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Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/26/2006 7:57:35 PM

collegebeauty

Posts: 41
Joined: 2/27/2006
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I recently started therapy with a pscyhologist who is most definately not a Kink Aware Professional. He is concerned that my submissiveness may be a mental health problem. I've been submissive for years, ever since I found out that such a thing existed, and when I'm in that role, I feel totally comfortable and at peace. Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time finding good rescources that I can refer him to about the fact that BDSM is not a mental disorder. I've already checked out the following:

CastleRealm
APEX
National Coalition for Sexual Freedom
Society for Human Sexuality

Does anyone else have ideas of places to refer a medical professional to for more information? Please help!

Beauty

Post #: 1

RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/26/2006 8:08:16 PM

angelface183

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Please forgive me, I do not know where you are located and I cannot possibly know the health care professionals available to you, but wouldn't it be easier to find a therapist who is already educated about alternative lifestyles than to have to educate your therapist?

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RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/26/2006 8:17:50 PM

amativedame

Posts: 331
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline

interesting... there is a section in the newest copy of the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) that states that our lifestyle isn't a mental disorder. I haven't run into a full copy of it online, but who ever you are seeing should most certainly have a copy.... and your bookstore or local library would most likely have it as well.

Informed Consent has a small mention of it on their site- where they state:

"In the past, sadomasochistic activities and fantasies were regarded by most psychiatrists as pathological, but have been regarded as increasingly acceptable since at least the 1990s. Indeed, the DSM-IV asserts that "The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviours" must "cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning" in order for sexual sadism or masochism to be considered a disorder. People who practice BDSM tend to reject the view of their activities as disordered."
-----

in theory if you should be able to point this out to him and explain that it doesn't cause you any distress or impairment and prove your point. If you can't... obviously you need to find a new therapist.

< Message edited by amativedame -- 5/26/2006 8:18:25 PM >

(in reply to collegebeauty)

Post #: 3

RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/26/2006 9:17:30 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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I went to a therapist over a year ago, it did not help me because my problems were organically based, and I had to improve my health and then I felt better. Before I did that though I went to a therapist that told me that being submissive in a relationship was "bad" for me. Needless to say I quit seeing him because our worldviews just did not match. Your therapist is probably not going to change their perception based on anything you present to him. It would be easier to find a kink friendly therapist... they do exist.

_____________________________

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/26/2006 9:27:45 PM

Lordandmaster

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I'll second that. You shouldn't have to be your therapist's therapist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelface183

Please forgive me, I do not know where you are located and I cannot possibly know the health care professionals available to you, but wouldn't it be easier to find a therapist who is already educated about alternative lifestyles than to have to educate your therapist?

(in reply to angelface183)

Post #: 5

RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/27/2006 6:20:50 AM

Manawyddan

Posts: 701
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Petaluma (Northern California)
Status: offline

When I start seeing any new therapist, I discuss in the first session that I am involved in sadomasochism and ask what they think about that. If they don't give an answer that I like, there is no second session. I think you should make some calls. There is a Kink Aware Professionals site out there ....

_____________________________

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RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/27/2006 8:25:26 AM

BrownCocoaBBW

Posts: 13
Joined: 3/10/2005
Status: offline

I have to agree with the responses here. I am a psychologist and I have had conversations with my peers regarding this lifestyle. There are some that are not accepting no matter what information is provided.

Finding a therapist who is a match is certainly a job in itself. If your therapist is not aware or accepting of the lifestyle, his/her sole agenda will be to "enlighten" you to the "dangers" of the lifestyle. It may be more worth your time to find someone kink-aware.

~Ms. Cherice

(in reply to collegebeauty)

Post #: 7

RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/27/2006 10:22:19 AM

candystripper

Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I recently started therapy with a pscyhologist who is most definately not a Kink Aware Professional. He is concerned that my submissiveness may be a mental health problem. I've been submissive for years, ever since I found out that such a thing existed, and when I'm in that role, I feel totally comfortable and at peace. Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time finding good rescources that I can refer him to about the fact that BDSM is not a mental disorder. I've already checked out the following:

CastleRealm
APEX
National Coalition for Sexual Freedom
Society for Human Sexuality

Does anyone else have ideas of places to refer a medical professional to for more information? Please help!

Beauty

IMHO, your psychologist may have violated the ethical code of conduct governing licensees. You might want to be aware that psychologists are PhD's and most are primarially schooled only in testing. i know it's tough, but if it were me, i'd report his a** to the state licensing board. He will seriously harm s'ome eventually.

So, first i'd recommend using a psychiatrist, licensed social worker or nurse practitioner. Next, there must be a "click" between the client and the provider; if you don't feel it, don't go back, no matter what credentials or Kink Awareness they may claim.

