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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 8:03:44 AM

sunshinemiss

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*redundant.... saw my point was addressed.

Be calm and carry on.

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 9/6/2011 8:10:17 AM >

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 9:01:25 AM

SimplyMichael

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I know Jay pretty well but then so do many people who live in the SF bay area as he is quite the social butterfly but he would agree with me when I say writing books is a great way of gaining friends AND enemies.

If you write a book about edge play, the safety nazis will hate you. Write a low key introduction book like "screw the roses" and the edge players will hate you. When I write my book "kinky people are mostly nuts" all the dysfunctional idiots will hate me too.

Screw the Roses is a FABULOUS book and is one of the best introductory books there is in my opinion. The reason is it has the humility that Jay's writing has but it doesn't have the preachyness and it is actually an enjoyable read while SM101 is a bit of a slog as it is rather slow and tedious. It covers a lot of ground, does a fairly good job of it, and for people to whom kink might be intimidating, it does a good job of dispelling those fears. Unlike Jay's book SM101 which makes kink sound overly complicated, riddled with scary risks, and worst of all, boring.

The only other intro book I highly recomend is Midori's "The Wild Side of Sex". She is probably one of the most grounded and intelligent writers out there and her classes are top notch.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 1:39:35 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

I've been reading Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns and find myself getting progressively annoyed. While I do think there is some good advice in there, particularly in being cautious when looking for a partner, I find the overall touchy feely coddle the s-type attitude just rubs me the wrong way.

I loved STR as a noob. I was the reader in the family, and liked that there were lots of pictures to get my then-husband interested too. I had a lot of fun giving him an executive summary and saying "Would you like to try this?" and "I bet you could build that."

The flogging diagram should be mandatory for anyone who wants to pick up a whip.

Where you see "coddle" I see "cherish."

I like some authors and not others. I recognize that if I force myself to finish "Tarnsman" I'd be being masochistic and endeavor to keep that about me and my personal preferences rather than Norman and Goreans.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 2:10:40 PM

zephyroftheNorth

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You know I keep meaning to pick up the Beauty series but every time I order books I forget.

quote:

I would say that with this book I would also add Anne Rice's series on Sleeping Beauty. Also a good primer for a fictional book.

Thanks for the recommendation Michael. I'm not a complete noob any more but hey who knows I might learn a thing or two.

quote:

The only other intro book I highly recomend is Midori's "The Wild Side of Sex". She is probably one of the most grounded and intelligent writers out there and her classes are top notch.

I do disagree with this though:

quote:

Unlike Jay's book SM101 which makes kink sound overly complicated, riddled with scary risks, and worst of all, boring.

I really enjoy his writing having read quite a few of his articles and greatly enjoyed them. Ah well to each their own I guess.

< Message edited by zephyroftheNorth -- 9/6/2011 2:21:55 PM >

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 3:16:49 PM

Aileen1968

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*fast reply and late to the thread*
I can't imagine learning anything bdsm related from a book. We've done a lot of seriously strange things to each other and haven't once needed to refer to any book. He relies on my feed back when it comes to things like circulation, etc. If I go numb, he changes the knot.
I wanna cry when he hits me. It's supposed to hurt and be uncomfortable.

In terms of relationship type of issues....if grown adults don't have the ability to choose partners that are healthy for them, then a book certainly isn't going to miraculously change that.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 5:12:06 PM

fragilepieces

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: fragilepieces

"They really should update then."

That might be a bit difficult, unless it was written by someone else. From what I understand Phil passed away a number of years ago and Molly left the lifestyle.

http://www.mysticrose.com/mdevon.htm

If you re-read what I wrote, "From what I understand Phil passed away a number of years ago and Molly left the lifestyle. " This information was passed on to me from the person I met Phil and Molly through. Because this person ran in the same circle as Phil and Molly--I believed her. Also when Phil passed away it could be that Molly may have left the lifestyle for some time. People DO do that from time to time---leave and return. I mean if my partner passed away and I had been with him for quite sometime---I'd back away.

