Collarchat.com

Join Our Community		 Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 9:54:29 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

4) Clearly differentiate between rape as an assault which should be prosecuted as such, and so-called date rape. Conflating the two has not worked.


Sounds like you think rape is only committed by strangers at gun point in alleys, but I don't want to put words in your mouth - what's your dispute with acquaintance rape?

I think states do differentiate by having a different category for "aggravated" rape - my state has different penalties depending on whether weapons are used and other states do the same for using date rape drugs in addition to federal penalties.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/d/date-rape/

Victims of date rape were raped by an individual with whom they were acquainted. In many such cases, the establishment of guilt becomes difficult, particularly in cases where the victim displays no physical evidence of violence and there is only the testimony of the victim. Date rape studies show that there is a high incidence of under-reporting of this crime, often due to loss of memory of the victim.

There are certain "date rape" drugs that render the victim unconscious and limit memory, such as GHB and Rohypnol; using these drugs on somebody is not actually "date rape" but a federal crime with a possible 20 year sentence. In 2000, President Clinton signed a federal law banning the possession of distribution of the date rape drug called GHB. The fact that the parties knew each other or that the woman willingly accompanied the man are not legal defenses to a charge of rape.

The following is an Indiana statute dealing with date rape:

Rape

Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), a person who knowingly or intentionally has sexual intercourse with a member of the opposite sex when:

the other person is compelled by force or imminent threat of force;
the other person is unaware that the sexual intercourse is occurring; or
the other person is so mentally disabled or deficient that consent to sexual intercourse cannot be given; commits rape, a Class B felony.
(b) An offense described in subsection (a) is a Class A felony if:

it is committed by using or threatening the use of deadly force;
it is committed while armed with a deadly weapon;
it results in serious bodily injury to a person other than a defendant; or
the commission of the offense is facilitated by furnishing the victim, without the victim's knowledge, with a drug (as defined in IC 16-42-19-2(1)) or a controlled substance (as defined in IC 35-48-1-9) or knowing that the victim was furnished with the drug or controlled substance without the victim's knowledge.

(in reply to samboct)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 9:58:56 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Of course men can get raped as well. But it's almost exclusively done by...other men.
I also don't really get what you mean about taking "date rape" out of the rape category. A woman can most definitely go out with someone she thinks is a decent man and be raped...on the first or the fifteenth date. It doesn't matter if he took her to McDonalds or to Four Seasons, if a man forces himself sexually on an unwilling person, it is rape.


_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to samboct)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 10:06:39 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Really? Let's say these idiots made a list of people they'd like to shoot in the back of the head then? You know, Columbine style. What then? Let them stay? Nope.


We're just gonna have to agree to disagree then. We don't usually do that but, in this case, we obviously do The idea of punishing people for something they think about doing but have not done and honestly probably have zero intention of actually attempting to do is over the top fascist behavior imo. You should hear the things I verbally threaten to do to idiot fuckin' drivers around me everyday. That doesn't mean I'd ever do it. And I don't just write it down on a list somewhere, I actually angrily exclaim it. Still doesn't mean I'd ever do it. Should I be arrested for feeling/exclaiming that in my own vehicle because I have the "potential" to do it? No fuckin' way. Neither should these idiots be thrown out of school for adding their input to this stupid list. If you start down that slippery slope, where the hell does it end?

luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 11:00:57 AM   
samboct


Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		Angel-

Nope-

Kalikshama- I'll go with rape needs the threat of physical violence. Not relevant whether or not you know the person- also irrelevant number of dates etc.

However, I don't think the following falls under rape- but certainly does involve sexual coercion-

Sexual predator to an 18 y.o.- Have sex with me or I'll tell your folks that you were masturbating to someone on cam.

18 y.o. decides to have sex- but is this rape? To me, this is coercion- and the two are not the same. But given the way the rape questions in surveys have been asked- these events can be conflated.

My personal experience...

A long time ago a women I was friends with and I got hot and heavy into petting, and it led to the bedroom. I stopped the proceedings when I noticed she was crying- and I've remained friends with her today, although we've never discussed the event. But this seems to me to be perilously close to date rape as its often been defined, and from my perspective- it's bad communication- something often endemic in sex. What if I hadn't noticed her tears or thought that was part of the game? Rape should NOT be about bad communication between men and women- and yet, date rape gets very, very close. All other major crimes- well, you know the difference in between robbing someone, murdering someone, or stealing their car.

I don't consider myself a criminal. My friends don't either. But according to the definitions of date rape, I was perilously close to crossing that line- and I'm sorry, but I can't hold someone who's in a situation where judgement gets thrown out the window, i.e. sexual excitement, responsible for his/her actions where such a fine degree of discrimination is called for. This would be a law where humans would have to be automatons and not human, and it utterly ignores the nature of sex.

Sam

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 11:01:48 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

When men stop being the instigators of rape ok? Until then,  no. Fuck sake, these snotty little frat boys should all be tossed out of school for having the potential to be rapists. Self entitled little pricks.


