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RE: ideas for leftist humiliation - 11/22/2011 6:55:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzeQ

quote:

Ishtarr took care of the questions you refused to answer
What questions have I refused to answer? I've answered every one of your weird questions, its what I've been doing for pages. You haven't answered any of mine.

So how about you answer the question I asked Ishtarr?

quote:

They force people into a position of talking about their religious views, without the option to consent to this.
That's a whole different approach than:

"Excuse me, would you mind talking to me about my savior for a moment?"

Either a blatant question to a stranger about sexuality or the bullying a stranger into a conversation about religious view is just poor form, and rude. Because it forces people into a position they explicitly didn't consent to.

Doing this in a kinky setting is just as wrong as when a religious person does it out of conviction. If you want to approach a stranger with potentially embarrassing and confrontational questions, the polite thing to do is make them aware of this BEFORE you bully them into a conversation they may not want to take part of.

As I said, Ishtarr already answered your question.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SuzeQ)

RE: ideas for leftist humiliation - 11/22/2011 6:56:03 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzeQ

Thanks for answering Ishtarr. So, just to clarify, if he had his sub go around asking people: "Excuse me, would you mind talking to me about my savior for a moment?" as part of their humiliation play, you would consider that acceptable?

Yes, I wouldn't have a problem with that, because it asks people if they're okay with being involved.
However, I would still feel they need to have some contingency plan to make the conversation a non-embarasing experience for these people who actually agree to have the conversation. Blowing them off if they agree to talk about it wouldn't be appropriate, because they specifically consented to having the conversation, and not to be used and then cast aside when they give the "wrong" answer.
In other words, if she's asking people to consent to talk about religion, she needs to make sure she actually has something to say about religion. Otherwise she's asking for consent for a situation that isn't applicable to her actual goal, which renders the consent irrelevant.

But that's an easy thing to accomplish, because mandatory Bible study can be a part of the humiliation in and of itself. Especially if she gets the assignment to do something like research Bible quotes about wives' duties to be submissive to their husbands and so on.

ETA:

She can even stay completely genuine if she must, by actively seeking out devoted Christians and asking them to talk to her about their faith, with the context being that she has a hard time having faith herself.
Attempts to convert her will probably be just as humiliating to her as bothering random strangers. And Christians are usually happy to talk to somebody who has no faith, or who has trouble having faith, about finding God.

Considering how many options there are to do this type of humiliation without forcing non-consenting bystanders in potentially humiliating, confrontational or annoying situations, I would consider it extremely poor form to not find options that don't bother anybody else.

I'm not religious, so I don't care about the disrespect to religious symbols at all. Like I said earlier: he can fuck her with a crucifix for all I care. Hell, do it on the altar of an abandoned church while praying to God, if you must... just don't bother other people when there is no reason to do so.
I mean, it's hardly the end of the world or anything. People do stupid, disrespectful and annoying things all the time. It's a part of life, and when confronted with it, you have to just deal. But if you have an option between definitely not humiliating random strangers, or potentially humiliating random strangers, I don't see a reason to go with option B when option A is just as easy and gratifying.

< Message edited by Ishtarr -- 11/22/2011 7:21:07 PM >

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Ein kleiner Schnitt und du wirst geil
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Ich tu' dir weh.
Tut mir nicht Leid!
Das tut dir gut.
Hör wie es schreit!

(in reply to SuzeQ)

RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/22/2011 7:03:34 PM

SuzeQ

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quote:

Im sorry, thats a very lazy way of responding.

???? Answering your questions directly one by one is a lazy way of answering? What more do you want?

quote:

I asked for the specific questions.

I gave them to you. They are right there in the links I posted, click on the links and you'll see the exact wording of the questions we asked.

quote:

And, yes, you are pulling people into your kink without consent.

How exactly are we doing that? We ask them if we can ask them some questions, and you yourself said: "You have obtained their consent to be a witness to what is happening... which is all I ever asked for." which is the same thing. You're reaching for straws and you're contradicting yourself in the same post.

quote:

when someone gets angry enough, then let us know about it.

