RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive?

RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (Full Version)

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Icarys -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/8/2011 8:02:19 PM)
quote: I do too. While not everybody has to like that quality in submissives or slaves, dominants who really like control tend to. They like things done exactly their way, and executing their orders is not the least bit mindless nor easy, in my experience. It takes a lot of intelligence, planning, and also considerable restraint (not to slough off) to obey well. There are things you can do as a not-compliant-all-the-time feisty submissive with a permissive dominant that you could never get away with a different sort of master. The care you must take with the latter, even when you have some wiggle room, is considerable, and your decisions need to be conservative and not "assume" that something done differently or not done is going to be acceptable. In my experience, someone who likes a strong level of control, also really appreciates a submissive or slave who just simply and very consistently, without flash or fuss, obeys. Some of you are rare indeed.

Awareness -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/8/2011 10:18:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Absolutely. Which is why it's so ironic that you earn none from anyone here. Congratulations upon your appointment as spokesman for everyone in the "Ask a Master" forum and no doubt, the entire board. I'm sure you'll have a long and illustrious career telling everybody what everyone else thinks. No doubt this is a position to which you're well suited. Alternatively, some might think that the assumption of such a role might just be a clue that it's time to get over yourself.

OwnedFemaleFlesh -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/8/2011 10:25:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aromanholiday quote: ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh A great many submissives will 'test' or challenge a known Dom just to show him that he's not in charge (unless he is their Dom). This is a bit of a tangent from the main topic, but I don't think it will be a long one. My question is, in what circumstances does this challenging or testing occur and why is it done? If he isn't their dominant, then why do they go out of their way to challenge him? If I am owned and someone else isn't my dominant but is a known Dom, I don't feel a need to challenge or test him, at least I can't recall ever feeling such an urge. I just leave the person alone. Or, if it is a social situation and I am seated next to him or otherwise expected to interact with him, I will make neutral polite friendly conversation, make little jokes, and try to put him at his ease, the way I would with anyone in that sort of situation. Are you talking about message board posts or the guys who write you on personal-ad sites even though your profile says "owned?" I do see this challenging happening here, and I have a hard time understanding it. Submissive women don't get likewise challenged when they say they are submissive. Most posters just take their orientation at face value. I guess a submissive's decision-making abilities do get challenged a bit, as many new submissive posts are about frightful situations they find themselves in. I meant in the situation where a man (or a woman, for that matter) attempts to be dominant with a sub who is owned or uninterested, or who they have just met, or where they are in a social group with a Dominant who attempts to boss everyone around. The submissives are unlikely to respond to it, but rather they will go out of their way to show that person x is not the boss of them. It's the same as many submissives on here saying that they submit to their Owner, but no-one else. The point I was responding to stated that submissives would just naturally respond to dominance, regardless of who it was coming from. owned xxx

NihilusZero -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/8/2011 10:29:31 PM)
We are apt, as humans, to overvalue our uniqueness and downplay our pervasively-recurring traits. Additionally, people's impressions of reality via the hypothetical are usually starkly different from actual action in practice. quote: A woman either responds well to you or she doesn't. Whether she's self-identified as a sub or has no idea, the fundamentals of most hetero women pretty much guarantee they respond to dominant male strength. And this, as it is presented (in loose reference to percentages), is actually apt. But the question in the OP becomes moot as the generic submission score of a woman won't matter unless there's a mutual response. So, the proper Confucian answer would be: "When it happens, you won't need to know."

Focus50 -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 4:02:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddysInkedSlut quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop ~FR~ check the bottom of her foot for a tattoo that says USDA Prime Sub. You made me snort coke! Junkies are always blaming someone else.... ;) Focus.

