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RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/12/2011 12:44:25 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline 		The same thing happens to me. When someone i don't know asks me for personal information, i would rather they first offer some themselves. Answer their own question. It's not a strong preference, but it's a preference. i notice it. i expect the same from posters i know, but it bothers me more when i don't know the person. In general, i think if you're gonna walk around asking nosy questions, it's polite to first answer the question yourself.

Like if some stranger were to call me out of the blue and ask me, what brand of underwear are you wearing? i would be like, who the hell are you and why do you want to know? In real life i'm more easy going, but then in real life there's a personal connection that's lost when you go to the internet. In real life it's easy to see if someone's a pervert, or legitimate. On the computer, it's harder to tell the difference.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 5/12/2011 12:51:39 PM >

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/14/2011 11:43:04 PM   
wolf3


Posts: 6
Joined: 9/13/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah, I think that would strike me as strange if someone asked something along those lines, without including an answer to it for themselves in their post.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 2:57:57 AM   
WestBaySlave


Posts: 501
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline 		 Normally I include information about myself if the post is related to something personal. However, I have a great curiosity about the world around me and how different people live their lives, so I might ask a question directed at, say, women, transsexuals, or polyamorous folk that has no relevance in my life and have no personal information to share.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 3:33:01 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		i think the only posts that bug me are the ones where people are clearly needing to make their fantasy real by sharing it with others.  usually in the format of 'punishment' topics.

maybe with the other types the OP is mentioning its more a case that they have absolutely no opinion because theyre so new they havent done anything yet but dont want to admit it.  clueless newbs i can cope with.  fantasists on a wank fest rile me up quite badly, i just hate being lied to, even by a stranger ill never meet and couldnt care less about.  its the whole manipulation bugwash i hate.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to WestBaySlave)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 4:14:36 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

I've noticed that when people begin a thread and ask others to express how they do something, why they do it, their experience, etc. and yet don't tell their own story, it irritates me. My hackles go up. Why does this person want to know? It's not quite that strong, more like a little nagging thing in the back of my head, but there it is.




You're having a snert flashback. It stems from ingesting too many of the wee creatures back in the day. There is no known cure but there are treatments. Wankers are to snerts as methodone is to heroin addicts. Just eat two wankers every morning for breakfast and you'll be fine.



_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 4:24:36 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		ew, bita, , ..... i need some peppermint tea right now!

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 5:23:29 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline
Sunny
Quote of the Day
goes to
BitaTruble

for

You're having a snert flashback.
It stems from ingesting too many of the wee creatures back in the day.
There is no known cure but there are treatments.
Wankers are to snerts as methodone is to heroin addicts.
Just eat two wankers every morning for breakfast and
you'll be fine.


http://www.collarchat.com/m_3666802/mpage_3/tm.htm

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 5/15/2011 5:24:37 AM >

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 7:58:43 AM   
electricred


Posts: 20
Joined: 4/23/2011
Status: offline 		I try to explain the situation and backstory in my threads asking for advice, but it seems like going into details opens someone to more hostility from the resident elitists than someone who keeps their questions concise and simple.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 9:17:02 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		Well I notice the opposite: somebody comes in with "I like doing XXX, anybody else into this"?

These people almost instantly heckled too, generally accused of trolling for wank fodder, which of course, it does sound like, and may be, but it that is an assumption.

In my experience, a lot of people wander in here after googling something fetish related (or possibly referred by a friend or acquaintance), and are looking for support and like minded individuals- I think everybody here probably went through a phase when they questioned their proclivities, hell I don't even disclose the fantasies I had early on, they were so extreme, and for many years I never mentioned any of it to anybody unless they brought it up first, or if the relationship lasted, carefully probed and sounded they out on particular subjects.

i.e., I stayed pretty much outwardly Vanilla, kept my fantasies fantasies - the advent of the internet changed all that - while I got over my reticence long before that, simply through having relationships and encounters with people who shared some facet of my interests - though usually not all - i.e., some chicks are heavily into gangbangs, but not bondage, others, like bondage and spanking, but not other stuff, etc., and in true Vanilla fashion, usually whatever kinky fetish they had was all good, everybody else was "weird", and I never got any sense of "community", just random kinky people I happened to run into, and each with very clear ideas on what was acceptable and what wasn't, and for every one there was somebody else with a completely opposite set of expectations.

