RE: Dommes and Doggy-style.

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/6/2011 5:26:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

This is what began my topic; that while I never doubted Dommes would ultimately be in control during primal and animal doggie-sex, it isn't a physical control in the animal sense.

It may be that femdom/malesub dynamics, rather than Dom/femsub dynamics, focus more exclusively on the *desire* to dominate, or be dominated. If that, though, is not an animal and primal thing - then it begs the question, what is it? Some mere intellectual game? Jeez, it feels pretty damned primal and animal to me. If I didn't feel her control as a physical thing . . . what would be the point? It has to feel physical, because sex is physical.

Damnit, though, my feelings, or those of any other sub, or Domme, aren't admissable evidence in this type of discussion- we need to find some species of non-human as an exemplar. Except that, as a species of non-human, whatever species we choose as our exemplar can only ever tell us a bit about humans, natch.

I think I could explain the source of that femdom's strength if I were to wax poetical, Focus - but, then, even if I could convey it to you, you'd still only be getting a malesub's side of it.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 6/6/2011 5:30:45 PM >

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/6/2011 8:34:27 PM

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quote:

It may be that femdom/malesub dynamics, rather than Dom/femsub dynamics, focus more exclusively on the *desire* to dominate, or be dominated.

Why would femdom/malesub dynamics focus more exclusively on the desire to dominate, or be dominated, than dom/female sub? I know you weren't stating it as fact. I agree the desire is primal in both. I also know, I've never felt the desire to be dominated. I have desired male dominants, but not as my dominants... Simply as gentlemen.

quote:

If I didn't feel her control as a physical thing . . . what would be the point? It has to feel physical, because sex is physical.

Are you saying, you feel her control as a physical thing, because it is one in fact? Or are you agreeing with focus, that it's a headspace thing.

I don't know what percentage of Dominas could physically force you to bend to her doggy style wishes, but I'm thinking not the greater percentage, given males are generally speaking, physically stronger; and you in particular, look uhm strong (*yup, that's the word*). I've only dated one boy I could overpower, but it would litterally be a forced situation, since he is deathly afraid of anal penetration... I think the fear would eventually subside, if the relationship wasn't long distance (intercontinental), and lasted. Alas, that I suppose was not meant to be. M

< Message edited by SexyBossyBBW -- 6/6/2011 9:16:37 PM >

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/7/2011 4:41:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
Many a male/sub has posted (over the years) that they enjoy being physically overpowered by their Domme, even though it generally includes a little "co-operation" from the usually bigger/stronger male. The fact that I don't require such co-operation from my fem/sub (though she should resist the temptation to gouge out an eye or kick me in the nuts... lol) happens to be an advantage most Doms have over Dommes, and that's been somewhat threatening for a few too many Dommes (and some others) in here.

I'm just not seeing the difference between the cooperation you get from your sub while overpowering her and the same level of cooperation I get from my male partners. We both know we're not really in this to kill or maim one another, so we refrain from eye gouging, kidney punching, testicle kicking, throat slams, etc. Like pretty much all animal species who fight for dominance, the one who is submissive yields to the dominant's physical aggression and no one gets hurt. He may resist some and make me push him harder, but ultimately he knows who his alpha is, and he also knows that he doesn't want to escalate to stuff that can really get one or both of us hurt. He doesn't have to; feeling my strength and physical aggression is enough to trigger his instinctive submission.

I'm saying in a purely non-consensual animal sense, a man doesn't need the woman's co-operation to have doggie-sex with her. But if you gender-reverse that non-consensual predatory role, the female cannot force the male to take her from behind - not *physically* force him to do her doggie. What you're mostly describing or demonstrating here is that you very much have other means to achieve that end. Which is what this topic is about - those other means....

Ok, even when I write "lol" in this thread, no-one wants to see me being light-hearted or as having a sense of humour. While many a female rape victim can (in theory) fight back (eye gouge; nut kick etc), most know she'll likely take a beating for it - that many rape victims physically suffer a lot more than just the sexual assault side of it.

quote:

quote:

The fact is, if a male rapist (for eg) wants to take a female from behind, there's not a lot she can do about it.