Focus50 -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 4:13:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hejira92 quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 One of my signature lines at social get-togethers with friends was to tell the women to keep it down because the men were talking. Doesn't tell you who's submissive but it sure eliminates a shit load of feminist types from the list of possibilities. Good job looks really can't kill, too.... Focus. If I was in a vanilla situation (or in a grey area while dating) and a man had the audacity to Shhh me because the men were talking, he'd never get the chance to find out if I were submissive or not. Obnoxious is Obnoxious. Hmmm, "at social get-togethers with friends".... You do understand the concept of humour designed to get a specific reaction - and generally succeeding? Unless you're just determined to get offended regardless - that generally succeeds for those inclined, too. Win/win for both of us.... For what it's worth, mum yousta rouse at me for playing with my food, too. It's all good.... [:)] Focus.

aromanholiday -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 5:43:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt ...statements like this: "I am hoping to satisfy my craving for having someone to punish around when I'm in the mood to, and wanted to be served" serve to show your ignorance and lack of experience. Interesting. I've been aware I was deeply submissive since age 4, I've been unconsciously trying to submit to men since I've been sexually active, I've been consciously submitting for over 20 years in master-slave relationships, been greatly happy doing so, and to me, right now, with all of my experience backing me up, that quoted intention "I am hoping to satisfy my craving for having someone to punish around when I'm in the mood to, and wanted to be served," sounds perfect. A person with that attitude is the exactly sort of person I seek out. Just goes to show what I know, eh? [;)] No it's not right for everybody. But that isn't exactly what you said with your global, sweeping judgement about his "ignorance" and "lack of experience." I deleted the snippy comment that you followed that with, about his reading less bdsm fiction. For some of us, the sort of attitude expressed in his post is perfectly normal and natural, even most welcome, and has everything to do with dominance-and-submission fact, not fiction. (Although, I must concede your point: it may very well be "BDSM fiction" to a "BDSM person" given the confused and sorry state that "BDSM knowledge" seems to be in these days.)

Kana -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 6:10:12 AM)
Sheesh, This is still going on-one would think the answer is obvious... A real (patent pending) submissive will immediately drop to her knees and open wide the second she receives mail from A Twue Dom ordering her to do so.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 6:23:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aromanholiday I do too. While not everybody has to like that quality in submissives or slaves, dominants who really like control tend to. They like things done exactly their way, and executing their orders is not the least bit mindless nor easy, in my experience. It takes a lot of intelligence, planning, and also considerable restraint (not to slough off) to obey well. There are things you can do as a not-compliant-all-the-time feisty submissive with a permissive dominant that you could never get away with a different sort of master. The care you must take with the latter, even when you have some wiggle room, is considerable, and your decisions need to be conservative and not "assume" that something done differently or not done is going to be acceptable. In my experience, someone who likes a strong level of control, also really appreciates a submissive or slave who just simply and very consistently, without flash or fuss, obeys. I agree with your statement above. I can't say I think I would have trouble with that degree of control, I have to say I know I would. Even if I was very highly motivated. It just would not work for me. I don't doubt it works for some. My point was that there are people so submissive as to be very passive who can quite easily be taken over. And if coupled with an uber dom pushing his own agenda, without regard to the submissive, that can become very unhealthy. I appear to have left out the "without regard to the submissive" but I thought that was understood. My bad for not understanding my audience. quote: ORIGINAL: aromanholiday No it's not right for everybody. But that isn't exactly what you said with your global, sweeping judgement about his "ignorance" and "lack of experience." I deleted the snippy comment that you followed that with, about his reading less bdsm fiction. For some of us, the sort of attitude expressed in his post is perfectly normal and natural, even most welcome, and has everything to do with dominance-and-submission fact, not fiction. (Although, I must concede your point: it may very well be "BDSM fiction" to a "BDSM person" given the confused and sorry state that "BDSM knowledge" seems to be in these days.) His statement to me sounded like he thinks dominance is something you turn off and on, and I don't believe I was the only one who took that meaning. In any case I will make yet another sweeping statement and say: "most subs don't want a dom who turns it off and on." As far as buying some non-fiction BDSM books, what exactly is wrong with that? There really is a limit to what you can learn viewing only porn. BTW: At least when I am "snippy" as you call it, I am out front about it. Please feel free to shoot me the day I display the passive aggressive tendencies I have found in this thread.

leadership527 -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 7:45:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aromanholiday In my experience, someone who likes a strong level of control, also really appreciates a submissive or slave who just simply and very consistently, without flash or fuss, obeys. I suspect it has more to do with a focus on results rather than process. I also think it ties in heavily with how "kinky" the dom & sub find dominance and submission. Since for Carol and I it isn't kinky at all we have no incentive to have dominance combats. Neither Carol or myself would enjoy me "putting her in her place" so we avoid it. But it's easy to see how if that whole D/s contest got one or both parties hot or perhaps just reinforced the sense of ownership then it would be more worthwhile. I think that each dominant likes exactly the control he/she likes. What is important to me to control isn't what's important to some other dom. Some other dom might well think that my control of Carol is very loose because if I hauled off and slapped her unexpectedly then BadThings(tm) would happen. I might think that other dom's control was loose because he couldn't tell his sub to agree with him. I think it's a fool's errand to try to compare "levels of control".