It's just human nature: we want to be accepted, and likes and dislikes are part of that - in Vanilla, which is a sort of continuum between "mainstream" conformity and full-blown erotophobic neurosis (see Judith Reisman and "erototoxins"), and everyone has conditioned responses about what is acceptable and what isn't, which if you poll enough people, you'll find is almost completely subjective and arbitrary, a lot of it is just competition and status seeking, and that seems to go for kinky people as well as Vanilla - i.e., kinky people can be pretty Vanilla, it's just in different ways.

To some extent, this board has moved in more generalized direction, which is good, YKINMK, but there are still certain "taboo" subjects apparently.

So, to be brief, even in the fetish community, and a forum is a community, which in a public forum, presumes diversity, there are cliques and "special interest groups", and generally one gravitates towards those who share and validate these interests - and how you gonna know until you ask?

Personally, I'll entertain anything, I don't need to do it to find it interesting, and I've got nothing against wank fodder, and I think that's largely a labeling issue, there's Two parts to this: first comes a fantasy phase, when you imagine all sorts of things that get you hot.

This is an important thing: sex is 90% in your head, sexual response is more than just a physiological response, that's pretty much the point of fetish, but it's ubiquitous, Vanilla is different from fetish mainly in that it stresses Apollonian romantic fantasies rather than Dionysian erotolepsy, but it's a fantasy all the same. i.e, fantasy helps put you in the properly receptive frame of mind, both physically and psychologically, and the anticipation itself can be damn near as good as the actual thing, i.e., head games, etc. - the second part is acting them out, which is where the fantasy reality diverge, and something has to give - usually fantasy, but it remains an important aspect, even if it's perhaps alluded to ritually in some way, rather than acted out verbatim.

In short, with the neophyte, the whole business is in it's idealized form, unmodified by experience, and they are basically looking for others who share a similar idealization, in order to act undergo the experience - the only way to gain experience, is to undergo experience, but the first step there is find one who shares your idealization - over-disclosure is a sort of shotgun approach, hoping the one person who shares your interests can break through the legion of people lining up to go "ewww", whereas under-disclosure is simply being more discreet, hinting around, trying to avoid an anticipated overreaction.

So personally, its' no skin off my nose, we can only experience reality through our perceptions, and idealization is like an internally generated perception the two can only be differentiated by experience.

We generally can only experience these things in meatspace without it ending tragically is by finding someone who shares our basic idealization, so back to square one - how you gonna know unless you ask?

In short, I don't believe in beating somebody up over their lack of experience, or for specializing in one particular section - hell, you never know they might be onto something - so while I'm still inclined to mock the proselytizers or the genuinely delusional, the best part of all this for me is just finding one other person on the planet that's as weird as I am and I hate to rob anybody else of that.

< Message edited by xssve -- 5/15/2011 9:18:33 AM >

(in reply to electricred)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 9:59:18 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus
I've never been terribly impressed with the way newbies are dealt with in these forums. From my experiences people appear to interact with them better in real life situations (munches/play parties). If all a forum veteran can offer is a pointer to Google or to the search function they ought to just click the X and move on. Then there's this thread about not trusting a newbie simply because they are a newbie. Makes one feel very fortunate not to be a newbie in all of this.

Semi fast, semi smart-ass reply.

I've never been particularly impressed with the way some newbies approach these forums. 

Of course new people get a different reception at real life situations.  A part of this is due to the fact that it's face to face interactions, rather than some of the stuff that comes across these forums.  To date, I haven't ever walked into a munch (either as the new person to the location or being an established member of the group) and been bombarded with even a fraction of the stuff that happens here.  When is the last time you went to a munch and before a person even says hello, starts asking you about how you like to have sex or spills their relationship problems all over you?  How many folks attempt to monopolize your time by doing nothing but asking question after question about various activities, types of kinks, and relationship styles when you don't know them from Adam?

