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ORIGINAL: Politesub53


English humour....... and its all free.... It was a play on words and all that.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Because, arguably, that sense of power and dominance doesn't come from dominants at all. It's given to dominants by subs.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Because, arguably, that sense of power and dominance doesn't come from dominants at all. It's given to dominants by subs.

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OttersSwim:
To my mind, each party creates a safe space for the other to be their authentic, total self.  I do not create my Lady's dominance, but I certainly foster it and give it a focal point in myself, just as she does for me in my submission.  I don't ever think that I am giving her Her sense of dominance or power.  We are creating a space together where we each contribute our parts to a whole.

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ORIGINAL: Focus50

So no, she doesn't make ongoing choices per se'; that if I wanna bend her over for doggie sex, for example, her "permission" is always implied virtue of her choosing to be in a greater D/s relationship with me.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Generally, I buy the idea that no given position, or even act, in sex is inherently dominant or submissive. I say 'generally', though, because I find it *really* difficult to slot some acts into that belief. For instance, if I were astride a woman's head and, aheming, on her face . . . .

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

To my mind, if you flip this around, you answer your OP. As well as the position floating her boat, she also controls if and when we have sex doggie style. If she tells me to stop, because she has cum, then I stop. Sure I could physically keep her in place until I am done, but that goes against the grain of the relationship we have agreed on. IE, me as submissive. The headspace created by the exchange of power, counteracts the mindset of me being in control due to physical strength.  My approach prior to sex, mentally, would differ from yours, so despite being the same act, its not the same mindset. I hope that makes sense.

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ORIGINAL: leadership527

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Generally, I buy the idea that no given position, or even act, in sex is inherently dominant or submissive. I say 'generally', though, because I find it *really* difficult to slot some acts into that belief. For instance, if I were astride a woman's head and, aheming, on her face . . . .

The funny thing is that while I understand the trouble there, your post also gave it's own answer. As soon as I read that I could easily see myself commanding you to do exactly that for the sole purpose of demonstrating that my control doesn't end when I make commands that run counter to your sensibilities. In short, I got into a dominant mindset just reading the above quote :)

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ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

You know I don't get the whole premise of the thread.  (I'm avoiding the whole he said / she said stuff, thanks). 

I have never ever felt particularly submissive from sex of any kind.  In fact I feel pretty darned powerful.  Even when I can't move, I'm totally getting exactly what I want, and that's heady, powerful stuff. 

*scratching my head*.

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PeonForHer:
Re this specific topic: it could be said that there's no greater way of putting someone in his place than by giving orders to him while you're pointing your arse crack at his face.  I mean, jeez, you don't have to do much with that kind of symbolism to get it, do you?

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Focus50:
Well yeah, but I'm not going to get bogged down with what I called "newbie dynamics" in response to LadyConstanze, when she virtually tried to reinvent the D/s wheel on "choices".  Me, if I'm having sex with my sub, we're in a committed relationship rather than being some Dom and sub who just met.  That means we've worked through most of the basic personal and D/s relationship framework about limits, likes and dislikes etc.  So she really only has a choice to leave; to end the relationship.  There are many other things she won't be in a position of having to choose because I won't put her there - because we've taken the time to build a mutually fulfilling relationship.  So no, she doesn't make ongoing choices per se'; that if I wanna bend her over for doggie sex, for example, her "permission" is always implied virtue of her choosing to be in a greater D/s relationship with me.  I'm no bush lawyer; I don't try and trap her with her own words.  If she or we are having problems, we default to equal adults and work it out.

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Focus50:
All I ever wanted to know was how Dommes overcame that physically disadvantaged position.  LadynTrainer was particularly insightful and (given what's ultimately unfolded) while I can understand how the average male/sub has been reluctant to post what would be a similar perspective, it is interesting that you don't see a (physical) power position at all and focus on what pleases your overall dominant partner.

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Politesub53:
To my mind, if you flip this around, you answer your OP.  As well as the position floating her boat, she also controls if and when we have sex doggie style.  If she tells me to stop, because she has cum, then I stop.  Sure I could physically keep her in place until I am done, but that goes against the grain of the relationship we have agreed on.  IE, me as submissive.  The headspace created by the exchange of power, counteracts the mindset of me being in control due to physical strength.  My approach prior to sex, mentally, would differ from yours, so despite being the same act, its not the same mindset. I hope that makes sense.

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Focus50:
If you recognize that in a primal and physical sense, the male is in a dominant position, then yes, your male/sub and complementing Domme's headspace would be very different to mine and that of my fem/sub's.  I think the result is the same sexually but not the power dynamics that controlled the act.