< Message edited by fragilepieces -- 9/6/2011 5:14:41 PM >

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 7:35:03 PM

littlewonder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

*fast reply and late to the thread*
I can't imagine learning anything bdsm related from a book. We've done a lot of seriously strange things to each other and haven't once needed to refer to any book. He relies on my feed back when it comes to things like circulation, etc. If I go numb, he changes the knot.
I wanna cry when he hits me. It's supposed to hurt and be uncomfortable.

In terms of relationship type of issues....if grown adults don't have the ability to choose partners that are healthy for them, then a book certainly isn't going to miraculously change that.

exactly this and why I felt the book is not worth even giving to newbies or any other bdsm book for that matter.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 8:52:10 PM

SimplyMichael

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If they can't learn from writting, what the fuck are all of you do writing here?

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 9:21:39 PM

M4S73R

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

If they can't learn from writing, what the fuck are all of you do writing here?

This. Ive been into this lifestyle since i was 18 and my mother gave me my first BDSM book. These books, web sites, forums, communities are all for learning and hopefully keeping people safe. Some aspects of this lifestyle can be very dangerous with someone who only has urges and no education. People die from shit like that.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 9:29:33 PM

anniezz338

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

If they can't learn from writting, what the fuck are all of you do writing here?

As a voracious reader, this was worth quoting. It was also funny as hell LOL

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 10:16:02 PM

SailingBum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

If they can't learn from writting, what the fuck are all of you do writing here?

lemme see to express an opinion. That would be my guess. Furthermore anyone who takes advice from a total stranger <other than simple shit like getting directions> is a complete moron.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 10:44:20 PM

NocturnalStalker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: M4S73R

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

If they can't learn from writing, what the fuck are all of you do writing here?

This. Ive been into this lifestyle since i was 18 and my mother gave me my first BDSM book. These books, web sites, forums, communities are all for learning and hopefully keeping people safe. Some aspects of this lifestyle can be very dangerous with someone who only has urges and no education. People die from shit like that.

Please, all this is is just a gigantic "Kiss & Tell" forum. At the nexus of it all is us asserting our personal experiences as the standard for the person asking to go by. Those BDSM books are good if you're into replicating another person and getting a shitty/premature psychology lesson. Anybody that ever ends up killing somebody by accident is an idiot. Here is how to know to stop breathplay:

"Is the person turning blue/passing out? -> Yes -> Stop activity."

Here's my book for knifeplay:

"Is the person hemorrhaging? -> Yes - > Stop activity."

Here's my chapter in bondage:

"Can you tie shoe-laces? -> Yes -> You are good to go."

Give me $19.99.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 11:03:38 PM

anniezz338

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"Is this the extent of person's knowledge? -> Yes - > Stop activity."

It's not about taking someone else's advice, it's about expanding your horizons. Someone may say something that absolutely sums up what you have been feeling and can not quite put your finger on what is going on. It not about stupidity, it's called learning.

And, like anything in life, take what you need and leave the rest

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 11:44:16 PM

NocturnalStalker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338

"Is this the extent of person's knowledge? -> Yes - > Stop activity."

It's not about taking someone else's advice, it's about expanding your horizons. Someone may say something that absolutely sums up what you have been feeling and can not quite put your finger on what is going on. It not about stupidity, it's called learning.

And, like anything in life, take what you need and leave the rest

What in the holy Hell do you learn from here anyways? Hey, I have some news you may find interesting:

I'm 22 (no, not the delusional "22" when I'm actually 50 but the real 22) and despite any gimmicky posts I may make, I don't actually know everything. Do I have my curiosities? Yes. Do I ever ask them? No. Why? Look how it is usually handled. If I learn anything, it is to not actually ask anything at all. At least anything that may have a hint of legitimacy. If I dare ask I may be attacked for my inquisition and attempting to use a 40-year-old's sex life for my self-pleasuring moments.

Then what if I get the referral to go buy a book? That's nice, it really is, but if I wanted to buy the book I would have searched for a book or made a topic asking for a book. But I won't. Why? Because that is the author's point-of-view and I would rather hear from a pool of different POVs. Otherwise you have my last post where it is so brief and streamlined that you know there are many variables to be considered.