All i can suggest to you is that you use the search function on the Home page and ask submissives in your area for a recommendation. However, bear in mind that advice is worth what you pay for it, and some HNGs masquarade as submissives.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 5/27/2006 10:46:24 AM >

(in reply to collegebeauty)

Post #: 8

RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/27/2006 10:50:51 AM

LadyJulieAnn

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Joined: 6/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

IMHO, your psychologist may have violated the ethical code of conduct governing licensees. You might want to be aware that psychologists are PhD's and most are primarially schooled only in testing. i know it's tough, but if it were me, i'd report his a** to the state licensing board. He will seriously harm s'ome eventually.

So, first i'd recommend using a psychiatrist, licensed social worker or nurse practitioner. Next, there must be a "click" between the client and the provider; if you don't feel it, don't go back, no matter what credentials or Kink Awareness they may claim.

All i can suggest to you is that you use the search function on the Home page and ask submissives in your area for a recommendation. However, bear in mind that advice is worth what you pay for it, and some HNGs masquarade as submissives.

candystripper

I fail to see where her posting mentions a violation of a licensing board. It is very common to have a PhD in Clinical Psychology, which may include testing, but also includes training in counseling. Candidates for these positions must complete clinical internships before receiving their degrees. Unless a nurse practitioner has training and a license in counseling, that would not be an option.

Be well,
Julie

< Message edited by LadyJulieAnn -- 5/27/2006 10:52:09 AM >

(in reply to candystripper)

Post #: 9

RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/27/2006 3:04:09 PM

fullofgrace

Posts: 395
Joined: 3/24/2006
From: fl, usa
Status: offline

i thought psychiatrists were the ones who were more trained in testing and diagnostics and psychologists were more specialized in counseling. but maybe i'm just crazy.

anyway, i would echo the idea of trying to find a more kink aware psychologist. it's true, i think - at least for me - that things in my past that i'm still dealing with probably have something to do with the strength of my desire to be submissive, but i don't think submissiveness keeps me from healing from my problems - if anything, being true to myself in that HELPS more than hurts. i would try to at least find someone who is more open-minded and willing to learn if they know nothing, if you can't get someone who is well-educated on the bdsm lifestyle.

_____________________________

i have the kind of beauty that moves...

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RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/27/2006 3:07:46 PM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fullofgrace

i thought psychiatrists were the ones who were more trained in testing and diagnostics and psychologists were more specialized in counseling. but maybe i'm just crazy.

It depends on the program they graduated from. The biggest difference is psychiatrists are MDs while psychologists are PhD. The PhD generally requires a dissertation involving original research while psychiatrists have to do additional work beyond their medical school training. What this work is varies widely. Some dynamic (Freudian) programs require years of therapy for the doctor.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

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Post #: 11

RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/27/2006 4:56:32 PM

MistressSassy66

Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
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While My LLC knows about My Lifestyle,I dont normally discuss it.

They have the duty(law bound) to report anyone they feel is endangering another person.

Patient Client privacy isnt what it used to be.

I have to add that I pretty much had to explain the whole thing.I was glad I had a chance to tell a professional the real(based on My experiences) sides of BDSM...no its not all about sex....I have to laugh at that...why oh why is it always about sex?

Professional opinion was if I'm not hurting* anyone and I'm not being hurt*...I should assert those Domineering feelings more often.

*hurting is depending on what is agreed for pain.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

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Post #: 12

RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/28/2006 8:38:25 PM

collegebeauty

Posts: 41
Joined: 2/27/2006
Status: offline

I have checked out the Kink Aware Professionals site. Unfortunately, I live in a rather conservative area and, my health insurance plan doesn't cover any of the KAPs in my area. Also, I am working with a psychiatrist, who recommended that I see a psychologist in conjuction with his work with me. My psychiatrist flat out told me "I don't get it, I don't understand why you'd let someone do that to you, you seem like such an incredibly strong and willful person, but if you're happy when it's happening, then I see nothing wrong with it." The psychologist is the one who's not seeming to thrilled with it. Unfortunately, though, since I do need my medical insurance to cover as much of this as possible, I'm in the role of educating my psychologist. So please, please, if you have sources, help!!!!

Beauty

(in reply to MistressSassy66)

Post #: 13

RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/28/2006 8:57:20 PM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

First off, most of the therapists listed on KAP are used to doing therapy by phone because they have clients all over the world. Dossie Easton is an excellent therapist and I have seen her for couples therapy.

As someone said, interview them, they work for YOU, if they give you answers to your interview that put you at ease, then hire them, otherwise keep looking. If you are nervous about mentioning S&M, ask them about poly or kinky sex or something else and see if they give calming answers or get all uptight.

That said, if you feel a need for therapy, don't give up, take the time to find a good match. While I have done a lot of growth through sheer force of will, there is much I could not have done without the help of a well matched and thoughtful therapist.

I would get Bill Henkin's book (he is a PH.D ) Consensual Sadomasochism for your therapist. Best book on the mental aspects of S&M around. Here is an amazon link to it.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1881943127/103-6348083-7547834?v=glance&n=283155

(in reply to collegebeauty)

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RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/29/2006 3:14:43 AM

MsMacComb

Posts: 808
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: My Mothers womb.
Status: offline

Find another shrink. Most these days are enlightened enough to not see consensual sexual acts or orientation as being "dangerous" or a mental health problem.

