RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 2:41:31 PM)

dammit
laws by state regarding breast feeding and lactating moms, with stats on where it is allowable to feed public and private
http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=14389




LafayetteLady -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 2:43:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VirginPotty

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBBTBW

I have no problem with anyone breastfeeding their children in public. It is a normal, natural thing.


So is taking a dump but I wouldn't want to see that being done in public.  If you're breastfeeding use a pump, fill a bottle & take it w/you.  The baby's still getting its nutrients just thru a different nipple.


Very well put.




HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 2:46:52 PM)

quote:

And Heather? Please show me where my posts were "ridiculous, insulting, impassioned" I felt that my views were as reasonable and well-articulated as anyone else's
Certainly. [:)]

However, please keep in mind that you asked me to point them out to you, so don't be complaining about it now that I have.

quote:

Having breast fed three children, I can tell you that a mother knows about when her child will be hungry, and it is possible to take steps to avoid breast feeding in improper places.
The idea that there are places where it is improper to do so is ridiculous.
quote:

Re-schedule.
As others have pointed out, courts don't just put cases off because your kid isn't feeling his best, the idea that they would readily reschedule the proceedings over an earache is ridiculous.






agirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 2:49:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBBTBW

I breastfed my daughter in the park, on the bus and in many public places. This was 26 years ago. I discretely covered her and myself up with a blanket and she ate to her hearts content. I have no problem with anyone breastfeeding their children in public. It is a normal, natural thing. Sure show a little decorum about yourself and put a lite blanket over you and your child but those of you that are offended...get over yourselves.


So did you breast feed your child in church?

Your choice (and like it or not, breastfeeding IS a choice) to breastfeed your child DOES NOT supercede someone else's right in public places.

By the way, some people breast feed their children way into and past toddlerhood. If she was breast feeding a five year old, would you have the same opinion?

Explain to me why people who don't want to see it need to get over themselves? Being nude is also quite natural, yet, no one seems to dispute that one shouldn't be nude anywhere they want.

The idea that being a mother who breast feeds her child somehow supercedes someone else's right to not be subjected to it is ridiculous. Being a mother is not some great achievment, nearly any female can do it.

Yes, I have a child (grown now). I was a single mother to boot, whose family had all perished or did not live nearby during my son's childhood, so I know all about childcare issues.

Just because you have a child doesn't give you (or me) the right to force other people to accept whatever you want to do. Typically the same people who are so "I will breastfeed where ever and when ever I choose," are the same people who will take a condescending attitude towards those who don't breastfeed, with complete disregard as to the possibilities that breastfeeding may have not been an option for them.




That's an assumption that is unfairly held.

Finding breastfeeding normal, rather boring and of no great drama doesn't mean that there's any condescention toward women that either can't or don't wish to.

Why would it matter? Both women have chosen the best route for themselves.

My only curiousity really only is in why it seems such a drama for those that find it inappropriate in *places*.  As I said, in my culture it's nothing of any note or interest......other than rather encouraging nods, if noticed.

I'm trying to imagine something, ANYTHING about breastfeeding that is inappropriate, and I can't.

It's the most quiet act there is going.  I find your comment * being subjected to it* one of the most silliest in a long time.

( I do actually dispute that people shouldn't be nude wherever they want but that's another issue altogether)

And 'though you didn't ask me, yes, I breast fed in church and pretty much anywhere and everywhere.....as and when the need arose.

As I have already mentioned........ in the UK, you'd look and be treated as an utter arse if you made an unnecessary fuss over quiet, discreet and natural behaviour.

agirl












Iamsemisweet -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 2:52:27 PM)

You know what?  You are right.  She could have done all kinds of things, in order not to offend the court.  You and others have made all kinds of helpful suggestions, the majority of which would have been more disruptive than just letting her quietly and discreetly feed her baby in court.  But, we wouldn't want to impair the "dignity" of the court system.  The bailiff made a tempest out of a teapot.  The judge, bless his heart, is backing the bailiff up.  The whole conflict was unnecessary, and probably more disruptive than if the bailiff had just kept his mouth shut.  I was happy to see from Luci's website that such a ridiculous conflict would not be permitted in my jurisdiction.

What exactly do you feel you are being subjected to when a mother feeds her baby, discreetly and quietly?  Would it really be less disruptive for her to sit out in the hallway and feed?  And yes, some of the people who wander the halls of the courthouse are murderers and rapists.  As well as druggies, and other lowlifes of every nature. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

When you get a subpoena to go to court, you go.  I doubt a court is going to reschedule a trial in which the mother is a witness because her baby is sick.  Nor does the witness have any control over when her testimony is scheduled, or how long the proceeding goes.  You go, and deal with it as best you can, or you risk not going and getting found in contempt.  Rock and a hard place, indeed.
quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

But there are ways to mitigate that as I discussed above. And honestly, if your baby has an earache, don't take him/her out anywhere, he's already miserable enough as it is. Re-schedule.



