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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 4:19:43 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

zephyrofthenorth, you seem to be forgetting that the book is not written for YOU. YOU have been in the scene long enough to have developed your own personality when it comes to BDSM, MS, DS, etc etc.

I read the books while in a relationship with a Gorean man. I knew that I would never find anything in those books to 'help' me, yet, I still found them to be helpful, careful, and a valuable resource. Just because they did not appeal to me, does not mean that the book does not help others.

You are deliberatly ignoring the fact that YOU disliked this book. Fine. You dislike it. That does not make it redundant.

Ummm I've been giving MY opinion, which is that I don't think it's a very good book, no different than if we were discussing fiction. You really made quite a leap here haven't you? I do think there is a very narrow focus of what they find acceptable and I stand by that. It's my OPINION.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 4:23:03 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

That might be a bit difficult, unless it was written by someone else. From what I understand Phil passed away a number of years ago and Molly left the lifestyle.

I didn't know that. What a shame.

< Message edited by zephyroftheNorth -- 9/5/2011 4:27:15 AM >

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 4:26:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

It's my OPINION.

The fact that it's your opinion doesn't stop it from being stupid, ill-considered, misinformed or more a product of your own ego than anything worth discussing.

Here's an idea. If you want to be a critic, then write a damn book. A better one. Stop being a pissant who's criticising from the peanut gallery and actually try DOING something for a fucking change.

The more I see you fuckers who dismiss shit as being beneath you, the less respect I have for you. It's the same old games, men and women playing at being something they're not in order to pump up their social standing. Pathetic and transparent as fuck.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 5:20:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fragilepieces
That might be a bit difficult, unless it was written by someone else. From what I understand Phil passed away a number of years ago and Molly left the lifestyle.

Is that so? I can't say I wouldn't be saddened to hear it. Not quite the impact it will have when John or Jay shuffle off this mortal coil. I almost hate to think of the mourning that will happen in this world when they go.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 5:22:17 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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FR

I just ordered SM101, not for the info but simply because I've read Jay's writing before and loved it.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 5:33:05 AM

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Jay is quite a character. I'll give him credit where it's due. He writes well and communicates with others at their own level.

My only hang up with Jay is his penchant for being a part of the safety police. He is adamant against breath play, even in it's mildest form. Considering his experiences, I can't really say that I blame him.

His classes are quite good and he certainly has research behind him.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 5:48:36 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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Yeah I read his piece on breath play a while back. I probably would have dismissed or at least taken what he had written with a teaspoon of salt if he hadn't obviously researched well and backed up his views so well. Anyway it should be a good read. I do wish he would come here to speak, I would love to go.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 6:02:40 AM

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We met him in 2008 or 2009. With clip also being in the medical field (Jay was a paramedic years ago) he was terribly excited to meet him. I had to laugh just a bit as they rambled on. Jay was the first "big name" that clip ever met. In fact, I tried to impress upon clip who Jay Wiseman really was. I remember telling him, "little one, that's the man who wrote the book".

And what did they talk about? Ambulance chasing. Weird ass stuff that only folks in the medical field would get.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 9:38:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

We met him in 2008 or 2009. With clip also being in the medical field (Jay was a paramedic years ago) he was terribly excited to meet him. I had to laugh just a bit as they rambled on. Jay was the first "big name" that clip ever met. In fact, I tried to impress upon clip who Jay Wiseman really was. I remember telling him, "little one, that's the man who wrote the book".

And what did they talk about? Ambulance chasing. Weird ass stuff that only folks in the medical field would get.

You know, that got a real giggle out of me. When Im with the rest of my EMT buddies, and we meet people from ren faires or other things that are EMTS or medical transporters...we always manage to get onto the topic of what crazy stuff happened on our shifts! LOL

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 10:20:57 AM

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quote:

Ummm I've been giving MY opinion, which is that I don't think it's a very good book, no different than if we were discussing fiction. You really made quite a leap here haven't you? I do think there is a very narrow focus of what they find acceptable and I stand by that. It's my OPINION.

If you insist.

However, it does not change the fact that just because you did not like the book and found nothing in it to appeal to you does not mean that the book is useless or a waste of time.

You are entitled to your opinion. If you want to 'tout' the wrongness of the book, that is well within your rights to do so. Good luck with your campaign.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 11:40:58 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

Ummm I've been giving MY opinion, which is that I don't think it's a very good book, no different than if we were discussing fiction. You really made quite a leap here haven't you? I do think there is a very narrow focus of what they find acceptable and I stand by that. It's my OPINION.

