Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ?

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Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 5:58:18 AM

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From the debate hosted by Intelligence squared ltd in 2009, Actor/Author Stephen Fry locks horns with the Politician Anne Widdecombe on the subject;

Is the Catholic Church a Force for Good in the World

Stephen fry with his hilarious succinct and intelligent wit gets across some very important points, leading one to think the catholic church is indeed a scam, a scam that is perpetuated on the poor and uneducated in the world.

Some very interesting points raised ?

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 5:59:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Stephen fry with his hilarious succinct and intelligent wit gets across some very important points, leading one to think the catholic church is indeed a scam, a scam that is perpetuated on the poor and uneducated in the world.

Ive said that for decades.

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 8:29:51 AM

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like any church, business, individiual...it CAN be a force for good or it can be a force for evil.

When I was growing up many catholic churches clothed and fed me. They were a force for good for me.

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 8:37:24 AM

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The church as an entity would seem to, least in part, be about perpetuating itself - which needs money. And guess where the money comes from. But it also doesn't dictate tithing unlike some other religions.

As individuals, the members of the catholic church (as i am, most of the time) do incredible good in the world.

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 8:38:16 AM

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I would suggest that Liberation Theology, which originated from the Catholic Church, was partially a force of good, because of its emphasis on praxis over doctrine, and its attempts to alleviate the suffering of the poor. Of course, it didn't last. Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) was strictly opposed to the bottom-up decentralization it espoused, and ended up censuring or excommunicating the priests who supported it.

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 8:39:46 AM

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A lot of catholics are really good people and do good things. Others are total assholes and don't. Then you have the ones in the middle. Same with any religion or group that you can think of.

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 8:42:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

A lot of catholics are really good people and do good things. Others are total assholes and don't. Then you have the ones in the middle. Same with any religion or group that you can think of.

I agree. Do you know - I've even met atheists who are total assholes who never do anything good for anyone else.

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 8:46:19 AM

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In my opinion, it is one of the largest and most powerful and evil organizations in existance today.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 9:07:15 AM

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The Catholic Church is run by a FUCKING NAZI.

And if I have to explain to you why being a Nazi is a bad thing, then you're so out of touch with reality it's not worth even trying.

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 9:20:53 AM

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quote:

Some very interesting points raised ?

Absolutely. I have never believed that your average Catholic citizen condones the scam that is the Catholic church and that they are to a certain degree a victim of the system.

Furthermore, I find Ann Widdecombe's argument that we have to judge the immoral actions in context of the historical period to be a rather pitiful rebuttal. They are supposed to be an institution guided by an infallible god: they aren't allowed to make those kinds of mistakes. If I were to play the devil's advocate (pun intended) and consider her justification, then how would she explain what the Catholic church is doing in Africa right now. In this very day and age, the Catholic church is preaching the immorality and ungodliness of condom use, which in turn is contributing to the increase of the spread of aids in Africa. Oh sure they are also preaching abstinence, but look how that turned out for the Palins ;-) Will the Catholic church come around in 50 years time and tell us to look at all of this irresponsible behaviour in context? If so, the context will be decades of research that proves that the use of a condom can help save a life.

One a side note, if you appreciate Stephen Fry's wit, you may also appreciate Christopher Hitchens. I share with you a clip which I think was excerpt from the same discussion that your clip was taken from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOamsF5r3TE

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 10:38:25 AM

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quote:

One a side note, if you appreciate Stephen Fry's wit, you may also appreciate Christopher Hitchens. I share with you a clip which I think was excerpt from the same discussion that your clip was taken from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOamsF5r3TE

Ah yes, I had seen that one and do agree with what Hitchens says regarding Africa, AIDS and condoms, he is dead right, but then what is the church actually after if it by it's policies does not take any practical action to prevent the deaths of people

Now make no mistake people, I bear no ill will to those that believe whatever they do, as long as it harms none, but I do have a problem with churches especially the all powerful Catholic Church, which is as the debate said, the Catholic Church is an actual state with it's own military and bank.

You see, individual believers are not churches.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 10:46:26 AM

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quote:

You see, individual believers are not churches.

And churches would have no power without individual believers.

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 10:49:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Some very interesting points raised ?

Fry is my absolute idol, but he could just as well have stood up, said "No, it is not", and then say back down again.

It's to his credit he even bothered trying to explain :)

The Catholic church, as an entity, is one of the greatest forces of evil left in the world. As the world becomes more enlightened one can only hope they fall from favour.

ETA: the original, "plain" footage is far more powerful, IMHO:

http://youtu.be/CjeyhT1NVLQ

< Message edited by RapierFugue -- 7/31/2011 10:55:02 AM >

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 11:40:03 AM

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FR:

For those we believe that the Catholic Church is a force of evil in the world:

1. Do you believe that Christianity is a force of evil in the world?

2. Do you believe that Islam is a force of evil in the world?

Firm

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 11:40:41 AM

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The Catholic church is definitely a force for good: how else can a middle aged man get to fuck prepubescent children without being tarred and feathered by the Daily Mail?

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 11:41:09 AM

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Of course the CC is a force for good...its own good.

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 11:44:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

FR:

For those we believe that the Catholic Church is a force of evil in the world:

1. Do you believe that Christianity is a force of evil in the world?

2. Do you believe that Islam is a force of evil in the world?

Firm

I believe all religions have only one interest and that is to control its disciples and acquire more to control. In order to accomplish this, it has to instill fear in people, and fear is the root of all that is corrupt and evil in the world.

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 12:02:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
The Catholic Church is run by a FUCKING NAZI.

And if I have to explain to you why being a Nazi is a bad thing, then you're so out of touch with reality it's not worth even trying.

Thats untrue. He was in Hitler Youth at a time when it was obligatory and refusal meant being sent to a "re-education" camp. Since then he has acknowledged the suffering of the Jews and visited concentration camps.

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 12:09:40 PM

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The Catholic church is a demon cult prominent among those who worship the worst aspects of the desert god. A fit creed for those making war on children.

Where are the children's bodies? These Papal mummers do not even have the shred of decency to say. Some of the mass graves have already been found.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqPIh-267fg

Ravens name them as cursed for all time, their works poison, their altars stained with the blood of the innocent, and the devil they worship as a false god.

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RE: Is the Catholic Church a force for Good ? - 7/31/2011 12:12:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

FR:

For those we believe that the Catholic Church is a force of evil in the world:

1. Do you believe that Christianity is a force of evil in the world?

2. Do you believe that Islam is a force of evil in the world?

Firm

I think you misunderstand my words. It is my belief that churches are the evil, the people, usually men, usually people that have agendas that have nothing at all to do with religioun or caring for the parishioners, that lead/run those churches. That is where I feel the evil lies.

In addition, last I knew Catholicism is Christian.

The religious beliefs themselves are not, to me, the evil. They actually promote a lot of good. It depends upon the people and how they interpret those beliefs, how they use them that have the option of evil or good.

I feel the same way about any religious belief, including Islam.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

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