????? Why in God's name would anybody get angry?

quote:

If your surveys were for school, or in any way scientific, you would have the results published on line.

They are for the posters on the boards, nobody ever said they were for school, I'm not sure where you got that idea. And of course they're not rigorously scientific, we just ask a bunch of random people the same questions and report the results. And the results are published online, so there!

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/22/2011 7:08:28 PM

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FR

If you want to add torture to the humiliation, make her run the church rummage sale.

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to SuzeQ)

RE: ideas for leftist humiliation - 11/22/2011 7:12:55 PM

SuzeQ

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Great!, we're in agreement then, that it isn't in and of itself "not cool". I agree that how one goes about it is an important factor in determining the degree of "uncoolness".

And I like your ideas, I think those would be far more humiliating, and I think they would be perfectly OK as well, as long as she could maintain the fiction.

(in reply to Ishtarr)

RE: ideas for leftist humiliation - 11/22/2011 7:16:34 PM

SuzeQ

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quote:

As I said, Ishtarr already answered your question.

Yes she did, too bad you didn't do so 4 pages ago when I asked it, eh? Because if you agree with her, you agree with me.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/22/2011 7:28:00 PM

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quote:

???? Answering your questions directly one by one is a lazy way of answering? What more do you want?

Linking back and forth is just crazy. Post number this.. post number that...

~shrugs

To each their own. That is merely my opinion.

quote:

I gave them to you. They are right there in the links I posted, click on the links and you'll see the exact wording of the questions we asked.

Have you never seen a survey given by, say, Gallup? The include a link to the complete survey, minus the results. Your links to the answers with results. The question I wanted to see was about permission to ask such personal questions.

METHODS AND ISSUES IN SEX RESEARCH

In their pursuit of knowledge about human sexual behavior, scientists must not only be concerned with obtaining accurate and useful information about people but also with guarding the rights and welfare of those whom they study. The ethical responsibilities of researchers are formally recognized and codified by professional organizations such as the American Psychological Association and the American Sociological Association and the human research arms of the federal government such as the National Institute of Mental Health. The ethical responsibilities of those who conduct human research involve obligations to ensure that research participation is based upon informed consent and that subjects are not harmed by their participation in the research.

Informed Consent. The principle of informed consent requires that research subjects be fully informed of the potential risks and harm associated with participating in the research, the general type of information to be obtained in the research, and the manner in which their own information will be used. They must understand that they are free not to participate and that they may withdraw at any time even if they do agree to participate. When minors are involved, their parents or guardians must provide informed consent.

http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/BIB/HTF/methiss.htm

quote:

How exactly are we doing that? We ask them if we can ask them some questions, and you yourself said: "You have obtained their consent to be a witness to what is happening... which is all I ever asked for." which is the same thing. You're reaching for straws and you're contradicting yourself in the same post.

I havent seen once you post anything about asking for their consent, which is what this has been all about.

quote:

????? Why in God's name would anybody get angry?

I dunno, for a number of reasons... Im sure if you think hard enough you can come up with a few.

quote:

They are for the posters on the boards, nobody ever said they were for school, I'm not sure where you got that idea. And of course they're not rigorously scientific, we just ask a bunch of random people the same questions and report the results. And the results are published online, so there!

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzeQ

quote:

Surveys crossing the line? I don't get that one either.
We are, by the standards being used in this thread, imposing the kinks of the entire board on the unconsenting public. or do you really think that the bulk of the membership didn't get a kick out of the idea of the three of us approaching random guys to ask them their opinion of being buttfucked with a strap on?

When you were asked about this, repeatedly, you side stepped your way around it...

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

We are, by the standards being used in this thread, imposing the kinks of the entire board on the unconsenting public.

Not true. People are warned that there is adult content on this thread when they sign up for an account, are they not?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzeQ

quote:

Not true. People are warned that there is adult content on this thread when they sign up for an account, are they not?
The people we survey aren't on this site.