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Not looking for anyone for anything, any time.

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Post #: 15

RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/30/2006 3:34:09 PM

Esinem

Posts: 156
Joined: 5/9/2006
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http://www.revisef65.org/ might be worth contacting

(in reply to collegebeauty)

Post #: 16

RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/30/2006 4:25:25 PM

sharainks

Posts: 499
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline

I'd like to clear up an assertion I've seen made. Not all psychologists are PhD level. Most states license psychologists at the master's level as well. In some states, mine for instance, the license designation can be the same for a PhD as a master's level. At the level you can practice independently in my state a MS and PhD are both LCP's or licensed clinical psychotherapists.

That said you have any number of licensures that you can choose from. You can try a social worker, a counselor, or a marriage and family therapist. If you are in doubt about what is what write your state licensing board. They can explain your options or direct you to someone who can. You can also call your a mental health center and discuss your options locally.

What I see in her post probably is an ethical violation in that therapists are not supposed to place their values on others. Its not likely someone would lose their license over it, or even be censured for an ethical violation. The State licensing board usually does not deal with ethical issues. That comes from the organizations that write the ethical standards IE The American Psychological Association. People bring their values with them and you will waste more time than its worth trying to convince him that its ok. Get a different therapist.

(in reply to Esinem)

Post #: 17

RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/30/2006 7:27:20 PM

collegebeauty

Posts: 41
Joined: 2/27/2006
Status: offline

Ok, well, what you all didn't seem to get is that I can't get a different therapist. I have to stay in the clinic because of insurance reasons and this is the only psychologist (PhD, btw) that works in the clinic. I'm a college student, with lousy insurance. If I could simply pick someone off the Kink Aware Professionals list, I would.

However, for those of you who offered helpful advice, I passed along some information, and the psychologist said he's certainly willing to look into the lifestyle and to talk with some collegues about it and find out if it can be done and not be harmful. So thank you all who provided me with resources to pass on. I appreciate the input and answer to my actual question.

Beauty

(in reply to sharainks)

Post #: 18

RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/30/2006 8:16:09 PM

PlayfulOne

Posts: 1047
Status: offline

This may sound a little off the wall but might I suggest giving him a copy of John Warrens book "The Loving Dominant"?

Before we met, my little one was seeing a therapist for a couple of issues completely unrelated to bdsm. The first therapist she saw when they got around to discussing bdsm was completely inshock, she felt as if we wasgoing to try and detain her. The second one was not kink friendly but more along the lines of kink tolerant The nly thing he did when they discussed certain subjects was giver her the standard text book answer. the problem was his standard text book answers had nothing to do with her thoughts and feelings on those subjects.

She no longer goes because they did solve the problems with the issues she went there for. I would tell you the same thing I would tell her, If the reasons your there have nothing to do with BDSM then just stay out of those areas. I know there were many things she didn't tell him becasue she knew he didn't understand and it had nothing to do with the reasons why she was there.

K

(in reply to collegebeauty)

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RE: Convincing the Pyschologist - 5/30/2006 9:01:10 PM

HollyS

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Joined: 1/5/2006
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Hi college,

I understand how frustrating it can be to approach a therapist for help only to find their own biases getting in the way of treating you. I'm sorry that your options are so limited right now, so here are a few more ideas (with full nods to everyone who has already passed their suggestions along):

A good book for mental health practitioners unaware about kink issues is Gloria Brame's "Different Loving." She holds a PhD in human sexuality and was a pioneer in the understanding of BDSM relationships as normal rather than inherently pathological. It's written in a clinical tone and has good statistics to back up her data. Also, Brame's "Come Hither" is a mainstream easy-to-read book that covers much of the same material and would be a good introduction to the lifestyle for someone completly unaware. You can get both of them from Amazon.

You don't state what initially brought you to therapy, but if it was not directly related to your bdsm life I would try to table the topic for awhile. Relationship issues, work issues, social life issues... all work very similarly for people both in and out of the lifestyle. If the therapist is unable to stay away from your submissiveness without you feeling judged for it or otherwise refers back to it as insight into your other issues, then perhaps you might consider stopping therapy with him or her. A clinician who isn't helping you isn't doing his or her job and it's not your place to educate them "enough" so they can treat you effectively. Might I suggest, even while still seeing this person, that you investigate local community mental health resources? Many are run on a sliding-scale and would be willing to work with a student for very low cost. If all else fails and your therapist is not helping you, is there any professor, TA or other person at the school whom you trust enough to approach for a referral? Often professors network with other professors and it's possible that a trusted teacher could point you in a better direction.

Truly, sometimes bad therapy is worse than no therapy. You will need to be your own advocate and insist on the treatment you deserve -- without bias, judgement or assumption. Take care and let us know how it goes.

~Holly

_____________________________

I wish my lawn were emo, so it would cut itself.

(in reply to collegebeauty)

Post #: 20

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