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Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 2:35:10 AM   
chastityslaveFE


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This post is the result of a number of thoughts recently, and I just wanted to throw them open to the board and get a broad response of different opinions.

Training is such a cliched word, yet if I think about it, it holds quite a serious meaning for me.

When I very first started in BDSM, my first Owner (who was, horror! an online and phone Dom, although we did meet and play several times) was very keen on training.  Everything was possible training to him - he handed out orgasms the way a dog trainer hands out choc treats. I learned to associate everything with pleasure, including the newly discovered pain.  I must admit, I liked this approach very much, I learnt loads, I grew as a submissive in leaps and bounds.  It just seemed so easy, and pleasurable.

Fast forward ten years, and my present Owner is not really the training type.  In his own words, he prefers to 'explain' than to train, and this has served us well for several years, and gotten me to a deeper, perhaps more voluntary and less manipulated submission than I might have been otherwise.  So I can see both sides of the coin.

Recently I started talking to a couple who are embarking on their D/s journey - they want everything, right now!  He wants the perfect, obedient little slave, and I keep trying to explain that it doesn't really work like that - it doesn't just happen instantly, no matter how much you want it.  No matter how much she wants it, you still need to train her to be able to do it!

And then today I was answering another question somewhere from a fella whose girlfriend wanted a TPE, but whom were struggling - no mention was made of training.  It seemed to be assumed that if she wanted it, she shoulds just be able to do it, no problems.  (That's never been true for me, is it true for anyone?  Perhaps more perfect submissive types.)

So, pulling all of this together, my question is - what role does training occupy in your relationship?  Is it more for the beginning or is it always ongoing?  And how do you train?  When I was trying to give an example I said to wait till she is relaxed, submissive, perhaps play a little with her or get her aroused, and then tell her what you want from her, how to behave for you, how you will reward or punish her - make it clear, don't make her have to guess what you want and get it wrong, that's just demoralising.  And don't let her do it, and get it right without rewarding her - at least a word of praise, or a hug.  But is this true of the way everyone trains?  What is your training style?  And if you had to teach it to someone else, how would you do that?

The more information the better.  Sometimes I think we spend a lot of time using words, and very little time discussing the actual activities behind those words.  What does training mean to you?  And how has it played a part in your BDSM journey so far?

chastity xxx
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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 2:40:42 AM   
MyVision


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I prefer guidance..instead of training.
I want a slave or sub...to be submissive..because she wants it. I don't want to train her "to become" submissive.
Guiding her in her journey...that is what I can do.
It is more learning on the way..if that makes sense. I don;t make plans or schedules. Life mostly confronts you with situations that can be discussed.

(in reply to chastityslaveFE)
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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 3:54:57 AM   
Charnegui


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I go along with MyVision, it is guidance, not training.

And along with 'mission accomplished' you should reward, even it isn't accomplished in perfectness.  Like dogs we are more responsefull to compliments and hugs than on silence or harsh words.

In my previous experience I had to guess what pleased him, I had to figure out, what kind of s he was looking for. No guidance whatsoever, so this went awfully wrong. And as I am a very communicative person, I did not get any response to my questions asked, so I did things I didnot feel very well by. Just out of love for him and fear of loosing. Not the best situation there is, to live by.

I have told my Love (who's experienced in the lifestyle) to have patience with me, b/c when I volunteer to do something, he is getting more of my submission as tho he should force me to do something. And the further we grow into our relationship together the more I am willing to do for him. At least this is the way it works for me.

To simplify: I want him to be proud of me and he wants me to make him proud. And the more he tells me, the more I want to give him, to hear more of it.



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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 5:48:28 AM   
SirLucifer


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Rules, rules, rules! I enforce them strictly. If the rules are followed and training assignments are accomplished properly there are rewards.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 5:49:21 AM   
lizi


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My Dom and I have a relationship first as two people who love each other. We get the most out of simply being together as opposed to being kinky together, and are pretty vanilla in how we conduct our relationship. We have never actually used the word training to refer to anything we do, the concept doesn't really apply. D/s is the foundation of how our relationship is structured, we both respect what it means to us, then we just carry on from there. We want him in charge, we want kink, we don't conduct ourselves much different from the usual couple outside of that.