If you insist.

However, it does not change the fact that just because you did not like the book and found nothing in it to appeal to you does not mean that the book is useless or a waste of time.

You are entitled to your opinion. If you want to 'tout' the wrongness of the book, that is well within your rights to do so. Good luck with your campaign.

Again, slowly this time, there is no campaign. I read the book, I didn't like it for the most part, I posted on it. Some wrote that they agree with me, some wrote that they think it's okay, still others loved it. All are opinions, all are valid. Further, I never said there is nothing that appeals to me, just that AS A WHOLE I don't think it's very good. One thing I most assuredly did not say is that it is useless or a waste of time. In fact I wrote that the section on meeting a new partner is really useful.

Look, you seem to be taking my posts way to personally when all I'm doing is writing about...an opinion. People have them, it's really not that big a deal.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 11:53:39 AM

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In defense of 'Screw the Roses', at the time it came out it was helpful in moving bdsm from the dark corners into more mainstream sexuality. Yes it's pretty lightweight and skewered with their personal beliefs and experiences but except for the internet it and some other introductory books should be given credit for helping get us all where we are today... good or bad.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 11:55:07 AM

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s-type?

sm

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 12:00:00 PM

zephyroftheNorth

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lol it's easier than continuously typing sub/slave. Basically it's anyone on the submissive side of the kneel. Not my term, lots of people use it.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 10:03:04 PM

MistressDarkArt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous

In defense of 'Screw the Roses', at the time it came out it was helpful in moving bdsm from the dark corners into more mainstream sexuality. Yes it's pretty lightweight and skewered with their personal beliefs and experiences but except for the internet it and some other introductory books should be given credit for helping get us all where we are today... good or bad.

This. And this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoulPiercer
I've read it and I recall, from the very beginning, the authors state that the book is written from their own point of view as a Male dominant, female submissive couple. They repeatedly state that their was isn't the only way. I found this book far more entertaining than Different Loving, which comes across as home counselling for white collar professionals who have discovered they like to have their asses whipped.

I like to recommend STR to absolute beginners. I think it's a quick, easy read that presents a good general introduction to WIITWD. It isn't bogged down with pop psychology and though the humor is rather cliched at times it helps deliver the concept to folks with no lifestyle background. It has its place and people can branch out from there if they're interested in further exploration.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/5/2011 11:00:45 PM

NocturnalStalker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous

In defense of 'Screw the Roses', at the time it came out it was helpful in moving bdsm from the dark corners into more mainstream sexuality. Yes it's pretty lightweight and skewered with their personal beliefs and experiences but except for the internet it and some other introductory books should be given credit for helping get us all where we are today... good or bad.

It probably should be lightweight considering sadomasochistic pornography usually meant you were a likely candidate to be a serial killer.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 4:26:41 AM

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My mother gave me this book when i was 18. I'd call it a primer at best. As to the coddling aspect of the book. It can (and i say can loosely) help with one sided Ds STARTER relations. Targeting the couple that have been married for 20 year, kids have moved on, they have the house to themselves, bought a laptop and husband saw some dude beating a girl in a porn and decided to "try that out on the wife". I would say that with this book I would also add Anne Rice's series on Sleeping Beauty. Also a good primer for a fictional book.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 4:51:51 AM

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I like the book and recommend it to newbies all the time although I agree, it's a primer. I think it's a very good one for those who are new, and most especially for new dominants who don't know basic things, like "how do I practice with my new flogger?"

Though I can see how some view the book as BDSM light, at the time it was written, it was truly groundbreaking in terms of bringing BDSM into the mainstream. At that time (pre Amazon) you could order it through Barnes & Noble. Being able to get it through the local book store taught so many new people that kinky sex was more pervasive and socially accepted than they ever though possible.

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 5:14:55 AM

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Also wanted to throw out a recomend
Protocols: A Variety of Views
Flogging by Joseph W. Bean

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RE: Screw the Roses.... - 9/6/2011 5:35:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fragilepieces

"They really should update then."

That might be a bit difficult, unless it was written by someone else. From what I understand Phil passed away a number of years ago and Molly left the lifestyle.

http://www.mysticrose.com/mdevon.htm

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 9/6/2011 5:44:37 AM >

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