But especially as a witness with child care issues, it isn't far fetched to speak to the party you are testifying for and find out if you can sit outside with your child so you can comfort them, considering they are sick.

For that matter, she would have had to have spoken with that party and their attorney prior to the calendar call. So here, the attorney had a major fail by not taking care of this issue.

While I get you are pro breast feed and want courts to do more for parents with child care issues, you KNOW that your points here are full of holes. I really believe you are a much better attorney than that.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 2:54:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

In this debate the two sides can be easily distinguished. Those supporting a mother's right to breastfeed undisturbed have made sensible, reasoned posts. Those who oppose, on the other hand have made ridiculous, insulting, impassioned and to be honest, occasionally asinine (Hi VP) posts.

I wonder why that might be.

I agree 100% with IASS here, the court serves the people, not the other way around. It is a court of law for God's sake, a place where the public's business is carried out, not some sacred temple.

Also, for those demanding decorum and respect, please keep in mind that many churches have depictions of the Madonna nursing the baby Jesus. I figure if its OK in a church, its OK pretty much anywhere.




Go figure, people who disagree with you are "ridiculous, insulting or asinine." At what point will you realize that will never win you an argument or garner you respect as someone who can adequately and intelligently get her point across?




xxblushesxx -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 2:57:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

And Heather? Please show me where my posts were "ridiculous, insulting, impassioned" I felt that my views were as reasonable and well-articulated as anyone else's
Certainly. [:)]

However, please keep in mind that you asked me to point them out to you, so don't be complaining about it now that I have.

quote:

Having breast fed three children, I can tell you that a mother knows about when her child will be hungry, and it is possible to take steps to avoid breast feeding in improper places.
The idea that there are places where it is improper to do so is ridiculous.
quote:

Re-schedule.
As others have pointed out, courts don't just put cases off because your kid isn't feeling his best, the idea that they would readily reschedule the proceedings over an earache is ridiculous.





There are improper places to breast feed. Although in a court of law is one of the only ones I can think of. (maybe THE only one.)

Yes, actually, courts DO make provisions for people who can't make it on a certain day. There are ways of getting around breast feeding in court, believe it or not.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 2:59:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

It. Does. Not. Offend. I've breastfed three children. Three. I think that at least gives me some credibility in what can be done to mitigate the need to breast feed in the middle of a court case.
And Heather? Please show me where my posts were "ridiculous, insulting, impassioned"  I felt that my views were as reasonable and well-articulated as anyone else's.


When it is considered that the people who disagree with you (and me) are also those who do not see a court room as somewhere that behavior/activities should be respectful, is it really a surprise?

Excluding IASS




HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 3:00:03 PM)

quote:

The question, specifically, was is it inappropriate to breast feed, and by implication, engage in certain behaviors in a court room.
Actually, it wasn't. You asked 6 questions in your OP:

1. So regardless of whether or not breastfeeding in public is "legal," are there times it is simply inappropriate to do so?
2. Is it appropriate during church services?
3. How about in the middle of a wedding ceremony?
4. While I do understand that many women want to breastfeed their baby and want to have the right to do when when necessary, do they really have the "right" to do it anywhere, and anytime the need arises?
5. Or should these women actually take into consideration that there are some places where stepping out of the room is just the "right" thing to do?
6. If a particluar place provides an area for breastfeeding (not the ladies bathroom), should a person be required to use that room as opposed to breastfeeding anywhere they choose at the facility?

As you can see, there was no mention of a courtroom in any of them.





LafayetteLady -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 3:00:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

It. Does. Not. Offend. I've breastfed three children. Three. I think that at least gives me some credibility in what can be done to mitigate the need to breast feed in the middle of a court case.
And Heather? Please show me where my posts were "ridiculous, insulting, impassioned"  I felt that my views were as reasonable and well-articulated as anyone else's.


My post was about those that are. It was a FR deliberately.

I will probably always find it difficult to understand why breastfeeding ever causes a problem....Possibly that's a culteral thing, in the UK it's like blowing your nose. Really of no note.

agirl



Very few said they were offended by breastfeeding. The offense was over the location.

ETA:

Neither is it about "WILLFULLY" breastfeeding, although the reality is that it is a CHOICE to breast feed. Would you support a law that ORDERS women to breast feed, or how long to breastfeed?




JstAnotherSub -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 3:01:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

And Heather? Please show me where my posts were "ridiculous, insulting, impassioned" I felt that my views were as reasonable and well-articulated as anyone else's
Certainly. [:)]

However, please keep in mind that you asked me to point them out to you, so don't be complaining about it now that I have.

quote:

Having breast fed three children, I can tell you that a mother knows about when her child will be hungry, and it is possible to take steps to avoid breast feeding in improper places.
The idea that there are places where it is improper to do so is ridiculous.
quote:

Re-schedule.
As others have pointed out, courts don't just put cases off because your kid isn't feeling his best, the idea that they would readily reschedule the proceedings over an earache is ridiculous.