I know the word/concept of training can be exciting and meaningful to lots of people and that's great. However, the word is very distasteful to me because it's one of those terms that seems to have become rather idiotic. People apply all sorts of pompous importance to it while the meaning never is clear from one person to the next, and it is also used often to take advantage of others. If I were ever to be looking again and someone referred to wanting to train me, I'd be out of there like lightning. It just rubs me the wrong way.

Either I respect you enough to do what you say or I don't. Respect cannot be artificially constructed in a relationship by 'training', respect comes from your knowledge and trust of someone.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 6:00:41 AM   
BonesFromAsh


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I've always found it rather ironic that the sub/slave is the only one to go through a period of "training"...or at least the only one who gets talked about the most.

Then again, I don't seen "training" to be an endless array of menial tasks, silly "assignments" or sex play. For me, training is nothing more than receiving or sharing knowledge meant to enhance an individual's ability to perform a role or task to the best of their ability.

Which, if you look at it that way, means a dominant can and should undergo their own form of "training" as a way of refining their own skills.

Imagine that...a dom/domme being trained. Shocking, ain't it?

< Message edited by BonesFromAsh -- 8/23/2011 6:03:25 AM >

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 6:10:55 AM   
Lockit


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When someone comes to me and states that they wish to be trained... one of my first questions is, trained in what? That comes with facial expressions from the rolling of eyes, to eye brows going up or down, smiles or frowns and most often a file cabinet or trash bin moment.

Some have (in my opinion) been shown that we dominant's want to train them and it is a trigger word for many. Shall I beat my chest, get all egotistical and think I am really something special because someone wants me to train them? Shall I jump right on that? Oh hell no... lol There are things I will quickly run from... like snakes or people in masks trying to do me harm... so words won't make me run... but I will swiftly walk away.

As I am getting to know someone, they will see what I want and need in my life and partner and I will tell them what is important to me and what I expect to share. Then there are things that I don't expect, but would be nice or I really don't care either way about. Does one need to be trained to serve me? I don't think so. I want a cup of coffee in the morning. I like a bit of sugar in it and I like it hot, on my table next to me. How much friggin training must one do to get that? I tell them, my mornings are tough and when I evaluate what I face that day and what I will be doing. I will decide if it isn't decided already, what they will be doing, but they know already that I want my coffee, my milk and anything else I might need in that moment and then them kneeling beside me as we start our day. Now that takes a lot of training doesn't it?

That isn't all there is to it and I don't mean to make light of it, but really, day in and day out, I see no call for training. I see a huge need for communication, exploration, explanation and expectation... and that goes both ways. If my sharing what I expect from a submissive/slave is it called training? Well... how about when he shares with me what he expects in a relationship? Is he training me? No... we are balancing out self, real life and a relationship of some sort, together. I call that learning one another and giving a damn enough to want to learn and actually be involved with one another, whatever our 'role' might be.


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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 6:13:03 AM   
DesFIP


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I need a learning curve. Habits take time to make and to break. So when he's trying to break a habit or a style of doing things that I've done for 30 or 40 years, it will take more than one time to change it. The less you see each other, the longer it takes to make it a new habit. Don't punish me for having an ingrained habit, remind me when you see me do it wrong and have me do it over.

He wants me to wait for him to open my door. But as we were ldr in the beginning that meant for six weeks straight I would open all my own doors, not wait for someone else. When we would get together for a weekend, he would see me reach for the handle and remind me to sit there till he came around. No punishment, no reprimand, no stress. He was just watchful and caught me before I could do it, and remind me of what he wanted.

We've been together eight years now and I'm still not the perfect obedient slave. I may never be. Because life keeps tossing new stress in our way that prevents this.


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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 6:28:09 AM   
DecadentDesire


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE
When I very first started in BDSM, my first Owner (who was, horror! an online and phone Dom, although we did meet and play several times) was very keen on training.  Everything was possible training to him - he handed out orgasms the way a dog trainer hands out choc treats. I learned to associate everything with pleasure, including the newly discovered pain.  I must admit, I liked this approach very much, I learnt loads, I grew as a submissive in leaps and bounds.  It just seemed so easy, and pleasurable.


Yeah, "training" plays a part in my relationship, but not this kind of "training". The problem I have with this kind of "training" is that I don't really see it as "training", but rather sexual roleplaying... which is cool as long as we call a spade, a spade.