Now you're all going to dismiss this as, "Oh there's that NS stirring the pot" and you'd be right. However, I'm stirring the pot to actually get some sort of change going here where the "General BDSM Discussion" sub-forum is a place to share/congregate experiences as opposed to, "is putting things up my anal cavity qualify me as a gay person?" Really?

And save these long-winded/philosophical answers to anything that actually relates or asks for them. I know there are people like me out there that really don't care to play a round of, "Confucius Say." I notice there are a lot of people that pride themselves on their written ability. Prove it by saying something in three sentences what would have usually taken you four paragraphs.

I'd expand my horizon if there weren't so many clouds.

I would take what I could gain, but the collection plate is always empty.

That's how I see it. That's why I pretty much don't care what I post anyways. It all turns into "Social Lounge #678" in the end.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/7/2011 12:01:40 AM

gungadin09

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker

What in the holy Hell do you learn from here anyways? Hey, I have some news you may find interesting:

I'm 22 (no, not the delusional "22" when I'm actually 50 but the real 22) and despite any gimmicky posts I may make, I don't actually know everything. Do I have my curiosities? Yes. Do I ever ask them? No. Why? Look how it is usually handled. If I learn anything, it is to not actually ask anything at all...

Then what if I get the referral to go buy a book? That's nice, it really is, but if I wanted to buy the book I would have searched for a book or made a topic asking for a book. But I won't. Why?... I would rather hear from a pool of different POVs.

That's how I see it. That's why I pretty much don't care what I post anyways. It all turns into "Social Lounge #678" in the end.

i dare you to ask a question with a hint of legitimacy and prove that that's what happens.

ETA: For my part, i've never found the collection plate here is empty, although i don't always get back as much as i would like.

pam

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/7/2011 12:04:15 AM

anniezz338

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker

quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338

"Is this the extent of person's knowledge? -> Yes - > Stop activity."

It's not about taking someone else's advice, it's about expanding your horizons. Someone may say something that absolutely sums up what you have been feeling and can not quite put your finger on what is going on. It not about stupidity, it's called learning.

And, like anything in life, take what you need and leave the rest

What in the holy Hell do you learn from here anyways?

lol if I answered that, I'd be vilified for 20 pages

Now you're all going to dismiss this as, "Oh there's that NS stirring the pot"

I've seen worse. This isn't even a ripple in the pot

I'd expand my horizon if there weren't so many clouds.

I would take what I could gain, but the collection plate is always empty.

And I'm glad I read through all of your posting to get to these very insightful words. Careful, your humanity is showing :)

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/7/2011 12:06:40 AM

M4S73R

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Ok NS, i just read your profile, and have read some of your posts. Ill keep it simple for you.

1. Your a tool, srsly dude, pull the wiffle ball bat from ass and move forward, you cant be that cool, your on a bdsm website with a superiority complex that makes me wonder if your gay or not.
2. Talking about other Domme's "the amount of young female dominants that have pictures of themselves in such compromising positions. How weak and pathetic" Coming from the guy with 2 pics and one of them is a half face.
3. Your 21 on the internet. WTF. Get off the computer, go out, find a girl, do something for fuck sake. sitting here and being a cum dumpster on collarme.com. dude your making us guys look bad, close your account and sign up on www.planetcarebears.com.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/7/2011 12:23:05 AM

NocturnalStalker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: M4S73R

I love and respect you, NocturnalStalker. Do you have a newsletter?

Thank you for the compliments. No I do not at present time. I use Twitter though!

Yes I am quite fabulous, aren't I? *Hairflip*

quote:

And I'm glad I read through all of your posting to get to these very insightful words. Careful, your humanity is showing :)

Chilling, isn't it?

quote:

i dare you to ask a question with a hint of legitimacy and prove that that's what happens.

We'll see. Maybe when more answers are made to these, "drive-by accounts" that will increase more stimulating discussion on my part.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/7/2011 12:25:17 AM

M4S73R

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LOL, thats all I needed, thanks for letting me know your depth. Change your name to Nocturnalmudpuddle

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/7/2011 12:27:42 AM

NocturnalStalker

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That wouldn't fit.

Like you and a doorway.

(Oh I'm not allowed my fun?)

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