RE: The Transgender Thread (Full Version)

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GreedyTop -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 7:59:29 AM)

omg, Otter!! that is PRICELESS!!! *warmest regards to you and your Lady*




Awareness -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 1:48:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
Do you have reservations about interacting with trans-folk?  If so why, and how can we help you to feel more comfortable in the future?
  I'll take this one and get in before the screaming harpies arrive.

Female to Male wouldn't bother me.  That transition can be made hormonally to the point where it can become very difficult to spot.

Male to female definitely does.  No matter what you're telling me, I've got a brain hardwired by untold thousands of years of evolution to recognise female attributes.  Male to female transsexuals are - in almost every case - completely unconvincing.   One that could pass without issue is like a unicorn.  They may exist, but they're a lot rarer than the trans community would like to believe.

For heterosexual men, women are our target market.  When a transsexual expects us to believe they're female despite what our brains are telling us, the instinctive response is revulsion.  There is no way for us to appropriately handle you in any context, because we're always going to think of you as a dude but you want us to handle you socially as a woman.

Normally there's a social dichotomy between men and women.  When a transsexual crosses that dichotomy, that creates  discomfort, in much the same way that crazy people create discomfort.  Crazy people create discomfort because others don't know how to handle them and they don't know what to expect from them.  A transsexual woman creates discomfort because our brains won't let us think of you as a woman, but you want us to treat you as one.

That's never going to fly.  You're asking a lot from us.  Bisexual men probably won't be phased, nor will androgynous men.  Dominant men, with a sexual identity firmly wired into the heterosexual masculine will probably have a lot of trouble.

If technology gets to the point where we can't detect a difference, then things will be easier.  If the perceptible differences are erased then it won't bother us unless we try and fuck you.  And even then, if all the parts are in the right place, it becomes a matter of whether we care what your chromosomal makeup is.  Many, will not.




HeatherMcLeather -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 2:11:55 PM)

If that is true, I am extra glad I am not a guy, or attracted to them. I would hate to be so mentally crippled, or to have to deal with somebody who was on an intimate basis.




Awareness -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 2:15:27 PM)

  Heather, you are never going to learn anything from anyone, if you dismiss and insult every opinion which does not meet with your personal approval.  I've posted honestly and openly with the aim of giving the thread author an insight into what is a fairly common male mindset.

One of these days you're going to learn that men and women are different and that dealing with those differences is your own problem.  Right now, you come across as the worst sort of misandrist.  I hate to say it, but grow up little girl.  The world is much bigger than your narrow view would let you believe.




LafayetteLady -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 2:17:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

If that is true, I am extra glad I am not a guy, or attracted to them. I would hate to be so mentally crippled, or to have to deal with somebody who was on an intimate basis.


Luckily, while Awareness may not be alone in his thinking, I don't think the majority of men in this day and age (and sorry, but especially in your generation) are anywhere near as ignorant and uninformed as he is.

Actually, what he really is, is a good example of how crazy people are not nearly as unpredictable as he would have you believe. As he shows, we can pretty well anticipate what they will say or do on a good number of occasions.

I think that is because, "thousands of years of evolution" has aided us in weeding out people like that.




Ninebelowzero -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 2:17:14 PM)

Thankfully I never imbibed psychotropic narcotics




LafayetteLady -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 2:18:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

The world is much bigger than your narrow view would let you believe.



Take your own advice. It will do you good.




Awareness -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 2:20:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Luckily, while Awareness may not be alone in his thinking, I don't think the majority of men in this day and age (and sorry, but especially in your generation) are anywhere near as ignorant and uninformed as he is.

Actually, what he really is, is a good example of how crazy people are not nearly as unpredictable as he would have you believe. As he shows, we can pretty well anticipate what they will say or do on a good number of occasions.

I think that is because, "thousands of years of evolution" has aided us in weeding out people like that.
  And you're another one.  Insecure.  Weak.  Unthinking.

How about you let the thread continue on its intended topic instead of hijacking it to insult someone whose opinion you disagree with.

Oh wait.  You can't.  Slave to your weakness.   Yes, I've posted about that.  Go check the Polls thread about biases on CollarMe.  You're a hoot, you've just demonstrated exactly what I spoke about.  KACHING!




Awareness -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 2:22:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
The world is much bigger than your narrow view would let you believe.
Take your own advice. It will do you good.
  You have no idea what my world-view is.  You're not smart enough to perceive it.




Ninebelowzero -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 2:43:48 PM)

I smell a whiff of Fascist...
quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
The world is much bigger than your narrow view would let you believe.
Take your own advice. It will do you good.
  You have no idea what my world-view is.  You're not smart enough to perceive it.






poise -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 2:46:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
Do you have reservations about interacting with trans-folk?  If so why, and how can we help you to feel more comfortable in the future?
  I'll take this one and get in before the screaming harpies arrive.

I don't see much difference in what you wrote vs what OttersSwim wrote in his 3rd post to this thread,
albeit a few extra paragraphs. And I'm certain he appreciates your response. Harpies be damned.