Don't get me wrong. I love creating some arbitrary rule like "Don't remove your hands", enforced by some fun, sexual punishment that we both find hot and stimulating as much as the next guy. However, I think it's an unwise action to take this out of the bedroom and use it to try and overcome obstacles in my relationships.

Not only do I not want doing things for me to be associated with receiving orgasms, but sexual energy is fleeting and begs the question of "What the hell am I going to do when she/he is not horny?".

For day-to-day, normal issues. guidance and explanation work the best, because you are working to establish something deeper and more solid then a sexual orgasm. When someone does what I want, then instead of sexual pleasure as a reward, I focus on other positive, more long term things like how it made me happy and how that made her feel in return, how smooth, non-dramatic, and enjoyable the relationship is when she isn't resisting me, and any direct satisfaction she may receive from the act of submitting itself.


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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 6:44:22 AM   
chastityslaveFE


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Fast Reply: Lizi, I find it very interesting what you say about respect and perhaps it gets to the crux of the issue. If I am reading you correctly, respect is the reason why you submit and that is either there or not there, depending on who it is. For me, pleasure is the reason I submit (I've always defined myself as a masochist who likes to submit, rather than an outright submissive) so training is the process by which something the Dom wants becomes pleasurable to me and thus, something I want. Of course I can be submissive and obedient without this, sometimes Sir prefers that I do it for him rather than my own pleasure, but the act remains something that he wants, rather than what I want and I merely feel submissive, rather than actively enjoying it. I would like to ask those who are not interested in training, how do they learn to enjoy or accept things which they did not previously? For example, pain that is too much for them or a toy that they struggle to take? Is there any training in these situations or is it merely that they are expected to accept it, even if they do not enjoy it? And if so, how does that interact with their overall relationship satisfaction? ie. If you prefer the feeling of submitting to something you don't personally enjoy in order to please your Dominant? thanks, chastity xxx

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 7:11:31 AM   
chastityslaveFE


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Fast Reply: Decadent Desires. Of course you are correct that orgasms are not the only way of training, I hope I should know this after being denied for so long! Praise and positive attention can be just as rewarding. But I still feel there is something to be said for using pleasure as a motivator. For example, something I have never liked is doing the cleaning, it feels bad and exploitative to me. An easy solution would be to associate it with something I like or find arousing, very quickly I begin to enjoy it and am very willing to do it. My question would be, if they don't enjoy doing it, and the feeling of pleasing you is not enough to make it enjoyable, then where do you go from there? I know us submissives are meant to be selfless and loving of service, but sometimes there is only so far that will take you, and obedience sometimes doesn't result in happiness for the submissive. Without associating the activity with their pleasure, how would you change that? thanks, chastity xxx

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 7:44:11 AM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi

My Dom and I have a relationship first as two people who love each other. We get the most out of simply being together as opposed to being kinky together, and are pretty vanilla in how we conduct our relationship. We have never actually used the word training to refer to anything we do, the concept doesn't really apply. D/s is the foundation of how our relationship is structured, we both respect what it means to us, then we just carry on from there. We want him in charge, we want kink, we don't conduct ourselves much different from the usual couple outside of that.


This pretty much sums it up for us. We're a married couple with a home, cars, jobs and dogs. It's about being together in a relationship where we have agreed that he has the lead. While the kinky sex and play times are fun, it's a small part of our relationship. Yes, there are things that he wants done in a certain manner, but those are brought around by just reminding me and making it into a habit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE
For example, something I have never liked is doing the cleaning, it feels bad and exploitative to me. An easy solution would be to associate it with something I like or find arousing, very quickly I begin to enjoy it and am very willing to do it. My question would be, if they don't enjoy doing it, and the feeling of pleasing you is not enough to make it enjoyable, then where do you go from there? I know us submissives are meant to be selfless and loving of service, but sometimes there is only so far that will take you, and obedience sometimes doesn't result in happiness for the submissive. Without associating the activity with their pleasure, how would you change that? thanks, chastity xxx
Why do I have to enjoy everything? I hate cleaning. I don't do it to please him. I do it because it needs to get done. We all have things that we dislike doing, it's part of life.