If more people would approach these forums the same way that they would if they were walking into a munch, they'd get a much better reception.  Let's remember that anybody showing up to a munch in the first place had to put some of their own effort into it.  They had to research to find the munch, shower, get dressed, arrange transportation, be on time, and have some social manners and grace during the time there.  In other words, they had to make an effort that goes over and above the fifteen minutes it took to create a profile and then write up a one line question on the forums.  I'm going to respond way better to someone when they don't just expect Me to do all of their work for them.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to DomImus)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 10:05:54 AM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		I'm sort of "all of the above". Once in a great while, I throw out a thread or a comment that I don't have an strong opinion on one way or the other, but I either think it might be a good topic for conversation or might shake the tree a little. Or, I just don't want to set the tone for the thread or bias the direction in which the thread goes.

I also am not one to volunteer great deals of information about myself up front. I usually don't have anything to hide and will answer any (or most!) questions thrown at me, but I'm not one to try to make something all about me at the outset, I'm more interested in what others have to say. And, I like to make sure anyone reading would BE interested in what I'm saying before I say it. I'm not real comfy calling attention to myself and blowing my own horn, I usually wait until I'm asked.

< Message edited by windchymes -- 5/15/2011 10:07:24 AM >

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You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 11:21:01 AM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: electricred

I try to explain the situation and backstory in my threads asking for advice, but it seems like going into details opens someone to more hostility from the resident elitists than someone who keeps their questions concise and simple.


I don't know if I qualify as a "resident elitist" (hopefully not), but here's how I see things.

I am usually not hostile towards anyone.  When I'm not being completely serious, my answers tend to be more funny than mean.  However, there are a few types of questions that may tend to elicit a sarcastic or humorous reply, rather than a serious reply.  Here are a few examples"

1)  People who simply ask if anyone is into kink XYZ.  Usually, their name will include their kink.  For example, someone named "Luv2DrinkPee" will inevitably ask "Do any Mistresses like their subs to drink their pee?"

This place gets bombarded with questions like that.  But they're really not questions.  It's more like a poll.  I'd be much more likely to answer a real question, like if someone asked the following; "I've fantasized about drinking pee, but I'm afraid to actually try it because I'm afraid I might get sick.  Does anyone have experience doing this, and is it actually unhealthy?"

2)  People who ask lazy questions that could be answered by opening a dictionary or doing a google search.  For example, someone might come on here and ask "What does S&M stand for?", "What's a dildo",  or "What does 'Domme' mean?"  Those questions just seem lazy to me.  I tend to ignore those questions.  I don't give them a mean or snarky reply.  I just ignore them.

That doesn't mean that I dislike newbie questions.  I've answered plenty of questions like "What's a munch?", "Should I send money to a Domme?", and "How do I know if someone is a scammer?"  I actually enjoy helping newbies with those types of questions, because I remember when I was at that same stage.  But I don't think I ever posted a question in a forum that I could have looked up in a dictionary with the same or less effort.

3)  Questions that seem like obvious quests for wank material.  Anyone who has been on here for any length of time has seen questions like this.  "How do you torture your slaves penis?", or "Describe how your slave uses his tongue on your ass".  

These questions are almost always asked by male subs, and it's almost always their very first post.

I know that I probably sound judgmental.  Some of these questions could be very legitimate.  But I do tend to respond negatively to those types of questions, whether it's fair or not.  But hopefully there are enough people in this forum who will give a good response to any questions that I might choose to give a sarcastic or humorous reply to.

(in reply to electricred)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 11:31:22 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

I've noticed that when people begin a thread and ask others to express how they do something, why they do it, their experience, etc. and yet don't tell their own story, it irritates me.



It shouldn't "irritate" you... here's why.  As is often the case with research, the person asking the question does not want to bias the responses -- and sharing one's views in the OP would do exactly that.  As such, the best way to get honest answers, is to avoid asking any "leading" questions.



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 11:37:18 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

The same thing happens to me. When someone i don't know asks me for personal information



As I see it, there's absolutely nothing "personal" about a web forum... unless you are the duck in your avatar, for example (which I'm fairly sure you're not), then anything shared is quite impersonal -- as nobody knows the person behind the duck, if that makes sense?!!



