RE: what fucking community? (Full Version)

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HannahLynHeather -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 10:27:36 PM)

ok, lets take them one by one.
1: : a unified body of individuals: this clearly doesn't apply as we are not in any way unified, so it really discounts all the subdefinitions of 1, but fuck it, lets look at them anyway

a : state, commonwealth clearly has nothing to do with our discussion
b : the people with common interests living in a particular area; broadly : the area itself this is probably the one most of you will latch onto. well what's the common interest? bdsm? well what is bdsm? we recently argued for pages about just what the fuck bdsm meant, we've argued endlessly over whether it is sexual or not, to some it doesn't even include kinky sex. so clearly bdsm isn't our common interest because we don't even agree what bdsm is. so i ask again, what is the common interest?
c : an interacting population of various kinds of individuals (as species) in a common location no common location, unless you're going to claim the whole fucking planet is the common location <which would exclude one or two down in p&r> and that's just stretching the meaning stupidly to try be right.
d : a group of people with a common characteristic or interest living together within a larger society again, what is the common interest or characteristic?
e : a group linked by a common policy no common policy
f : a body of persons or nations having a common history or common social, economic, and political interests clearly inapplicable.
g : a body of persons of common and especially professional interests scattered through a larger society again, not applicable, no common interests
2 : society at large well, no, that one doesn't fit. [:D]
3a : joint ownership or participation clearly inapplicable
b : common character : likeness clearly inapplicable
c : social activity : fellowship applies to some but not all of us, so no, doesn't make us a community
d : a social state or condition and again, clearly inapplicable.

so where is this bdsm community?

and hausboy, even the "community" you were talking about was a gay bdsm community that didn't include all gay bdsmers, so it's a nice example of a small community that fits under the umbrella of bdsm, but it isn't, and never was a community of all bdsmers.



Icarys -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 10:32:39 PM)

quote:

there you have it, it's not a community, by fucking definition.

You didn't find one that fits because you didn't want to find one.

Don't be ignorant.



TheShrew -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 10:33:55 PM)

I agree with the OP in that, every kinkster on the planet does not automatically fall into some type of mystical, global, familial brood by virtue of an interest in one brand of kink or another. Most people I've met who enjoy the benefit of feeling themselves part of a dynamic they call "a community", are normally referring to a small group that is "their" community. They consider anyone practicing an alternative lifestyle [any variation/combination of BDSM] to be part of the "lifestyle."  Hell, many people still waste time arguing the definition of BDSM. I'm just posting to express how much I enjoyed the responses. Especially ..

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
We were doing this shit before they showed up and it won't matter one fucking bit if they go away.   I'm not going to kid you about where you are on the food chain.  The meal will still get served whether you're sitting at the table or not.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
... if there is a "golden era of BDSM", THIS is it. You don't get arrested, you have clubs, you have munches ... there are websites like this one and Fet ... You aren't going to be committed to a mental hospital for liking your ass whupped.

You are in the Golden Age


... and I really like this exchange.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09
Because these random people on the internet are enough of a community to ... have a real, emotional connection to other posters, some of whom they have never met, and probably never will. Isn't THAT what makes a community? What is a community if it's not a random group of people that have simply decided that they are one? Are you sure it's not a community, at least for some people? To me, it's really just a matter of perception.


quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather
i already conceded that these boards are a community of sorts, but it's not so much the bdsm as the continuous exchange of ideas that brings us together. we care for each other not for how we do our kink, but because of all the other shit we talk about.


ETA ~ My take on people referencing "community" and "lifestyle."



Icarys -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 10:38:11 PM)

Would you like to see what the definition of fellowship is as well?[:D]



HannahLynHeather -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 10:39:52 PM)

show me which one fits. i went through them one by one, which one am i ignoring.



Icarys -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 10:44:31 PM)

quote:

i already conceded that these boards are a community of sorts

I'll leave you with this.

And it's social activity to name an easy one.



Epytropos -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 10:56:08 PM)

A community is a body of people, which by definition does not literally exist. Just as with government, corporations, and religions, it exists only as a structural conception, and if everyone were to decide it did not exist that would immediately be true. Community allows us to fulfill the ancient desire for tribal bonds in an era where loyalties are expected to span millions of people. Some people define their community by where they were born or live, others by what they do for a living, and still others by their sexual proclivities. The only difference between these things is methodology - the effect and the urge are the same, and all they create is a filing system for the human race. For better or for worse.