You mean, other than the aforementioned dirty fighting tactics that you only use when you really don't care if the other person ends up maimed or dead?

Well yeah - in a purely primal, physical and animal sense.

quote:

quote:

But no female rapist is gonna be taken from behind without the male's co-operation - which kinda renders "rapist" a bit silly here. While your female dominant isn't necessarily disadvantaged, she still requires the male's co-operation.

Don't count on it. Rape isn't always solely about physical force; it can be about other forms of coercion.

Well yeah again, but the primal and animal urges (instincts, if you like) I'm trying to access and discuss here usually aren't so sophisticated as to include complex human dynamics like coercion.

Focus.

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/7/2011 5:06:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

This is what began my topic; that while I never doubted Dommes would ultimately be in control during primal and animal doggie-sex, it isn't a physical control in the animal sense.

It may be that femdom/malesub dynamics, rather than Dom/femsub dynamics, focus more exclusively on the *desire* to dominate, or be dominated. If that, though, is not an animal and primal thing - then it begs the question, what is it? Some mere intellectual game? Jeez, it feels pretty damned primal and animal to me. If I didn't feel her control as a physical thing . . . what would be the point? It has to feel physical, because sex is physical.

Damnit, though, my feelings, or those of any other sub, or Domme, aren't admissable evidence in this type of discussion- we need to find some species of non-human as an exemplar. Except that, as a species of non-human, whatever species we choose as our exemplar can only ever tell us a bit about humans, natch.

I think I could explain the source of that femdom's strength if I were to wax poetical, Focus - but, then, even if I could convey it to you, you'd still only be getting a malesub's side of it.

You say "animal" but, as far as I know, humans are the only species (or animal) capable of functioning through reason, whereas all others are guided by instinct. But we still have those animal instincts, too.

We are the only species that has recreational sex whereas for all others, sex is purely procreational. But obviously we procreate, too.

I think what you're feeling as "pretty damned primal and animal" has as much to do with the human power of reason (headspace, in this instance) as it does base instincts.

I welcome your male/sub input, (you've been one of the very few) even though I don't think I've actually replied to any of your posts. You've expressed relevant views to others whom I have responded to - which is what open discussion is. In a hetero sense, a male/sub is the complementing opposite of a Domme, which would make your input largely complementing of the Domme's perspective I've sought here.

Thankyou.

Focus.

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/7/2011 5:13:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyBossyBBW

since he is deathly afraid of anal penetration...

Lmao, I can relate!

'Homicidal' comes to mind....

So does bed. Nite all....

Focus.

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/7/2011 5:31:32 AM

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Why in D/s does sexual acts have to always be about power and control? Why can't someone have a solid & mature relationship with someone where having sex is simply about pleasure and maybe passion or love? Mind you that the lifestyle gives us many experiences but some people take it too far. You have to know your limits and the partner you are with. If your partner prefers to submit under sex- so be it, but not everyone feels that way.

Having a conversation with dominant women about doggie-style sex is more like a oxymoron. A dominant woman who wishes to have doggie-style sex because she enjoys it doesn't make her submissive or less powerful. It probably makes her a woman who knows what gives her pleasure. A dominant woman who wishes to have doggie-style sex with her man- may also enjoy the act or may find it powerfully erotica to be able to get this man off in such a position. For the man it may be just as pleasureable.

This is why you have to be very careful about crossing or blurring the lines of sex and power. You could confuse the two and really end up damaging a person who either isn't in tune with what the hell is happening and ends up not enjoying it at all. People are human beings with feeling...not just objects.

And as for the topic of rape...if it is not a fantasy then it is a violent act that shouldn't even be equated to D/s or a sexual position. I find that a bit disgusting and not humorous at all.

I was rambling in this posting but there it is.