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 9:33:38 AM)
quote: I think it's a fool's errand to try to compare "levels of control" I agree, you would certainly be swimming in some very subjective waters in that conversation. Personally, I am discovering such subjective discussions can be very difficult and frustrating in this venue. Not because of the posters necessarily, most (non-trolls) give valid and enlightening contributions. But the venue does not necessarily lend itself well to a discussion where you have to define and agree (or agree to disagree) on many terms before the actual discussion can even begin. The lack of visual cues in a text only setting with people you only know through the forum, adds to the chances of misunderstanding, no matter how well we try to communicate. For me at least, I get more out of it than I put in, despite the occasional misinterpretation.

diablarosa -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 12:47:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 I think that each dominant likes exactly the control he/she likes. What is important to me to control isn't what's important to some other dom. Some other dom might well think that my control of Carol is very loose because if I hauled off and slapped her unexpectedly then BadThings(tm) would happen. I might think that other dom's control was loose because he couldn't tell his sub to agree with him. I think it's a fool's errand to try to compare "levels of control". A "fools errand?" Hrm... don't think what was being said is all that difficult to understand. Of course dominants control the way they like, but there are also levels--or extremes--of control. What's so hard to see there? I can control someone in small very general ways (when he gets to cum, have a dildo ramed up his ass, how to dress right and what lipstick to wear when meeting me), and then I can control him in much larger ways (control over his priorities in life, micromanaging everything he does, taking over his bank account, his spending, his social life, his career, his possessions, and so on. There's a lot of control and then there's more surface control. You can easily draw out a scale of it if you had the patience (i don't). Also, self control is a related but whole other scale. i don't think its a good idea to throw all the scales in together, look at the running multicolored mess it causes and say "see, its all a relative freeforall, so rape me with a strap on, my ___?___ and don't worry, I won't put you in your place! because thats just odd and offensive bdsm nonsense'n labels n' shit."

leadership527 -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 1:27:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: diablarosa A "fools errand?" Hrm... don't think what was being said is all that difficult to understand. Of course dominants control the way they like, but there are also levels--or extremes--of control. What's so hard to see there? There's nothing hard to see in it. What's hard ot get around is the subjectivity in the assessment of "extreme". It's been my experience that pretty much all the M/s couples I've ran into were extreme in some way or another. But their assessment of extreme and mine are not the same. To quote Steely Dan: "The things you think are precious I can't understand" Put differently, how can you justify your assessment that having a dildo rammed up one's ass is a "smaller way" than "control over social life"?? Sure sure, it seems obvious to YOU. But what about someone else with an entirely different value system? Why are your priorities and values more correct than theirs? ChatteParfait said Personally, I am discovering such subjective discussions can be very difficult and frustrating in this venue. I SOOOOO agree with you there. Many times I've felt like an acrimonious conversation here would, in person over a coffee table and a glass of wine, be a delightfully enlightening glimpse into a totally different viewpoint.

NuevaVida -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 2:16:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 But their assessment of extreme and mine are not the same. To quote Steely Dan: "The things you think are precious I can't understand" Absolutely, and fantastic quote. What's extreme to me is extreme to me based on my own history, moral code, sense of ethics, fears, PTSD triggers, desires. delights, and all the other kajillion things that make up the person that is me. Add the Mister into that mix and our "extreme" is going to be far different than your "extreme" (or at least it's likely to be) It's how individuals are effected by something, that makes it extreme or not. And those extremities can change, as our lives change. I used to do comparisons, until I found it was pointless to do so.