LadyPact -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 11:06:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

ok, lets take them one by one.
1: : a unified body of individuals: this clearly doesn't apply as we are not in any way unified, so it really discounts all the subdefinitions of 1, but fuck it, lets look at them anyway

You're confusing "unified" with "always agree on everything".  Ask folks how 'unified' they are about keeping their clubs open or doing their annual fund raiser for AIDS awareness.  If we get into the us (the kinky folks) against them (the non kinky folks) even here on the boards, we close ranks pretty fast.

quote:

b : the people with common interests living in a particular area; broadly : the area itself this is probably the one most of you will latch onto. well what's the common interest? bdsm? well what is bdsm? we recently argued for pages about just what the fuck bdsm meant, we've argued endlessly over whether it is sexual or not, to some it doesn't even include kinky sex. so clearly bdsm isn't our common interest because we don't even agree what bdsm is. so i ask again, what is the common interest?

I'm not going to revisit the bondage, discipline, sadism, and masochism argument.  How about "alternative ways of living" instead?

quote:

c : an interacting population of various kinds of individuals (as species) in a common location no common location, unless you're going to claim the whole fucking planet is the common location <which would exclude one or two down in p&r> and that's just stretching the meaning stupidly to try be right.

If there's no common location, exactly where are all those munch groups meeting?

quote:

e : a group linked by a common policy no common policy

Plenty of common policies as they apply to groups or organizations.  What about dungeon rules or group by-laws?  TOS is absolutely a common policy.

quote:

f : a body of persons or nations having a common history or common social, economic, and political interests clearly inapplicable.

I'm on the fence about this one.  I'd have to think that a lot of the gay leather folks had common political interests.

quote:

3a : joint ownership or participation clearly inapplicable

So because not everybody plays in public dungeons, that joint participation is out for those of us who do?

quote:

c : social activity : fellowship applies to some but not all of us, so no, doesn't make us a community

Same thing.  Just because every kinky person on the planet doesn't go to their local munch doesn't stop it from being a social activity to those that do.

quote:

and hausboy, even the "community" you were talking about was a gay bdsm community that didn't include all gay bdsmers, so it's a nice example of a small community that fits under the umbrella of bdsm, but it isn't, and never was a community of all bdsmers.

You're really hung up on this 'all or nothing' stance.  How can you possibly ask more of a "BDSM community" that can't pass the same test as any other type of community, such as the town you live in?  Don't you have folks in your town who feel differently on all kinds of issues?  Do you think the Christian community agrees on everything?  Any other kind of community?



NuevaVida -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 11:23:03 PM)

~ Fast Reply ~

First, I haven't read the thread that brought this on.

I think sometimes people come in here saying "We're a community, we should all be tolerant of each other, etc." is silly.  Community in that respect doesn't apply.  I see "community" as a body of people.  Doesn't matter if we agree or disagree, like or dislike each other, whatever.  I live in a community.  You think we are all like minded?  Not a chance.  Along these lines, yeah, CM is a community of sorts. Not one in which we are all accepting and sit around singing kumbaya, but something brought us here...perhaps it's the commonality of wanting to read and post on a message board about alternative relationships.  We certainly don't owe each other anything, anymore than people do in other communities.  I think that's where people get confused.

So I agree with Pam, and I thought what she said about how we (or some) do jump in to check in on each other, advise each other, worry about each other - she gave great examples.  Your "philosophical question" thread fits nicely in that, too.

We all post here and as Icarys said, that puts us under a certain umbrella.  Doesn't matter what you want to call it.  Some consider it a community.  So what.



Icarys -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 11:24:39 PM)

quote:

Well, you're weird....... one of your best attributes, actually.