< Message edited by orchid77 -- 6/7/2011 5:40:29 AM >

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/7/2011 6:00:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: orchid77

And as for the topic of rape...if it is not a fantasy then it is a violent act that shouldn't even be equated to D/s or a sexual position. I find that a bit disgusting and not humorous at all.

Agreed, and I'm always disappointed when actual rape is brought into d/s discussions. I came across this quote in a new book I was reading last night, "Rose; Love in Violent Times" by Inga Muscio....

quote:

Rape is intrinsic to slavery; they go hand in hand. You cannot have slavery without rape. Rape is necessary for total control, emotional compliance and breeding purposes.
Humans rape-each other and/or the earth-to compensate for the isolation in our hearts and the deadened emptiness in our souls. This isolation and deadness comes about through a fundamental disconnect: either rape or murder are always wrong or rape and murder are never wrong. The isolation and emptiness that allows for rape also allows for the violation of everything else that is sacred. You can't have it both ways without creating a disconnect.

Is that power? If it is, it's certainly not the kind of power I seek within a d/s relationship.

Sex is good...sex is fun...sex is a sacred act when shared between people who care. Regardless of who's pitching and who's catching. I've given my view of the topic and related what I felt was necessary to express my opinion of who's in control during sex (regardless of the position).
It's unfortunate, again...in my opinion, that this discussion has to resort to equating a violent act with a d/s dynamic in any way.

While I doubt this post will make any ripples in the little bucket of water that is this thread...I still felt the need to express. From this point on, though, I'm choosing to not acknowledge it any longer, like I'm learning to do with similar topics that in any way relate a consensual d/s dynamic with a violent act.

< Message edited by BonesFromAsh -- 6/7/2011 6:05:03 AM >

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/7/2011 12:56:12 PM

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quote:

It may be that femdom/malesub dynamics, rather than Dom/femsub dynamics, focus more exclusively on the *desire* to dominate, or be dominated.

quote:

Why would femdom/malesub dynamics focus more exclusively on the desire to dominate, or be dominated, than dom/female sub? I know you weren't stating it as fact. I agree the desire is primal in both. I also know, I've never felt the desire to be dominated. I have desired male dominants, but not as my dominants... Simply as gentlemen.

M,

I think the *desire* to dominate, or be dominated, might come more into focus in the context of femdom/malesub dynamics because the issue of physical force can't be as relevant. With a femdom, I literally 'give up' my physical strength. It'd be senseless for me to do otherwise. But does that mean that what happens between me and the femdom is purely 'mental'?

No, I should say not. After giving up my physical strength, I see her own physical strength coming out, being released: her sweat, her flared nostrils and snarls; her gloating, gritted teeth and spitting, her biting . . . Now, it'd be silly to call all that 'mental' rather than 'physical'. Of course it's physical. And of course it's what I want to see, and enjoy.

The big difference between femdom/malesub and Dom/femsub is that in the latter case, the femsub could get off on the fact that Dom could, if he wanted to, force her with his muscles. But that, it seems to me, is the only practical difference, and even that is a kind of force that only hovers in the background, as a suggestion and an implicit thing. Doms don't ordinarily go around actually *using* that muscular strength to force a woman entirely against her will. I don't get the feeling that Focus does, either. It's just there, as a possibility, and something that a femsub and a Dom can get off on.

Could a Domme have her equivalent of that muscular strength, over a malesub? Yes, I think so. She just uses a bit of guile to make up for the muscular difference. I'll say it again and again: humans, of either sex, don't get their real strength from their muscles. They get their strength from their brains. You tie me up, you could do awful things to me that I wouldn't want. Likewise if you even stole my clothes or my credit card. Piece of cake . . . .

But I don't think that this is giving Focus what he wants to hear. I think that his position is somewhere between the *genuine question of* "So, how do femdoms get off on this, given that they lack the physical strength* and the jovial comment of "They *can't* get off on this, because they don't have the physical strength". I'll assume that his position is the former, though, because otherwise this argument is all a waste of time . . . .