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to gungadin09)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 12:02:54 PM   
paulmcuk


Posts: 80
Joined: 4/16/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

I've never been terribly impressed with the way newbies are dealt with in these forums. From my experiences people appear to interact with them better in real life situations (munches/play parties). If all a forum veteran can offer is a pointer to Google or to the search function they ought to just click the X and move on. Then there's this thread about not trusting a newbie simply because they are a newbie. Makes one feel very fortunate not to be a newbie in all of this.



As a newbie myself (though not much of a thread-starter) I've also felt that other newbies get a raw deal sometimes. Responses can come across as dismissive and patronising. Seeing people being told to use the search function is a particular bugbear of mine because it seems to assume that all someone wants is an answer to a question when, sometimes, they're really trying to start a discussion. More than once I've clicked on a potentially interesting topic heading to find the thread killed by half a dozen people telling the OP to go search.

I appreciate it can get boring for long-time regulars to see the same subjects come up again and again, but isn't that what happens in life? Don't we tend to rehash subjects in conversations with friends and colleagues? But each time it will be a little different with new experiences and new points of view. Think about it, if a newbie attends a munch and asks a question, would they be told "Sorry, we had that conversation three months ago but we recorded it so why don't you go through the tapes to find the answer"?

That said, it is a two-way street and I do think the OP of this particular thread has a point. There is something of an onus on thread-starters to say a little more than just "Who is into X?" if they want to get a good response. I don't think that (politely) pointing that out to newbies is a bad thing. But remember that written text has no tone of voice and short and sweet can read as sharp and sarcastic.

(in reply to DomImus)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 3:22:44 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

I've noticed that when people begin a thread and ask others to express how they do something, why they do it, their experience, etc. and yet don't tell their own story, it irritates me.




It shouldn't "irritate" you... here's why.  As is often the case with research, the person asking the question does not want to bias the responses -- and sharing one's views in the OP would do exactly that.  As such, the best way to get honest answers, is to avoid asking any "leading" questions.




As I'm sure you noticed in my OP, I take issue with NEW people doing this, the ones that are an unknown entity. If someone like yourself or Windchymes or RochSub started a thread without putting anything leading into, that is not bothersome at all.

You seem to have missed the spirit of my question which is about people TAKING AND TAKING with no giving.

quote:

As I see it, there's absolutely nothing "personal" about a web forum... unless you are the duck in your avatar, for example (which I'm fairly sure you're not), then anything shared is quite impersonal -- as nobody knows the person behind the duck, if that makes sense?!!


While you wrote the above to Pam, I'm going to respond. That is patently untrue. Many of us know people on the forums. Many of us have real life stalkers (I am one of those people). EVERYTHING I share can get back to people I know and love. It is one of the reasons I'm fairly private about my life - I'll answer about ideas and I'll answer about my experience with other people, but my own life is (except for very shallow or very common truths) off limits.

And as an aside, MS. LA, it rarely does anyone any good to tell them they shouldn't have the feelings they have. It's not the feelings one has, but the manner in which they are handled that... well that's another topic.

Best,
sunshine

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 3:37:15 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: electricred

I try to explain the situation and backstory in my threads asking for advice, but it seems like going into details opens someone to more hostility from the resident elitists than someone who keeps their questions concise and simple.


I didn't see any elitism in your LDR thread. I saw some politely voiced health concerns. I saw a little snark in your online reading post, but you also got some good advice, like from me with the booklist :)

It's a buffet - ignore the posters who irritate you and enjoy those who don't.

-----

When I suggest someone does a search, it's usually to clarify what search term will give them better results, for example "ethical poly," and I'll toss in a link or two.

(in reply to electricred)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 6:11:10 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulmcuk
As a newbie myself (though not much of a thread-starter) I've also felt that other newbies get a raw deal sometimes. Responses can come across as dismissive and patronising. Seeing people being told to use the search function is a particular bugbear of mine because it seems to assume that all someone wants is an answer to a question when, sometimes, they're really trying to start a discussion. More than once I've clicked on a potentially interesting topic heading to find the thread killed by half a dozen people telling the OP to go search.

