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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 11:10:18 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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Their definition of masochist is so narrow I would be defined as abnormal in their world. My body has been known to look like a war zone though I admit it's been a while. One of the good things about walking with a cane is that if I wince when sitting down noone thinks twice. They assume that my hip is acting up.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 11:13:15 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Epytropos

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

REALLY bad decisions can also leave you dead. I do agree with you though and in fact have done exactly that with two men. I knew both really well and did check them out beforehand but I stayed with them right from the first trip to meet them.Had a great time too.

I was more referring to a distinction between meeting in real life and trying to interact online - the distinction in how cautious people are between the two is baffling for me. It's like people are really convinced they can look me in the eye and tell whether or not I'm a psychopath in a few hours, but doing it from my writing is all but impossible. It just strikes me as something close to a phobia - if people were that fearful of others in day to day life they'd never leave the house. Why are internet people inherently more scary than regular people?

Ah okay I get what you are saying. I agree, my preference is to meet asap. It's nice to read what people have to say online but I think more can be learned by meeting. Seeing how they treat the waitstaff is a great way to weed someone out - or not.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 11:34:00 AM

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I'll give you the point that the book is probably more geared to BDSM light. (The comparison to Castle Realm is probably fitting.) It isn't the best fit for those who have been in the scene for a while and it's probably not the one that I would recommend for those who lean more toward the M/s, rather than the D/s angle.

For a beginner, however, I still think it's worth the price. The sections on anatomy (where to hit/not hit) and tips on toy making are valuable. There's enough sprinkling of various topics to give a person a head's up on getting out there and trying things out with a partner, which in My opinion means it serves it's purpose.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 1:33:17 PM

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Got one chapter in, put it down, and never touched it again.

No thanks for that one.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 1:38:35 PM

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imo I think the book should be forgotten from memory in bdsm. Imo that book gives even the newbies bad impressions that there's one way to do things, that there are rules, etc...and imo those newbies who come here talking in such a manner are probably the ones who have read the book and now think that's the way it should be done instead of just using their own common sense and if they don't have any common sense then that weeds them out pretty quickly and shouldn't be doing bdsm in the first place.

Then again I don't believe in coddling people or treating them like little children. If you're an adult and still don't know a lot of normal relationship stuff then you need some social skills...not bdsm skills.

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 9/4/2011 1:39:06 PM >

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 1:46:48 PM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

imo I think the book should be forgotten from memory in bdsm. Imo that book gives even the newbies bad impressions that there's one way to do things, that there are rules, etc...and imo those newbies who come here talking in such a manner are probably the ones who have read the book and now think that's the way it should be done instead of just using their own common sense and if they don't have any common sense then that weeds them out pretty quickly and shouldn't be doing bdsm in the first place.

Then again I don't believe in coddling people or treating them like little children. If you're an adult and still don't know a lot of normal relationship stuff then you need some social skills...not bdsm skills.

I agree wholeheartedly lw. I'm thankful that I learned from people who have experienced a wide variety of stuff, most notably an awesome local Dom, instead of by reading that book.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 2:02:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

imo I think the book should be forgotten from memory in bdsm. Imo that book gives even the newbies bad impressions that there's one way to do things, that there are rules, etc...and imo those newbies who come here talking in such a manner are probably the ones who have read the book and now think that's the way it should be done instead of just using their own common sense and if they don't have any common sense then that weeds them out pretty quickly and shouldn't be doing bdsm in the first place.

Then again I don't believe in coddling people or treating them like little children. If you're an adult and still don't know a lot of normal relationship stuff then you need some social skills...not bdsm skills.

I don't know if I'd really go that far.

I think it should also be taken into account the "when" of the book was written. It must have been something of a scary proposition to both the authors and the publishers, at that point in time. Can you just imagine how poorly received a 'hard core' book would have been? People would have went screaming from the hills. There's no success in that.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 5:14:55 PM

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FR
I read it and thought it was ok. Never once did I feel that I should follow their way and no other, as I was already kinked and into this stuff. It seemed like a logical book to show someone who was just starting out and still uncomfy with their kinky desires.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 6:15:23 PM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

imo I think the book should be forgotten from memory in bdsm. Imo that book gives even the newbies bad impressions that there's one way to do things, that there are rules, etc...and imo those newbies who come here talking in such a manner are probably the ones who have read the book and now think that's the way it should be done instead of just using their own common sense and if they don't have any common sense then that weeds them out pretty quickly and shouldn't be doing bdsm in the first place.

Then again I don't believe in coddling people or treating them like little children. If you're an adult and still don't know a lot of normal relationship stuff then you need some social skills...not bdsm skills.

I don't know if I'd really go that far.

I think it should also be taken into account the "when" of the book was written. It must have been something of a scary proposition to both the authors and the publishers, at that point in time. Can you just imagine how poorly received a 'hard core' book would have been? People would have went screaming from the hills. There's no success in that.

