll cop to that to, with the cavaet that the majority of regular posters on this forum do the same. Your statement: "I brought it up because my experience of internet bdsm Forums (here, bondage.com and the old bdsm-online) is that the domliest of all tend to be switches who over-compensate in (apparently) feeling they hafta try harder or prove themselves or whatever it is." Is an example of a sweeping generalization that can be easily misconstrued. As for the minefields here, everyone, myself included, looks at life through their own distorted lens. Everyone is prejudicial in some way or another, everyone sees things colored by their own personal experience. However, I have to thank you for making it clear as no one has before that I need to be much more precise in my use of language. I consider myself a good communicator, but obviously in this particular venue, I have much to learn.

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