But even given that assumption: I can't tell Focus what a femdom feels. I can tell him just why and how a dominant woman can exert what feels, to me, like a powerful physical force over me. Her dominance will drive a wedge through my sense of reason and make my knees weak. Screw reason - if I were reasonable, I'd never have had such sub feelings in the first place. I see the power of her femininity, I love it, and I want to yield to it. From the knees upward, you might say.

But I can't tell Focus what the femdom complement of that is. In that respect, I'll be blunt: I don't know what a femdom feels, either. I can only guess, on the basis of the faces and the bodies of women who I've 'read' in the past. Presumably, he doesn't want the info from me, second hand. Whether a femdom is able to convey such feelings to him, even if she were to want to, is something else again.

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/7/2011 3:16:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

quote:

ORIGINAL: orchid77

And as for the topic of rape...if it is not a fantasy then it is a violent act that shouldn't even be equated to D/s or a sexual position. I find that a bit disgusting and not humorous at all.

Agreed, and I'm always disappointed when actual rape is brought into d/s discussions. I came across this quote in a new book I was reading last night, "Rose; Love in Violent Times" by Inga Muscio....

Just for the record, I don't think anyone's advocating rape here, or diminishing its traumatic affect on victims or their families etc.

Yet, within this very kink site's own discussion board, "play rape" is a popular topic. Usually comes under the loose heading of primal and animal acts. Go figger....

Apparently that's more pallatable to discuss openly than what I've asked here. <shrugs>

Focus.

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/7/2011 3:59:55 PM

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quote:

The big difference between femdom/malesub and Dom/femsub is that in the latter case, the femsub could get off on the fact that Dom could, if he wanted to, force her with his muscles.

Peon -
I would disagree with you here. The way you have expressed things (as a man) is actually in many ways how I feel as a powerful woman who does in fact know how to fight. One of the things people often like about me is that although I look like a sweetish, Wonder White Bread gal, I can take someone down in less than a minute, and I know it. (Does that make me Wonder White Bread Woman?) When I choose to trust someone - a man in the scenario you have mentioned - I again choose to put away my ability, my choice to fight. A man realistically CAN'T force me with his muscles. I'm not going to get into the whole psychology of attacks - as Bones pointed out, it's not relevant or productive for the discussion - however, in the d/s scenario, a woman who can fight and KNOWS she can fight, is doing no less than a man who also can fight and KNOWS he can fight.

ymmv,
sunshine

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/7/2011 6:36:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
I would disagree with you here. The way you have expressed things (as a man) is actually in many ways how I feel as a powerful woman who does in fact know how to fight. One of the things people often like about me is that although I look like a sweetish, Wonder White Bread gal, I can take someone down in less than a minute, and I know it. (Does that make me Wonder White Bread Woman?) When I choose to trust someone - a man in the scenario you have mentioned - I again choose to put away my ability, my choice to fight. A man realistically CAN'T force me with his muscles. I'm not going to get into the whole psychology of attacks - as Bones pointed out, it's not relevant or productive for the discussion - however, in the d/s scenario, a woman who can fight and KNOWS she can fight, is doing no less than a man who also can fight and KNOWS he can fight.

Hmmm.

OK. I'll fully take that point, if I could believe that a woman could pick me up, carry me to the bed, force my arms down, and sit on my cock. I think there's only one regular user of this forum who might just be able to do that. I'd really love to try it with her, as well: I'd give her no quarter, but I'd still hope she'd win. ;-)

Blimey, that just isn't the kind of physical strength I expect, nor look for, in a woman, Sunny. I don't think of bears when I think of femdoms, I think of snakes. Sexy snakes (in case you thought that was in some way an insulting animal-comparison).

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/7/2011 8:27:14 PM

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We like what we like! Though wouldn't LIKING oral make you a lesbian? This wild accusation stuff is so confusing!