Thanks. [:D]



HannahLynHeather -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 11:25:32 PM)

yes i can, because the community i am saying doesn't exist is "THE community" as used by many to mean an all-encompassing community of bdsmers.

the arguments you make apply to local groups. i have already stated that these are individually each a community, or at least can be. none of those things apply to the many people who don't go to fucking munches and meets. therefore those people are not part of that community, therefore that community cannot be the one that these people are referring to.

similarly with the leather community and it's history, it applies to them and them alone, not to the rest of us, we're not part of that community, so it can't be THE community.

i didn't set the frame of reference, the fucking people claiming there is such a community did.

i never said there weren't various bdsm-related communities out there, i have repeatedly said there were. what i have said, and continue to say, is that there is no one community, there is no THE community that encompasses all bdsmers.

i almost agreed with the alternative ways of living, but that doesn't fit either, that would include warren jeffs and his ilk with their child brides - they are in an alternative way of living if anybody is.

you really are proving my fucking point here ladyp, in trying to show that there is a community, you are using the example of the people you deal with: a small subset of the whole of those who are into bdsm. there are communities, but no community, and that is my whole fucking point.




NuevaVida -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 11:29:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

yes i can, because the community i am saying doesn't exist is "THE community" as used by many to mean an all-encompassing community of bdsmers.



That I'll agree with.  The great big BDSM community in the sky is not a concept I subscribe to.



HannahLynHeather -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 11:34:08 PM)

and that is what this whole thread is about. [:)]



Icarys -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 11:35:36 PM)

quote:

the arguments you make apply to local groups.

I knew as I read LP's posts that you'd latch onto the obvious.

If you feel the need to rail against something, that's your right but in this case you are wrong, just as all are that bastardize a meaning for their own reasons then using it as an argument.

This is an online community. Period. It is a virtual apartment complex, town, state. There are many uses for the term community and most of them wouldn't apply here. Some do though, you've even "conceded" it so. This site was made for what?


When people bastardize words, it's no wonder we have problems communicating like we do. Maybe we need to search a dictionary and posts that on a topic before begin discussion. [:D]



HannahLynHeather -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 11:52:47 PM)

what the fucking fuck? you've been sleeping again haven't you? try to fucking follow the thread icky, the point you're belaboring was dealt with a long ways back in pam's post. i've already said this website is a community.

i'm not talking about individual communities, i'm talking about the all-encompassing community of all bdsm that some people seem to think exists.

next time, instead of concentrating on condescension, go for a little fucking comprehension.



gungadin09 -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 11:56:16 PM)

Sorry, i missed that one too.

pam



Aswad -> RE: what fucking community? (8/12/2011 11:59:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

yea. i mean just look at how much we agree about on here. [:D]


Distinguish between a community and a waterhole.

quote:

we can't even agree on what the words we use mean, how the fuck can we be considered a community?


Some subcultures are pretty consistent in this regard, actually. Others, not so much. Back when the Gorean side of the board was alive and well, before the noise drowned out everything interesting, it had an overall very consistent terminology, and sex wasn't one of the major topics at all. There was a community there, but it kind of died from the well being poisoned at an unfortunate time. Perhaps it'll eventually recover.

The offline scene back home, that I've avoided, despite a fairly standardized terminology.

Not sure terminology is a limiting factor.

Health,
al-Aswad.



0ldhen -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 4:57:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

HAHAHAHAAAAAAA you are so obviously not on Fetlife!



Lady H....I haz to admit...that was better than Days of Our Lives......



0ldhen -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 5:10:30 AM)



Hm....Ok.....there are some on these boards who are here for just a bit of heavy pettying one way or the other......


Then there are manywho actually "live" together here....we know each others happies and sads, how their parents, partners, Things are doing, who save their pennies for a chance to get together in RLRT and hang out.

Pay attenton, scroll through some stuff, see how many times somebody on the boards is having trouble that you'll see a post that says, "you have mail" "here is my phone number" "Ring" "come stay with me" "Holidays at my house" etc....

So yeah, in one sense, this is no more a community than any other web site.....Yet in another sense, it is, community is what you make of it..........



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 5:49:05 AM)

Community is a sociological construct used by scientists to model human interaction and behavior. As such, it may be easier to define what a community isn't as opposed to what it is. However, most agree a community can be at least partially defined as a group of humans interacting in a common location.

The internet has given rise to virtual communities with specific websites as the common location.

Although most BDSMers may be on the net and tied into various virtual and non-virtual communities, there is no one big BDSM community with a common location.

It can be argued that the net itself is the common location, making it one large virtual community with many sub communities or sub-cultures. But, like the "global community" location, it's far too large and interactive for scientists to adequately define the various patterns of human behavior w/o breaking it down to sub-sets.

Which means defining it as a community is not that useful.

Chatte, getting all pedantic on your ass this morning.



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