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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 8:34:26 AM   
poise


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE

Of course you are correct that orgasms are not the only way of training, I hope I should know this after being denied for so long! Praise and positive attention can be just as rewarding. But I still feel there is something to be said for using pleasure as a motivator. For example, something I have never liked is doing the cleaning, it feels bad and exploitative to me. An easy solution would be to associate it with something I like or find arousing, very quickly I begin to enjoy it and am very willing to do it. My question would be, if they don't enjoy doing it, and the feeling of pleasing you is not enough to make it enjoyable, then where do you go from there? I know us submissives are meant to be selfless and loving of service, but sometimes there is only so far that will take you, and obedience sometimes doesn't result in happiness for the submissive. Without associating the activity with their pleasure, how would you change that? thanks, chastity xxx


I would imagine this would be where lack of compatibility comes in, and the relationship ends.
I find it would be draining on a man, dominant or otherwise, to have to dangle a reward in
front of someone for every action requested of them.

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 8:34:39 AM   
HannahLynHeather


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quote:

what role does training occupy in your relationship?
none. i don't train her, she's not a fucking dog. she's an intelligent woman who wants to submit and so all i have to do is tell her what i fucking want from her and she does it. if you mean by training, getting her to do shit the way i want it done, same fucking answer. i tell her how i want it, and oddly fucking enough, she does it that way. she does shit when i tell her to and she does it the way i fucking tell her to. i know, fucking amazing!

the whole idea of "training" is bullshit. it's like "punishment". it's fucking role playing. fancy fucking words to dress up an excuse to do what you want to. the dominant is supposed to be able to have shit their way, so just require it that way. the submissive is supposed to want shit the dominants way, so just do it their way. it's not fucking complicated.

when shit isn't working, you sit down like fucking adults and discuss it, you don't put on your domly cloak and "train" the bitch, you work it out together like fucking grown ups.

if you need to train her to submit, then maybe you should look for somebody who fucking well wants to submit instead.


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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 8:45:26 AM   
HannahLynHeather


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quote:

My question would be, if they don't enjoy doing it, and the feeling of pleasing you is not enough to make it enjoyable, then where do you go from there?
back to the drawing board, back to the fucking dating pool. like i said, if you want somebody to submit to you, go find somebody who wants to fucking submit. if she needs constant reward beyond submitting - well isn't that what we call a do-me sub?

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clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

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i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 9:17:26 AM   
SimplyMichael


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The concept of "trainers" is for the most part idiocy, primarily because who the fuck are they training them for? I have yet to license anyone to do training for me and I doubt any of you have either, lol.

However, "training" of partners occurs in every relationship and is done in both directions. Relationships are about training each other to work better together. A slave moans loudly when her owner does X, owner just got trained, even if it was to deny her X because he is a sadist. Slave goes to an ugly dark place when X is done, smart owner sees an opportunity to keep her emotionally safe and changes or stops doing X. These are crude examples but make the point.

I use orgasm training to sexualize acts I want to train someone to enjoy. I enjoy gagging my woman with my hands while I fuck her from behind. She is pretty orgasmic to start with and so I incorporate various things, including orgasm to train her to cum when I fuck her mouth with my hand with the ultimate goal of getting her to orgasm when I fuck her mouth with my cock.

More lofty relationship things work the same way. Training adults is more complicated than pets or children but the foundations are the same. You can explain things to an adult and if their mental framework can incorporate it, you can often get them to internalize those changes but few adults can internalize whatever their partner wants and that is where training comes in. Finding what sort of positive and negative reinforcements work is part of what seperates talented dominants from hacks and the more independant and self aware the adult is, the higher the corresponding skill needed to train them.


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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 9:55:16 AM   
DecadentDesire


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Joined: 6/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE
My question would be, if they don't enjoy doing it, and the feeling of pleasing you is not enough to make it enjoyable, then where do you go from there?





I don't like taking out the trash. I don't like recording expenses in my budget. I would much rather do a whole host of activities over those two. However, I do both, because it's required for having a balanced life.

The sad truth is a good percentage of our lives is spent doing things we would rather not be doing. This ranges from sitting in traffic to paying taxes. In most cases, there isn't someone at the other end holding an orgasm on the end of a stick to get us to do it. I would find it hard to take any adult serious who needed me to entice them with sexual pleasure just to get them to accomplish the basic chores of life.