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/7/2011 8:33:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

We like what we like! Though wouldn't LIKING oral make you a lesbian? This wild accusation stuff is so confusing!

I agree Hibby! That is my point, liking or NOT liking a sexual act doesn't make you anything. The comment to Focus that he was harboring latent homosexual tendencies because he didn't want anal penetration was stupid and judgmental. I was referring to the women that don't enjoy oral from men, does that make them lesbians secretlty? Ummm no. It means that don't enjoy oral, period, no biggie. The same should apply to men that don't enjoy anal play. I didn't make wild accusations I am actually against them and find them silly.

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/7/2011 8:35:30 PM

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Exactly! Just like the folks who accuse others of not being able to get a date. Schoolyard nonsense.

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/7/2011 8:56:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88
The comment to Focus that he was harboring latent homosexual tendencies because he didn't want anal penetration was stupid and judgmental. I was referring to the women that don't enjoy oral from men, does that make them lesbians secretlty? Ummm no. It means that don't enjoy oral, period, no biggie. The same should apply to men that don't enjoy anal play. I didn't make wild accusations I am actually against them and find them silly.

Focus has been on these boards for years, and I don't ever recall him being arrogant, or condescending to women. True I haven't read his every post, but men who behave that way, usually catch my attention, and I follow their posts, to see if it is a pattern, or my being overly sensitive.

I agree completely, that disliking anal makes anyone anything. I myself tried it a couple of times, hate it. Wish I were bi or lesbian, but I am who I am. M

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/8/2011 4:28:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyBossyBBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88
The comment to Focus that he was harboring latent homosexual tendencies because he didn't want anal penetration was stupid and judgmental. I was referring to the women that don't enjoy oral from men, does that make them lesbians secretlty? Ummm no. It means that don't enjoy oral, period, no biggie. The same should apply to men that don't enjoy anal play. I didn't make wild accusations I am actually against them and find them silly.

I agree completely, that disliking anal makes anyone anything. I myself tried it a couple of times, hate it.

It didn't occur to me to mention it in the OP (a "while you're back there" kinda thing.... lol) - that the doggie-sex I was referring to wasn't anything to do with anal. Catching or pitching, it's not my interest and I've never tried it anyway.

Focus.

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/8/2011 7:58:52 AM

Arpig

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I am sure the first date would be legendary, minstrels would sing of it for years to come....

Arpig, seeking a delicate bloom,
Took Lady Hib up to his room.
Where they argued all night
over who had the right;
to do what, and with which, and to whom.

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/8/2011 8:01:43 AM

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and right on time.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuyS9M8T03A

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/8/2011 8:25:12 AM

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We all have our quirks.ie mine,I like to have my nipples bitten when I cum does that make me weird perhaps so but I thin this whole thing has gotten off course.I believe it was slanted toward female Domient women and male subs..perhaps I am wrong but it won't be the first time be well all.Bounty

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RE: Dommes and Doggy-style. - 6/8/2011 10:04:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

I apologize, but I can't help to feel that this topic is quite silly.

Maybe its just my person view, but why is the issue of sex being made complicated?

I had sex for 6 hours yesterday and part of this morning, I'd say half that time, my boyfriend was taking me from behind. Its not about control at all, its about what feels good for the parties involved. My g spot can be hit super easily (like 2 strokes-type of easy) that way, and since my boyfriend is taller, it can be easer to have full range of me if I am bent over and my hips are higher up.

Who is in control isn't relevant.

Oh, good, someone said it. I think this topic is just silly as well. I think some men like to complicate things OR just be provocative to the Dommes.

I am a sub and I love getting fucked from behind, on top, cowgirl, reverse cowgirl, any way really. And guess what? I feel just as much power in any position as the guy does. Yes, even when he is on top and holding my wrists and all his weight is on me, I still have power.

Why? Because whatever feels good to me and him is power unto itself, no matter what position.

Oh, and I am also very jealous that you had sex for 6 hours.

(in reply to MissAsylum)

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