They really should update then. One of the things I DO like is the style it's written in. I found it very user friendly, just a little too, I dunno, they believe in coddling the submissive which would make me nuts. The last thing I want during a scene is having my dom checking up on me just when I'm getting into it. I used to hate it when my parents coddled me and I feel the same way...would feel the same way...if potential dom tried that with me.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 6:46:02 PM

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I've not read it yet, I am focused on other reading adventures atm. However, I did purchase it and intend to read it. I'm usually objective enough to make up my own mind on what I believe, and based on this thread I'll have to do just that. Opinions and dynamics vary from person to person, I'm sure there will be a few points in there I never thought of, and others I will probably laugh at. Just have to see.. I was warned away from NewCastle though, repeatedly. So hopefully I won't be completely underwhelmed.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 6:56:39 PM

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When I 1st started in the l/s, I read it (along with the other ones) and it was the best of the ones I read. II believe it is a very nice book to read for people a little new to the l/s. I believe that if I reread it now, I wouldn'thave the same review ;)

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 7:23:49 PM

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IMHO there are much better books for those that are new to BDSM to read..Myself when I first started it was in a vanilla relationship and my girlfriend had the Marketplace series.. I read that and it really got inside her head of what she wanted. It is the knowledge that we learn and our imagination that helps define our roles. I didn't have formal training as a Dom and she never had a Dom but I can naturally control and she was naturally submissive . I know how much to give and know how much she could take. I think that just like everyone else if you have time to learn about a person and just do what feels natural that all the books in the world only serve as something to keep the mind sharp. Real experience is what keeps your skills sharp.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 7:32:23 PM

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I think it's fine, it's a tool, like any other, use what you need and disregard the rest.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 8:37:37 PM

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quote:

dunno, they believe in coddling the submissive which would make me nuts. The last thing I want during a scene is having my dom checking up on me just when I'm getting into it. I used to hate it when my parents coddled me and I feel the same way...would feel the same way...if potential dom tried that with me.

zephyrofthenorth, you seem to be forgetting that the book is not written for YOU. YOU have been in the scene long enough to have developed your own personality when it comes to BDSM, MS, DS, etc etc.

I read the books while in a relationship with a Gorean man. I knew that I would never find anything in those books to 'help' me, yet, I still found them to be helpful, careful, and a valuable resource. Just because they did not appeal to me, does not mean that the book does not help others.

You are deliberatly ignoring the fact that YOU disliked this book. Fine. You dislike it. That does not make it redundant.

edited to fix spelling errors

< Message edited by IrishMist -- 9/4/2011 8:38:39 PM >

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 10:34:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

True but I take that as being from the point of view of male dom/female sub as opposed to female dom/male sub or female dom/female sub male dom/male sub. As I said, what I found annoying was this business of treating the sub like some fragile object that might break if not coddled.

ETA: their perspective is one thing, advising others not to do it is quite another. Also, dismissing what others might greatly enjoy also annoyed me, imo they should have encouraged exploring other things more.

Well, some subs want to be "coddled". And some just need extra reassurance that they are loved and cared for. That said, I've not the book, I heard enough about it to know I didn't want to read it because I don't like the "one way" mind sets. There is more than one way to do most everything and still do it correctly.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 10:43:05 PM

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It sounds more to me like people here are answering this question with their ego as the thread degenerates into the usual BDSM pissing contest.

Honestly, a good 90% of you people need to work on your maturity, not your fucking flogging technique.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 11:32:50 PM

MissImmortalPain

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I will admit it has been years since I read the book, but I don't recalling seeing anything harmful in it. I think perhaps people would be better off to take everything with a grain of salt. In the same manner that you would not tell someone to learn about religion as a whole by telling them to only read the Bible, the Koran, the Talmuc, etc. You wouldn't expect others to learn about bdsm by reading one book,or many books, or any books for that matter. Knowledge is always good but each of us can only take what applies to our life and learn from it.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 11:34:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
They really should update then. One of the things I DO like is the style it's written in. I found it very user friendly, just a little too, I dunno, they believe in coddling the submissive which would make me nuts. The last thing I want during a scene is having my dom checking up on me just when I'm getting into it. I used to hate it when my parents coddled me and I feel the same way...would feel the same way...if potential dom tried that with me.

I don't think an update is in order. While I agree with you that from My frame of mind today, it's not necessarily the book that I would most likely recommend, it does have it's place with some folks. I firmly believe that the book is geared towards those who are brand new and in that, it does it's job. The writing style is part of it's appeal and one of the reasons that I feel it's effective as a beginner's book.

Personally, I'm far more partial to "The Loving Dominant" and "SM 101". Those were the two that I started out with all those years ago.

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The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/4/2011 11:49:30 PM

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i read it when i first realised that i may be nrmal not a freak or wierd and at the time it was brilliant a real eyeopner and i am glad i found it. now i know a lot more its not relevent to me now but for new people then i would recomend it

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 3:59:28 AM

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[/quote]

They really should update then.

[/quote] That might be a bit difficult, unless it was written by someone else. From what I understand Phil passed away a number of years ago and Molly left the lifestyle.

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