Focus50 -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 3:10:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt His statement to me sounded like he thinks dominance is something you turn off and on, and I don't believe I was the only one who took that meaning. In any case I will make yet another sweeping statement and say: "most subs don't want a dom who turns it off and on." Lol, this is rubbish...! First and just to clarify, "his statement" wasn't anything he stated on this public discussion board - you lifted it from his personal profile. As for that statement: "I am hoping to satisfy my craving for having someone to punish around when I'm in the mood to, and wanted to be served". The last few words are a bit confusing but generally it's harmless if you factor in that probably the most confusing and bastardised word in BDSM is "punish". He probably should've substituted "dominate", or even "control", instead.... And, best for last and as one of those Doms who "turns it off and on" - you're advocating a dom has to be an "island"? Geeeezus, even a full-on sociopath needs downtime! Just so we're clear, you don't think it reasonable that a dom can have a relationship where he can love his submissive in all ways? You know - friend, companion, lover, confidante etc in the everyday - just like any other mature/adult couple! It has to be total disconnect of emotions (24/7) to be "true" D/s or M/s? That most subs only want the cruel, strutting control freak who's never allowed to just be human occasionally - with all the fallibilities implied? You recently mistook me for Gorean and I thought you were a domme until this thread. But I am familiar with the hyper-uberness (posturing, sweeping statements et al) that only a switch can project. You don't have a monopoly on "confrontation".... Focus.

Icarys -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 3:15:39 PM)
quote: I used to do comparisons, until I found it was pointless to do so. I'm all for subjectivity but even it has boundaries. We see it on a regular basis. Someone gets called out because his/her views aren't well received. Yet we can all rattle off these words with razor precision at just the opportune moments when it suits us. "If" a Dominant went around saying yes mam when responding to and waiting hand-and-foot on his submissive, catering to her every whim and so on and so on..I bet you'd see a few raised eyebrows. So there are limits to everything and there are limits to subjectivity as well.

Icarys -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 3:24:34 PM)
quote: Geeeezus, even a full-on sociopath needs downtime! You mean I can take a vacation? Who knew. *Off to call a travel company.[:D]

diablarosa -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 3:51:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 There's nothing hard to see in it. What's hard ot get around is the subjectivity in the assessment of "extreme". It's been my experience that pretty much all the M/s couples I've ran into were extreme in some way or another. But their assessment of extreme and mine are not the same. To quote Steely Dan: "The things you think are precious I can't understand" Put differently, how can you justify your assessment that having a dildo rammed up one's ass is a "smaller way" than "control over social life"?? Sure sure, it seems obvious to YOU. But what about someone else with an entirely different value system? Why are your priorities and values more correct than theirs? Well... I think there's only so far you can take relativity before it starts to get off topic. your taking 'extreme' out of context here to talk about abstract qualifications of what's valuable or not by opinion, but relative value and control are largely different things. I can have all your do-hickies stacked up in a pile, but you value do-dads, so what I took doesn't mean much to you. It: * doesn't take away the fact that I have all the do-hickies * doesn't mean I'm not also going to be taking your do-dads as our relationship goes on, including nick-nacks, be-bops, wing dings snorkle dorks and yum-yums over a period of time. I can idenitfy all the qualifications and take control over them one by one. As I do my control grows. that's the larger picture here. Just because it's not important to you doesn't mean it's still not control in general. uneducated voters might want to learn this lesson and they do eventually usually when its too late. Besides, this may be just me, but I don't think anyone in their right mind would find being dildoed in bdsm to be the same level of control (if you can even call it that) as, "you have to cut off all ties with your friends and family and your paycheck is going to me for now on. Oh, and by the way, cash your retirement for me, while your at it."

diablarosa -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 3:56:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 But their assessment of extreme and mine are not the same. To quote Steely Dan: "The things you think are precious I can't understand" Absolutely, and fantastic quote. And right before that is You wouldn't know a diamond if you held it in your hand. Sooo... just sayin'. [8\|]

diablarosa -> RE: In reality, how would you know if a female is submissive? (5/9/2011 3:58:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys quote: I used to do comparisons, until I found it was pointless to do so. I'm all for subjectivity but even it has boundaries. We see it on a regular basis. Someone gets called out because his/her views aren't well received. Yet we can all rattle off these words with razor precision at just the opportune moments when it suits us. OMG. Yes. This.

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