People... on this site.... make sure you understand that part... on this site consent to adult content.

People... in public... not on this site... but out of the box... in public do not consent to adult content.

At which point, it requires you to ask them if its ok if you ask them those types of questions.

With me so far?

Which means... You have obtained their consent...

We ask them if we can ask them some questions, and you yourself said: "You have obtained their consent to be a witness to what is happening... which is all I ever asked for." which is the same thing.

We ask them if we can ask them some questions is not the same as giving consent for adult types of questions.

If you do obtain their consent for adult types of questions, then your post...

quote:

We are, by the standards being used in this thread, imposing the kinks of the entire board on the unconsenting public. or do you really think that the bulk of the membership didn't get a kick out of the idea of the three of us approaching random guys to ask them their opinion of being buttfucked with a strap on?

Is in error.

If you do not obtain their consent to ask adult type of questions, then you are not giving them informed consent, which is what should be done with surveys of this nature...

quote:

We ask them if we can ask them some questions, and you yourself said: "You have obtained their consent to be a witness to what is happening... which is all I ever asked for." which is the same thing.

... and is not the same thing.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 11/22/2011 7:29:07 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to SuzeQ)

RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/22/2011 7:56:32 PM

SuzeQ

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quote:

Have you never seen a survey given by, say, Gallup?

WTF??? They're just silly little polls we take for the boards. They're not meant to be definitive studies.

quote:

I havent seen once you post anything about asking for their consent, which is what this has been all about.

Well duh. As if we just walk up to several hundred people and start with "Hey, if a guy gets fucked up the ass by a woman with a strapon does that make him gay?" Get real.

quote:

When you were asked about this, repeatedly, you side stepped your way around it...

First of all, when I was asked about what? The surveys? I've answered every question about them, show me one instance of me sidestepping anything about the surveys, or anything else for that matter.

And as for the rest, no, I'm not in error, we don't tell them the survey is mostly for the entertainment of a bunch of pervs on a kink website. So by the standards that were being applied to the question at the time I asked that question, they haven't given consent.

Now I have some question for you,
1. What on earth is your point?
2. How in God's name is any of this rot relevant to anything?
3. What planet are you from?

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/22/2011 7:56:53 PM

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Tazzy,

They are college girls playing silly games with other college kids. Their "surveys" are meaningless, and I've no doubt they are aware they have no scientific merit. Comes across more as a sorority hazing game.

However, everyone has said the same thing for what? Sixteen pages now? Explaining and re-explaining to the argumentative. Because all agreed that while we may not agree with it, it was the involvement of others that was distasteful and improper. It wasn't unclear, yet for sixteen pages, it was made to seem so. It really isn't worth the time because it is, after all, not a search for understanding, but just another game to be argumentative and keep asking questions. Like the kid in the back of the car screaming every 10 seconds, "are we there yet?"

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/22/2011 8:01:51 PM

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I agree, LL.. and had already decided to end this.. whatever this is of hers. She is playing games and believing she is cute about it. I suppose others will tell her she is. But non-consent, for me, is a sore point. Even as a game, asking people personal, sexual questions without asking their consent first is plain rude.

Sorry to the OP for this many paged derail! You have some great ideas!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/22/2011 8:56:09 PM

SuzeQ

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quote:

Because all agreed that while we may not agree with it, it was the involvement of others that was distasteful and improper.

Really? All agreed did they? Well, I just went back through the thread and guess what, 64 people have posted on the thread.
14 made suggestions that involved the public, so presumably they don't agree
34 made comments unrelated to the issue of public consent
8 are opposed on the grounds of public non-consent, two of whom say its fine as long as you get some form of consent, even if that consent is basically tricking them.
8 question whether public non-consent is really an issue in this case. These 8 include Rochsub and LadyPact, hardly just argumentative college girls.

Hardly a convincing majority of opinion.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/22/2011 9:34:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
They are college girls playing silly games with other college kids.