If I have a behavior that I expect someone to adopt and they utterly hate it, then it becomes a question of whether or not I am willing to sacrifice that behavior for the sake of the relationship. If I am not, then they have to work past it or make use of the door.

Using sexual pleasure as a bargaining chip (because when it comes to adults, that's usually what it is) to get what I want lays down a very, very poor foundation for a long lasting D/S relationship. As such, in my opinion, that kind of stuff needs to stay in the bedroom as it is the only place it belongs.



< Message edited by DecadentDesire -- 8/23/2011 9:56:18 AM >


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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 9:59:22 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The concept of "trainers" is for the most part idiocy, primarily because who the fuck are they training them for? I have yet to license anyone to do training for me and I doubt any of you have either, lol.

However, "training" of partners occurs in every relationship and is done in both directions. Relationships are about training each other to work better together. A slave moans loudly when her owner does X, owner just got trained, even if it was to deny her X because he is a sadist. Slave goes to an ugly dark place when X is done, smart owner sees an opportunity to keep her emotionally safe and changes or stops doing X. These are crude examples but make the point.

I use orgasm training to sexualize acts I want to train someone to enjoy. I enjoy gagging my woman with my hands while I fuck her from behind. She is pretty orgasmic to start with and so I incorporate various things, including orgasm to train her to cum when I fuck her mouth with my hand with the ultimate goal of getting her to orgasm when I fuck her mouth with my cock.

More lofty relationship things work the same way. Training adults is more complicated than pets or children but the foundations are the same. You can explain things to an adult and if their mental framework can incorporate it, you can often get them to internalize those changes but few adults can internalize whatever their partner wants and that is where training comes in. Finding what sort of positive and negative reinforcements work is part of what seperates talented dominants from hacks and the more independant and self aware the adult is, the higher the corresponding skill needed to train them.




I'm inclined to agree with most of this; for M and I, anyway.

The sexual aspect of our life is far easier.........it's a mutually enjoyable activity to *train* me to enjoy things I'd probably skip altogether if given a choice. Good times.

When it comes to our everyday life, it's far more complicated. It's not always super-duper to have to do what M says. It's certainly straightforward but it's still just annoying and frustrating sometimes and that has a price.

He's had to learn how to own ME just as much as I've had to learn to be owned by him.

We've been together for many years and we still are finding out about each other, we still both cause each other bother and we still have to get our heads together to thrash things out.

agirl






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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 10:25:54 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

quote:

ORIGINAL: chastityslaveFE
My question would be, if they don't enjoy doing it, and the feeling of pleasing you is not enough to make it enjoyable, then where do you go from there?





I don't like taking out the trash. I don't like recording expenses in my budget. I would much rather do a whole host of activities over those two. However, I do both, because it's required for having a balanced life.

The sad truth is a good percentage of our lives is spent doing things we would rather not be doing. This ranges from sitting in traffic to paying taxes. In most cases, there isn't someone at the other end holding an orgasm on the end of a stick to get us to do it. I would find it hard to take any adult serious who needed me to entice them with sexual pleasure just to get them to accomplish the basic chores of life.

If I have a behavior that I expect someone to adopt and they utterly hate it, then it becomes a question of whether or not I am willing to sacrifice that behavior for the sake of the relationship. If I am not, then they have to work past it or make use of the door.

Using sexual pleasure as a bargaining chip (because when it comes to adults, that's usually what it is) to get what I want lays down a very, very poor foundation for a long lasting D/S relationship. As such, in my opinion, that kind of stuff needs to stay in the bedroom as it is the only place it belongs.




and yes, this too. Sexual activities, including orgasms would be a totally wasted effort if it was meant to make cutting the hedges seem worth it........I'd rather go without.......... :) Cost/benefit.

I do boring, dire, mind-numbing crap because I have to, I admit that the threat of a strap around my arse can get it done a lot quicker, but isn't that the whole point of *knowing when to use the carrot or stick*? 

You have to know your victim. :)

agirl












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RE: Training in your Relationship - 8/23/2011 10:42:02 AM   
Arpig


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quote:

Using sexual pleasure as a bargaining chip (because when it comes to adults, that's usually what it is) to get what I want lays down a very, very poor foundation for a long lasting D/S relationship.
Or a long lasting vanilla relationship. It's sort of like the flip side of emotional blackmail.

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Profile   Post #: 20
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