RE: what fucking community? (Full Version)

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HannahLynHeather -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 11:40:02 AM)

"we" are kinky folk:
not all of us. there are some who do not do any kinky stuff, they are all about the d/s and not about the kink at all - fail.

"we" live an alternate way of life according to what we feel is best for ourselves
not all of us, there are some who are all about the kink and live their lives in otherwise perfectly vanilla fashion - fail

"we" share a general interest in activities which is not widely accepted by main stream society.
so do necrophiliacs, pedophiles, & zoophiles, are they part of your community? - fail.

"we" gather at munches, dungeons, etc to be among others of our own kind.
not all of us, i'm willing to hazard that the majority do not - fail

The point is , we (in an overall sense) share a similar mindset
and what would that mindset be?

share many values
name just a few of these fucking values we all share.

a sense of being among others of our ilk that draws us to return time and time again
only in the broadest sense of the word, i'm mostly here because you will talk about kinky shit without getting your panties in a bunch too often, though it still happens when somebody pokes one of the sacred cows

you people keep trying to define the group of the whole as a community by defining subsets of it as a community. don't you realize that by doing so you are automatically excluding a large percentage of the whole, and thus proving my point that the whole is not a community.

come on people, think before you post, think this shit through for fuck's sake.



HannahLynHeather -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 11:52:47 AM)

quote:

You're still here.
completely and utterly fucking irrelevant to the point made in the op or anything i've been discussing since. for the last fucking time icky-baby-love, i'm not talking about here.





Wolf2Bear -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 11:54:30 AM)

~sigh~

Yes Hannah......my intent with placing the word we in exclamations was to convey that I wasn't saying it applies to every single person......only to indicate general and not a specific.

Sadly, unless I am wrong, my attempt failed.



SillyMan -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 11:56:26 AM)

are Mary's tits sweet?

sm



PeonForHer -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 11:56:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather
a sense of being among others of our ilk that draws us to return time and time again
only in the broadest sense of the word, i'm mostly here because you will talk about kinky shit without getting your panties in a bunch too often, though it still happens when somebody pokes one of the sacred cowsx


Pfft. That's it, right there. That's what makes this a community. That'll do, for me.



HannahLynHeather -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 11:56:58 AM)

quote:

she may have not seen
you mean the one only one anybody has pointed out? the same one everybody who is disputing my position is pointing out?



littlewonder -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 11:58:27 AM)

eehh...I'm not even here to talk about kinky sex. I'll talk about any topic whatsoever that seems to evade an interest. Take away the kinky talk and I'd probably still stick around just to waste time since it's pouring down rain and I'm waiting for it to stop so I can leave.




Icarys -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 11:58:45 AM)

quote:

i'm not talking about here.

[:D]



Wolf2Bear -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 12:03:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

she may have not seen
you mean the one only one anybody has pointed out? the same one everybody who is disputing my position is pointing out?


As I wrote  "may not" didn't say  "did not"  to do otherwise would be an incorrect presumption on my part. I can't nor will I speak whether everyone else is disputing your position, only they can verify that or not. All I can do is offer my thoughts as I see and interpret them.



PeonForHer -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 12:08:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

she may have not seen
you mean the one only one anybody has pointed out? the same one everybody who is disputing my position is pointing out?


I still can't see why you don't consider CM to be a community, Hannah. That seems very cold to me.



windchymes -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 12:12:09 PM)

Here's Ron's quote, in case anybody was interested. He emailed it to me.


'There is no center for the promulgation and maintenance of kinky values, no pope of rope, or magistrate extraordinaire of sadistic affairs.' Jack Rinella



crazyml -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 12:17:59 PM)

The "pope of rope" phrase is bloody marvellous.



PeonForHer -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 12:18:53 PM)

Sorry . . . how does that help, Windchymes?



HannahLynHeather -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 12:25:06 PM)

vc's point was acknowledged and i have repeatedly clarified exactly what i meant, if the op was to obscure for you, it's because as fucking usual you are grabbing a single bit of it instead of the whole, and you are ignoring the clarifications i made when questioned on those points. not unlike  the way you are viewing the issue we are debating, in microcosm and ignoring details that are inconvenient to your position.

now on to your points. you say my glasses wearing example isn't valid because it isn't an activity or a matter choice. fair enough, we'll work with your new definition, i have no objection to doing so, in fact it is the whole idea, to try pin down what it is.

in that case then you are a member of the horn-rimmed glasses community, as that is clearly a matter of choice. still equally stupid, but now it's in line with your definition. you are also part of the shitting community because that is an activity, or better yet the toilet using community because that is both an activity and a choice. there, some equally absurd examples that now fit into your new narrower definition of a community. i brush my hair rather than comb it - an activity i do by choice, but that doesn't make me part of the brush community as opposed to the comb community. the end result of this is that it takes more than a single snippet of commonality to form a community.

quote:

No, pedophiles don't fit into my notion of the bdsm community - which of course, supports my point rather doesn't it - You, despite your shouting, have a pretty clear idea of who I would place in and out of the community.
no, it does the exact opposite, because pedophiles fit your definition of what constitutes membership in the bdsm community. take it a step further, a pedophile who likes to spank - now that fits in perfectly, yet you aren't going to welcome him with open arms any fucking time soon. so there is more than just being part of "a group of people into kink/alternative lifestyle" because he most fucking certainly is part of that group. see, in order to define the community in broad enough terms to make it actually fucking applicable, you suddenly include others in your definition who you would not include in your community.

so, as you can plainly see, much like the "but we go to munches" crowd, the more you continue your line of reasoning, the more you prove my premise.