They are busy people who in all likelihood have better things to do than spend hours of their own free time conduct surveys for some thread on the internet. Their willingness to do so is admirable.

Their "surveys" are meaningless, and I've no doubt they are aware they have no scientific merit. Comes across more as a sorority hazing game.

If you think so, you are welcome to conduct a survey of your own, and share the results. The merit that they have is to provide some level of objectivity to discussions that would otherwise be based solely on idle speculation. But by all means, if you think you can do a better job, go for it.

However, everyone has said the same thing for what? Sixteen pages now? Explaining and re-explaining to the argumentative. Because all agreed that while we may not agree with it, it was the involvement of others that was distasteful and improper.

No, ALL did not agree that involving others was distasteful and improper. As a matter of fact, many agreed that it WASN'T, provided that the people being involved weren't embarrassed in any way.

It wasn't unclear, yet for sixteen pages, it was made to seem so.

Personally, i think many of the arguments, on either side, had merit. i thought it was a good thread for that reason.

It really isn't worth the time because it is, after all, not a search for understanding, but just another game to be argumentative and keep asking questions. Like the kid in the back of the car screaming every 10 seconds, "are we there yet?"

In the past, i have seen threads that seemed to have no other purpose than to provide an excuse to trade snark, make fun of others, and engage in pointless argumentation. I do not think this thread fits that description.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 11/22/2011 10:23:03 PM >

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(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/22/2011 9:53:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

However, everyone has said the same thing for what? Sixteen pages now? Explaining and re-explaining to the argumentative. Because all agreed that while we may not agree with it, it was the involvement of others that was distasteful and improper.

I didn't agree either. And argumentative depends on which side of the table you are sitting on.

Truthfully, i'd be bored silly with "christian" humiliation.

_____________________________

I had become insane, with horrific lapses of sanity. Edgar Allen Poe

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/22/2011 9:54:06 PM

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Dress like a priest.
Its the oldest story in the book...

(in reply to thishereboi)

RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/22/2011 10:44:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzeQ

quote:

Because all agreed that while we may not agree with it, it was the involvement of others that was distasteful and improper.
Really? All agreed did they? Well, I just went back through the thread and guess what, 64 people have posted on the thread.
14 made suggestions that involved the public, so presumably they don't agree
34 made comments unrelated to the issue of public consent
8 are opposed on the grounds of public non-consent, two of whom say its fine as long as you get some form of consent, even if that consent is basically tricking them.
8 question whether public non-consent is really an issue in this case. These 8 include Rochsub and LadyPact, hardly just argumentative college girls.

Hardly a convincing majority of opinion.

You are failing statistics little one. Lady Pact said:

quote:

The t-shirt idea is great. Growing your own garden of Eden? Not so much. You're involving the priest without his consent. Get a friend to play the priest who is in on the idea? That's a thought. Approaching others in public to ask if they have been saved? Probably not. You have no idea of how the person who is being approached is going to react. Look how many folks on this thread said they wouldn't appreciate that from someone and think of the reaction they might get.

Playing with humiliation can be fun. Just not at the expense of someone who didn't really agree to play the game with you.

If you really want to argue with people, turn off the computer and practice with people at your level. Me? I'm done. This childish behavior thinking you are throwing rapid fire questions that really never say anything but that you lack a degree of common sense to survive in the real world on your own. Which you don't.

I won't even comment on the absolute ridiculousness of you counting each and every post. Surely you must have something better to do.

(in reply to SuzeQ)

RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/22/2011 10:50:59 PM

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Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
They are college girls playing silly games with other college kids.

They are busy people who in all likelihood have better things to do than spend hours of their own free time conduct surveys for some thread on the internet. Their willingness to do so is admirable.

Really? What is it they are so busy doing? Going to school? Some don't even work. So how busy can they be? It isn't "admirable" that they go ask people sexually based questions. They don't do it for the "message boards." They do it to get their own kicks.

quote:

Their "surveys" are meaningless, and I've no doubt they are aware they have no scientific merit. Comes across more as a sorority hazing game.