I wish you would point out what about anything she wrote was insulting or ridiculous.

She stated her opinion.  It is different from yours.  If that insults you, then you need to....here it comes....grow the fuck up.






Rule -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 3:01:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
At what point will you realize that will never win you an argument or garner you respect as someone who can adequately and intelligently get her point across?

I agree with her, so she won the argument. I do not agree with you, so you lost the argument.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 3:03:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
At what point will you realize that will never win you an argument or garner you respect as someone who can adequately and intelligently get her point across?

I agree with her, so she won the argument. I do not agree with you, so you lost the argument.


Because you are the decider? Not nearly. You would not be among those that would ever be permitted to decide on an argument, so I'm not terribly concerned.




HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 3:08:04 PM)

quote:

Although in a court of law is one of the only ones I can think of.
Why is a court an improper place to breastfeed? I've read various posts on this thread saying it is, but I have yet to see an actual explanation of why this might be so. Care to elaborate?




agirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 3:08:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

In this debate the two sides can be easily distinguished. Those supporting a mother's right to breastfeed undisturbed have made sensible, reasoned posts. Those who oppose, on the other hand have made ridiculous, insulting, impassioned and to be honest, occasionally asinine (Hi VP) posts.

I wonder why that might be.

I agree 100% with IASS here, the court serves the people, not the other way around. It is a court of law for God's sake, a place where the public's business is carried out, not some sacred temple.

Also, for those demanding decorum and respect, please keep in mind that many churches have depictions of the Madonna nursing the baby Jesus. I figure if its OK in a church, its OK pretty much anywhere.




Go figure, people who disagree with you are "ridiculous, insulting or asinine." At what point will you realize that will never win you an argument or garner you respect as someone who can adequately and intelligently get her point across?



You're flapping on about a court with a woman already quietly settled in a seat...then being daft and comparing it to being in a traffic queue, or driving. There is no comparison but you appear desperate to make one.

Of course my baby could yell for a few minutes while I find a place to pull over. I'm not in a position to slide my nipple gently in his mouth but when I WAS in that position I did so, wherever it was.

I may have missed something, so will ask...... is it illegal or against some state rule to breastfeed in the place she did? Did she break a law of some kind?

agirl




HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 3:09:30 PM)

quote:

When it is considered that the people who disagree with you (and me) are also those who do not see a court room as somewhere that behavior/activities should be respectful, is it really a surprise?
In what way is breastfeeding not respectful?




xxblushesxx -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 3:13:15 PM)

Because when you're in court, you're supposed to be giving your entire attention to the proceedings, as are the people around you. The preparations and what you're doing in between the feeding is distracting, whether someone else agrees or not. You don't put on makeup, text or breast feed when you're supposed to be paying attention. You also shouldn't do things that may distract those around you. Someone else's life may ride on the fact that there are no distractions.




HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 3:13:36 PM)

quote:

I wish you would point out what about anything she wrote was insulting or ridiculous.
OK, now this is getting a little ridiculous. I pointed out exactly what about her posts I found ridiculous in the post you quoted. In fact, that was all that was in the post you quoted.
quote:

She stated her opinion. It is different from yours. If that insults you, then you need to....here it comes....grow the fuck up.
I didn't say I was insulted, I said that her statements were ridiculous. Please show me where I said I was insulted by anything she posted?




Rule -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 3:13:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
I may have missed something, so will ask...... is it illegal or against some state rule to breastfeed in the place she did? Did she break a law of some kind?

A lot of them USA people are conditioned (i.e. brainwashed) to regard naked skin as a sexual, reprehensible act.




agirl -> RE: Breastfeeding In Court? (11/15/2011 3:16:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

It. Does. Not. Offend. I've breastfed three children. Three. I think that at least gives me some credibility in what can be done to mitigate the need to breast feed in the middle of a court case.
And Heather? Please show me where my posts were "ridiculous, insulting, impassioned"  I felt that my views were as reasonable and well-articulated as anyone else's.


My post was about those that are. It was a FR deliberately.

I will probably always find it difficult to understand why breastfeeding ever causes a problem....Possibly that's a culteral thing, in the UK it's like blowing your nose. Really of no note.

agirl



Very few said they were offended by breastfeeding. The offense was over the location.

ETA:

Neither is it about "WILLFULLY" breastfeeding, although the reality is that it is a CHOICE to breast feed. Would you support a law that ORDERS women to breast feed, or how long to breastfeed?


What does the location have to do with it other than * someone didn't like it?*

Of course I wouldn't support a law of that kind......... you are plumbing the depths now. You clearly haven't read my posts. Not all women wish to or are able to.

I don't see what that has to do with anything, thus far.

agirl




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