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ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

Focus,

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Focus50:
Well yeah, but I'm not going to get bogged down with what I called "newbie dynamics" in response to LadyConstanze, when she virtually tried to reinvent the D/s wheel on "choices".  Me, if I'm having sex with my sub, we're in a committed relationship rather than being some Dom and sub who just met.  That means we've worked through most of the basic personal and D/s relationship framework about limits, likes and dislikes etc.  So she really only has a choice to leave; to end the relationship.  There are many other things she won't be in a position of having to choose because I won't put her there - because we've taken the time to build a mutually fulfilling relationship.  So no, she doesn't make ongoing choices per se'; that if I wanna bend her over for doggie sex, for example, her "permission" is always implied virtue of her choosing to be in a greater D/s relationship with me.  I'm no bush lawyer; I don't try and trap her with her own words.  If she or we are having problems, we default to equal adults and work it out.

I'd have called this out as being unworkable, but your last two sentences saved the day.  Absolutes like "so she really only has a choice to leave; to end the relationship" might sound great theoretically and, indeed, some relationships do get to this point when fundamental incompatibilities collide.  However, outside fundamental breaches and fundamental incompatibilities there is a range of normal conflict that occurs in relationships and I'd hope there were better resolution mechanisms in place than "lump it or leave".  Such an approach tends to drive toward resentment and failure.  A good example of this is accidents.  Accidents happen during play, even when each partner knows the other well and clearly negotiated, time-tested dynamics are in place.

During a period when I tried my hand at dominance, I once made the mistake of doing a takedown on my submissive when her head wasn't in the right place.  Now it's true that taking her whenever I wanted was part of our D/s dynamics and I'd done this many times and we both enjoyed this.  However, on one particular day, she was emotionally in the wrong place.  She explained this, however, I misread what she said, thought she was being playfully bratty, and took her anyway.  Oops.  Big mistake.  This damaged her emotionally and it damaged the relationship.  I apologized and admitted my mistake.  We each made choices and the largest of these was to communicate, to acknowledge one another, and to figure out what went wrong.  It took multiple discussions and follow-throughs to repair the damage.

People grow and change, and D/s relationships are subject to these changes.  Thus, though a slave may consent to "being a slave", in fact, as life moves forward and partners experience together and navigate the normal ebbs and flows that occur during any relationship, choice are continually being made.  In a D/s context, whether overt or not, this means partners continually assert their commitment to their roles and responsibilities in the relationship and they do so as new information comes in.  Sometimes, due to circumstances in life, responsibilities must change.  Thus, I think a model that purports "the tenets are in place and thus partners only have a choice to stay or leave" is a vast oversimplification of the dynamics and choices people make as D/s relationship progress.

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Focus50:
All I ever wanted to know was how Dommes overcame that physically disadvantaged position.  LadynTrainer was particularly insightful and (given what's ultimately unfolded) while I can understand how the average male/sub has been reluctant to post what would be a similar perspective, it is interesting that you don't see a (physical) power position at all and focus on what pleases your overall dominant partner.

Perhaps I should read the OP again.  I didn't realize the crux of your question comes from the "physical strength" angle.  Granted, I'm not going to say physical strength doesn't play a factor in the duties people take on, but in consensual BDSM relationships (and in regard to doggie style sex in consensual relationships), strength is irrelevant.  I've had dominant, female partners who were physically stronger than me, though much of the time I'm usually physically stronger than my partner.  The point is that it's what connects the people intellectually in the relationship that drives the power dynamics, not strength.  When you bend your submissive over and take her doggie style, it's not your strength that allows this to happen.  Rather, it's the commitment each of you have to one another and to the roles and responsibilities you've agreed on.  Strength doesn't enter the equation and this is no different when the dominant is female and possibly of lesser strength than her submissive.

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Are you suggesting, Focus, that you subdue your submissive only with physical strength and that this is the nature of your dominance over her?  I don't think so.  Your submissive willingly submits just as you willingly take her.  The fact you happen to be stronger than her and could hold her in place is irrelevant.

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The power dynamics that control the act are, in fact, EXACTLY the same, regardless of the genders, physical strengths, and physical positions involved.  This isn't melee tactics in warfare.  A female dominant enjoying doggie style sex isn't in a physically disadvantaged position and is, in fact, in exactly the physical position she wants to be in, using her command and submissive as suits her desire.

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ORIGINAL: Focus50
Many a male/sub has posted (over the years) that they enjoy being physically overpowered by their Domme, even though it generally includes a little "co-operation" from the usually bigger/stronger male. The fact that I don't require such co-operation from my fem/sub (though she should resist the temptation to gouge out an eye or kick me in the nuts... lol) happens to be an advantage most Doms have over Dommes, and that's been somewhat threatening for a few too many Dommes (and some others) in here.

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The fact is, if a male rapist (for eg) wants to take a female from behind, there's not a lot she can do about it.

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But no female rapist is gonna be taken from behind without the male's co-operation - which kinda renders "rapist" a bit silly here. While your female dominant isn't necessarily disadvantaged, she still requires the male's co-operation.