First part out.  There are actually some pretty fantastic posts back there in past threads.  If a person is looking for information
they are pretty good to go by. 

quote:

I appreciate it can get boring for long-time regulars to see the same subjects come up again and again, but isn't that what happens in life? Don't we tend to rehash subjects in conversations with friends and colleagues? But each time it will be a little different with new experiences and new points of view. Think about it, if a newbie attends a munch and asks a question, would they be told "Sorry, we had that conversation three months ago but we recorded it so why don't you go through the tapes to find the answer"?

Actually, some discussion munch groups ensure that there topics rotate so that people aren't saying the same thing over and over, week after week, month after month, and year after year.  The group doesn't go back to the beginning of the topic list just because person A joined in June, but the group started in January.

Literally, I've quoted Myself from past threads if someone comes along and repeats the topic we just had five days ago.  There's nothing new that needed to be added to answer the question. 

Do I recapture discussions on Thursday at the water cooler that were a repeat of what we talked about Tuesday morning after watching a show on Monday night?  No.  Might talk about the new episode the following week though.

quote:

That said, it is a two-way street and I do think the OP of this particular thread has a point. There is something of an onus on thread-starters to say a little more than just "Who is into X?" if they want to get a good response. I don't think that (politely) pointing that out to newbies is a bad thing. But remember that written text has no tone of voice and short and sweet can read as sharp and sarcastic.

This has actually already been provided.  Each section has a general guideline and some forums even have a Frequently Asked Questions sticky to point these things out.  A number of new folks just don't want to be bothered.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to paulmcuk)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 6:18:59 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		I agree with you completely.. I have a very similar feeling and I'm fairly circuspect in that situation.

_____________________________

You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Self-Disclosure - 5/15/2011 6:39:05 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

You seem to have missed the spirit of my question which is about people TAKING AND TAKING with no giving.



I guess I just view it differently... I don't see questions in a forum as "taking", but rather simply asking -- for help, opinions, learning, etc. -- and especially so for those that are "new", as in the beginning stages, it's really all about being a sponge of sorts.  As time passes, and they've gathered more experience and perspective, then that's generally when the "giving" can start, as one cannot "give" what they don't know, or even if they're sure if what they do know is accurate, if that makes any sense?

As an example... assume someone were to come to the fora and inquire as to if items "X", "Y", or "Z" should be in a  "BDSM Contract", because they think it shouldn't -- rather than simply asking what others' thoughts were on "BDSM Contracts"?  The first leaves the person open to ridicule, where the latter lends itself to learning.  Thus, sometimes less is more.  So again, I guess I just don't see things like forum questions as "taking" anything?!!

quote:

quote:

As I see it, there's absolutely nothing "personal" about a web forum... unless you are the duck in your avatar, for example (which I'm fairly sure you're not), then anything shared is quite impersonal -- as nobody knows the person behind the duck, if that makes sense?!!


That is patently untrue. Many of us know people on the forums. Many of us have real life stalkers (I am one of those people). EVERYTHING I share can get back to people I know and love. It is one of the reasons I'm fairly private about my life - I'll answer about ideas and I'll answer about my experience with other people, but my own life is (except for very shallow or very common truths) off limits.


Okay, I get what you've stated here, but if I may, I'd like to explain?  For me personally, I've found in most forums of this ilk that I've frequented over the years that a very small percentage of posters actually know each other outside the forums.  I, for example, do not know a single person here... not because I'm anti-social, but because I simply don't have the time or inclination.  Clearly this is different for you, but I'd be tempted to guess that a very small number of people who frequent these forums actually know each other (i.e., face to face... in person) outside of them.  So if I may, I'd like to amend my statement to "As I see it, there's absolutely nothing 'personal' about a web forum for most...".  


quote:


And as an aside, MSLA, it rarely does anyone any good to tell them they shouldn't have the feelings they have.


Sorry if you took my comment as you shouldn't feel a certain way, SM... by stating "It shouldn't irritate you", what I was implying was, by viewing it in a different way, it wouldn't be "irritating".  I understand why many opening posts do not include the OPs views -- it's a way to ensure one does not bias/lead the responses -- or simply that the OP is far too "new" to even have (or feel confident in) an opinion.  That's what I meant... by viewing it in this way, you'd likely not feel "irritated".  I hope that clarifies things a bit?!!



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It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 60
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