If you think so, you are welcome to conduct a survey of your own, and share the results. The merit that they have is to provide some level of objectivity to discussions that would otherwise be based solely on idle speculation. But by all means, if you think you can do a better job, go for it.

So you know nothing about how surveys are actually conducted if they are to have some type of meritorious value other than the amusement of people on a kink website. Got it.

quote:

However, everyone has said the same thing for what? Sixteen pages now? Explaining and re-explaining to the argumentative. Because all agreed that while we may not agree with it, it was the involvement of others that was distasteful and improper.

No, ALL did not agree that involving others was distasteful and improper. As a matter of fact, many agreed that it WASN'T, provided that the people being involved weren't embarrassed in any way.

It wasn't unclear, yet for sixteen pages, it was made to seem so.

Personally, i think many of the arguments, on either side, had merit. i thought it was a good thread for that reason.

It really isn't worth the time because it is, after all, not a search for understanding, but just another game to be argumentative and keep asking questions. Like the kid in the back of the car screaming every 10 seconds, "are we there yet?"

In the past, i have seen threads that seemed to have no other purpose than to provide an excuse to trade snark, make fun of others, and engage in pointless argumentation. I do not think this thread fits that description.

pam

You are right, there is an overabundance of snarking. But when someone asks a question, but doesn't like the answer, so proceeds to ask the same questions over and over, it is childish. It is also a habit. Arguing against something for the sake of being against it is childish. It was childish when my son was 5 and did it, and it is childish now.

< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 11/22/2011 10:51:55 PM >

(in reply to gungadin09)

RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/22/2011 10:53:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

However, everyone has said the same thing for what? Sixteen pages now? Explaining and re-explaining to the argumentative. Because all agreed that while we may not agree with it, it was the involvement of others that was distasteful and improper.

I didn't agree either. And argumentative depends on which side of the table you are sitting on.

Truthfully, i'd be bored silly with "christian" humiliation.

Once again, the subject was not Christian humiliation, but the location of the humiliation and the involvement of others who are not playing the same game.

(in reply to anniezz338)

RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/22/2011 11:01:20 PM

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In that case i dare you: conduct a scientific survey on this topic yourself, and show us how it's done. You can even ask the participants if they consent to being asked sexually explicit questions before you start. That way, you need have no ethical qualms about it.

pam

_____________________________

[link] www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlvDnbFOkYY [/link]

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/23/2011 1:01:17 AM

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Ay, annoying not-a-lawyer lady.

The hot redheaded bird said, among other things,

The t-shirt idea is great. So no problem there
Not so much. So not completely out of the question
Probably not. So again not out of the question.

Seems less that complete agreement that is distasteful and improper, rather that it might not always be. and the smart one said what again? Ah that's right, she said they question whether public non-consent is really an issue in this case. Now, maybe it isn't so in all the courtrooms you frequent, but elsewhere when somebody says that something is probably not OK, but it might be, that means they are questioning if the reason given for it being wrong are necessarily true, don't you think?

quote:

Me? I'm done.

And we've heard that before from you haven't we annoying at-best-a-paralegal lady? What's happened, no threats this time?

quote:

I won't even comment on the absolute ridiculousness of you counting each and every post.

You didn't count on anybody doing that when you made your own claim to supreme ridiculousness did you. So, just who are these "everybody" and "all" who agree with you then woman? Seems you're lying again, and you're resorting to insults again as well aren't you?

Now why don't you go buy yourself a nice large cucumber and put it to good use, it will reduce your stress greatly.

_____________________________

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: ideas for christian humiliation - 11/23/2011 1:07:45 AM

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Joined: 7/1/2009
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quote:

Once again, the subject was not Christian humiliation,

Now that's terribly odd, I could have sworn the title of this thread was "ideas for christian humiliation". You know, you behave rather oddly for one one who professes the Christian faith.

< Message edited by SixMore2Go -- 11/23/2011 1:09:59 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

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