HannahLynHeather -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 12:29:26 PM)

quote:

Sorry . . . how does that help, Windchymes?
points out that there is no central authority of bdsm. while not directly germane to the is there or isn't there a community debate, it at least establishes that if there is such a community, then it has no governing body.

this, hopefully, we can for the most part agree on. [:D]



LadyPact -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 12:31:19 PM)

Hannah, by any chance are you related to Bill Clinton?

I'm just waking up, so I might be off the mark but the problem here, as it appears to Me, isn't necessarily that you want to debate the word "community".  The problem is that you want to debate the word "the" as in "the community".  Hang with Me here, because there is a difference.

If I come along and write a post that says, "I'm going to a community event," that can mean any number of things.  It could be My local munch or it could mean that I'm attending SELF (sorry,that's Southeast Leather Fest) two thousand miles away.  Both of those activities qualify as a community event, depending on which "community" I'm referencing.

The very same applies to your original post.

quote:

i keep seeing people post shit like "people in the community should be more welcoming", or "being hard on newbies will drive them away from the lifestyle".

Well, let's use some common sense here.  Where did you see it?  Right here.  The message board that you have all ready conceded is "a form of" if not "the" community.

quote:


this isn't a community, there is no community, not online not offline

Same thing.  The boards, as you've said are 'a community'.  You've also agreed that there can be such a thing as 'a local BDSM community' or 'a leather community'.  A hypothetical that we see around here from time to time is one that goes something like this:

"Oh we went to a munch and nobody talked to us.  They were all assholes.  Why aren't people more welcoming in the community?"

In that scenario, the term "community" really does apply more than the word "the" because that's not a universal experience at all local communities.  Some communities go out of their way to make sure the above doesn't happen.  Others don't.

One quick mention in regards to the leather community, which has a very significant difference to what some folks would call the kink or BDSM community.  Many of us see that in a much different way because living a leather life does include community participation.  Whether that's attending clubs, or supporting leather owned businesses, fund raising for causes that effect us, or coming together when one of us is in a time of need.  Doing those things really is a part of living a leather lifestyle and it's part of the bond that makes us 'a leather community'.

Those things really are different than "the community" which seems to be the word "the" translating into "the all encumbering, all kinky, all authority dynamic desiring or living, must converge in the same place, wild sex having community covering the planet"...........  No, you're probably just not going to get that.





hausboy -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 12:31:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

ok hausboy, here's the fucking deal ok

donatien alphonse françois, marquis de sade (2 june 1740 – 2 december 1814)
leopold ritter von sacher-masoch (27 january 1836 – 9 march 1895)

people were doing this shit a long fucking time before the first leather dude pulled on his skins. you are confusing your experience for that of the fucking world. this is the last i'm going to say on the subject, if you want to debate the importance of the leather culture to the world of bdsm then start a thread to do that. it's not germane to the discussion here, and any attempt to claim that the leather movement is the bdsm world, or that it's history is the history of bdsm, or that it is in any way responsible for bdsm, or is its founder, or in any way the fountain head of kink is just sheer stupidity in the face of obvious reality, and it is beneath a person of your intelligence.


Hi Hannah
I didn't list the Marquis de Sade...or Pauline Reage...or Alice Kerr-Sutherland (my fave!) and one of my favorite books was actually a collection of erotic BDSM photos from the 1920's.  And although I don't believe there are cave paintings to prove it, I'm sure that there was plenty o' butt whackin' long before anyone had a word for it.  My point was not that BDSM is a novel concept or "new" historically. Of course it isn't.

Your thread was on the concept of community--or lack thereof- in BDSM.  Part of a community is its culture, however fabricated one may believe that culture to be, and a part of the culture is the history--I brought up history in response to your comment about there not being history, or history being irrelevant as it related to Icarys' posted definition of Community. 

Others may differentiate between BDSM folks and the leatherfolks--I do not. Mea culpa.  I was contemplating starting a thread on that--and history, but given the lukewarm reception the topic has been given here, I'm not really sure anyone would be really interested beyond the usual name-calling that most threads seem to dissolve into.  I didn't think I was committing a cardinal posting sin--it was relevant to the discussion that had been ongoing.

Hannah, I've come to know that you have a very distinctive posting style, and so I am not offended by your comments. I can only assure you (yes, I know. you probably "don't fucking care." it's all good.) that I am well aware that my experience is not the experience of the world, but I do live in the realms of reality.  I share my viewpoints here for precisely that reason-- I offer a different view and a slice of a different experience to add to the mix of all of the other viewpoints and experiences that are shared here on CollarMe.



PeonForHer -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 12:32:45 PM)

ETA

OK. I'll stop taking the piss now. . . . [;)]



windchymes -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 12:33:44 PM)

Well, if you read post 147, you'll see that Hannah made this comment

that's pretty much what prompted the thread, and is pretty much my reason for rejecting the idea of a bdsm community being anything but a convenient shorthand way of referring to us in general. it's a fucking easy phrase to use, as you said, less keystrokes, but essentially meaningless.

in response to a comment I made. Her comment reminded me of the Jack Rinella quote that Ron used to use in his sigline, but I couldn't remember its exact wording. He emailed me with it, and I thought I would post it because I thought it might be of interest to some people, if only for a millisecond.

I realize that the troops are still in the Middle East, the streets in London are still in a shambles and that the juries are still out on the definitions of "community" and "we", but since it evoked a response in at least one person in here, then by God, the world is just a tiny bit better because I posted it. [8|]



windchymes -> RE: what fucking community? (8/13/2011 12:35:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

Sorry . . . how does that help, Windchymes?
points out that there is no central authority of bdsm. while not directly germane to the is there or isn't there a community debate, it at least establishes that if there is such a community, then it has no governing body.

this, hopefully, we can for the most part agree on. [:D]


I actually hadn't disagreed with anything you said. I just ventured off the beaten track a little bit. It's what I do. [:D]



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