LillyBoPeep -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 2:53:31 PM)

(this is a fast reply)

there isn't anything invalid about Awareness's opinion, no matter how much it might conflict with your own, or how much you think it's wrong. the thing is, his opinion is something that a lot of people feel but are afraid to say because they're afraid of being attacked for it. whether or not it's wrong, the fact is that it's an opinion which really is felt.
there's nothing in his post about "all MtF transsexuals must die," just that he and many other men are uncomfortable around them for XYZ reasons.

sometimes having an idea of what you're up against is a good thing because then you learn what you have to fight against. either that, or you learn what you don't want to care about.

it's like with being a brown person -- some people have negative opinions about us, either from social conditioning, from bad experiences, from "fear of the unknown," whatever.
they are still responsible for their opinions, and if they discriminate against people because they believe their opinions are more important than someone else's life, then they should be held accountable.
but when i learn that someone has motivation like that, i can either say "well, i can maybe help them learn otherwise" or i know "this is what i'm up against" and it's then my choice whether or not to worry about fighting with them or not.
attacking someone who is an outright racist may not get me anywhere at all, and only make me feel bad. that's a person who doesn't care about me and has no reservations about hurting my feelings (or worse) so why engage them?
but i can engage them in a way, by being myself and living my own life, and letting that speak for itself. i can prove them wrong without fighting them, or i can choose to minimize its influence to the best of my ability.

but you can't know any of that, until you know what you're dealing with. Awareness provides that. take it for what it's worth.




PeonForHer -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 3:17:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
For heterosexual men, women are our target market.  When a transsexual expects us to believe they're female despite what our brains are telling us, the instinctive response is revulsion.  There is no way for us to appropriately handle you in any context, because we're always going to think of you as a dude but you want us to handle you socially as a woman.


It's your privilege to accuse me of BSing in accord with standard PC demands, Awareness, but that simply isn't true. Speak for your own opinions, by all means, but don't use that word 'us'. Hell, I've had a full-blown, tonsil-tickling snog with a TV before and got a damned powerful stiffy out of it. This is despite knowing said TV as a bloke, outside of BDSM clubs. And that was a TV, not a transsexual.




NocturnalStalker -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 3:54:32 PM)

I would never, in any walk of life, in any existence, in any multiverse, ever sleep or pursue a relationship with a transgender/transsexual/whatever you call it. 

Your brain is telling you that you feel like a female?  My brain tells me I should be king of the world.  I'm not though, and despite the surgery done, you're a guy still.  Only now you're a guy who made himself look like a girl. 




hausboy -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 3:58:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

You know from a scientific stance, some bloodwork appears different for male and female. I would think that would be why that third box is so important. Plus as a transgendered person, the hormones that you take can, I'm sure alter the results if the pathologist doesn't allow for it.

Using Chaz Bono as an example since he is currently the most public figure in this. I know that Chaz (Yep, watched the show "Becoming Chaz") has not had the genetalia surgery. Whether or not a hysterectomy has been done or not, I don't know, but I know the plumbing is still there. So at some point every year, Chaz needs to have a pap smear and a pelvic exam. I can't even imagine how that makes him (or you if you are in a similar position) horribly uncomfortable. The reallity, however, is that those "female issues" that are strictly for the scientifically female need to be checked for health issues.


Ok, I know this sounds really mean, but it isn't meant that way. During transition and after, it isn't all about you (general you). Again, let's use Chaz Bono. I look at him, and would not mistake him for a female. He doesn't remind me of some guys I know, but that isn't relavant, lol. How old is Chaz now? How long ago was this transition? Cher gave birth to him and raised a daughter. Switching pronouns, I'm sure can sometimes happen. Keep in mind I'm not talking about those who refuse or do it intentionally. They are just jerks. But someone who knew Chaz for 20-30 years before his transition, can't just forget all that time he was female. While I get that the person transitioning has had it tough for a long time, they can't expect loved ones to catch up overnight.


The above struck me. Was your "butch punk dyke" era before or after you had realized you were transgendered? Because if before, in retrospect, would you say it explains the behavior quite a bit?

As we age, it isn't that we don't "live for the battles," we have just found more productive ways of fighting them.


Hi LafayetteLady
no apology necessary--no offense taken.

surgery is always a very private, personal matter, regardless of what your gender is.  For those FTMs who decide to not have lower surgeries, they should get pap smears performed.  Yes--it's a problem for many.  It can be very physically painful, emotionally painful and it's sometimes very tough to find a compassionate GYN.  Not to mention the embarrassment of having to go to a GYN's office.  Many decide not to go at all....  and if you've ever seen the documentary Southern Comfort-- "woman-cancers" do kill FTMs, and in Robert Eads' case, he did not have access to the appropriate healthcare as a transman.  His death had a true ripple effect nationwide and it changed how many of us handled our health insurance matters.

In answer to your second question, I identified as a boy when I was three--which is also when my parents were made aware of the "problem" by the nursery school.  I was out as a lesbian for several years before I fully came to understand my identity.





hausboy -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 3:59:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker

I would never, in any walk of life, in any existence, in any multiverse, ever sleep or pursue a relationship with a transgender/transsexual/whatever you call it. 

Your brain is telling you that you feel like a female?  My brain tells me I should be king of the world.  I'm not though, and despite the surgery done, you're a guy still.  Only now you're a guy who made himself look like a girl. 



How disappointing to read this.  I used to be really amused by your posts.  Now I see someone else completely. 

You're a guy who just made himself look like a fool. 




Ninebelowzero -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 4:04:46 PM)

That's extremely polite.




NocturnalStalker -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 4:05:29 PM)

I'm a guy that is happy being a guy, to correct you.




Ninebelowzero -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 4:13:24 PM)

& your mother has a penis.




TheFireWithinMe -> RE: The Transgender Thread (11/13/2011 4:15:47 PM)

Please don`t let this degenerate into another NS-inspired derail. Just this once ignore him...please.




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