Self entitled little pricks though they may be, you can't take action against people for what they may potentially do. Anyone has the potential to be a rapist. That doesn't guarantee they ever actually would be. That's taking us into "Minority Report" territory there. Scary stuff...........luci



Send a letter threatening to assault or kill someone, action can be taken. Case after case after case has come through the courts involving peopl who have attempted to hire someone to commit murder.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 11:05:38 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Kalikshama- I'll go with rape needs the threat of physical violence. Not relevant whether or not you know the person- also irrelevant number of dates etc.


Ah so drugging someone, which isnt violence, doesnt constitute as rape.

Rape is sex without consent. Drugs remove the ability to make consent. No contract between two entities will hold up in any court if the consent was obtained through coercion. Consent null and void. No consent, then its rape.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to samboct)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 11:09:44 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I don't consider myself a criminal. My friends don't either. But according to the definitions of date rape, I was perilously close to crossing that line- and I'm sorry, but I can't hold someone who's in a situation where judgement gets thrown out the window, i.e. sexual excitement, responsible for his/her actions where such a fine degree of discrimination is called for. This would be a law where humans would have to be automatons and not human, and it utterly ignores the nature of sex.


Yes, you were. Sex isnt just about tab A into slot B. The bolded part screams of someone who allows his/her genitals to control them.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to samboct)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 11:23:15 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Sam, So you have never been raped and taken it through trial, you have never been a part of a trial wherein the victim was a rape victim -- seriously, i think you should experience one of those prior to deciding things aren't this or are that or should be this and that in the investigation and awareness concept.   Not trying to be a bitch here but i don't think you have a clue what the victim goes through man or woman and they usually can tell as far as my experience goes what gender raped them.  I don't think we need to start second guessing the victim in their determination of whether it was a man or woman who raped them.

MOST rapes don't go to trial because of the concept that the victim is put on trial, that it's hard to prove or the defendant pleads to a lesser charge.   However, that doesn't mean that the victim isn't put through a whole hell of a lot of crap prior to this conclusion.

Here are the pattern jury instructions for crimes constituting rape in TN:

http://www.tncrimlaw.com/TPI_Crim/index.htm

Section 10.00

01 Aggravated Rape
02 Rape
03 Aggravated Sexual Battery
04 Sexual Battery
04(a) Sexual Battery by Authority Figure
05 Statutory Rape
06 Spousal Rape
06(a) Aggravated Spousal Rape
07 Spousal Sexual Battery
08 Promoting Prostitution
09 Prostitution
10 Patronizing Prostitution
11 Indecent Exposure
12 Rape of a Child
13 Aggravated Prostitution
14 Reserved
15 Public Indecency
15(b) Public Indecency (Supplemental Instruction) If you look at these they are Gender Neutral.  So i don't get your beef about legally it needs to be gender neutral, it is. Rape is rape, and whether you know it or not, its one of the hardest types of crimes to prosecute because 1) its one of the few crimes where the victim gets put on trial even though they shouldn't be, 2) many people are wary of reporting it because of the stigma that was attached to it for so long, 3) god forbid they had been drinking or dated or hell even married the person who raped them.   You speak of murder gender neutrality and in all actuality, that isn't true -- when a woman is murdered, the number one belief is that a spouse or domestic partner (which the majority is still a man), or outside of that, the unsub is usually thought of initially as a man.    Sexual crimes are profiles as by the opposite sex, simply because that is the majority of sexual encounters. Now you may think it would be all cool to make rape a gender neutral concept because gee wizz we are almost in 2012 and EVERYTHING is gender neutral nowadays, but you know what -- when trying to solve these types of crimes, i don't want the cops wasting time on BS of political correctness of trying to be politically correct in looking a allll sexes for the rape.  I want them to utilize every possible knowledge as fast as they can to catch the person who raped a woman or even a Man.  Sorry but in terms of catching a rapist, TIME is of the essence.  And no, a crime like rape doesn't need to abide by political correctness and wasting time going through the motions of trying to be politically correct.  The VICTIMS are usually the ones who set the investigation and when a victim tells the cops a MAN raped them, i will be damned if our society needs the cops to waste, time, manpower and the counties money looking at suspects of different genders to passify some silly discrimination concept you seem to be concerned about. Are mistakes made, yes, but i have yet to come across a case where it was a case of mistaken GENDER that raped someone. angel 


< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/18/2011 11:25:57 AM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 11:35:14 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		So Sam.....because my daughter accepted an open beverage that contained more than soda, found herself staggering down a strange street 100 miles from home hours later, her clothing torn, obvious indications of vaginal intercourse.......but not beat or dead, yet no idea what had happened, to you that is not rape?

BTW....it was on a college campus.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 12/18/2011 11:47:02 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to samboct)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 11:35:53 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

A long time ago a women I was friends with and I got hot and heavy into petting, and it led to the bedroom. I stopped the proceedings when I noticed she was crying- and I've remained friends with her today, although we've never discussed the event. But this seems to me to be perilously close to date rape as its often been defined,


Whose definition? Not Indiana's, above. In the situation you described, you weren't using force or drugs and she wasn't impaired.

Not Ross's:

8. Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs?
9. Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man threatened or used some degree of physical force (twisting your arm, holding you down, etc.) to make you?
10. Have you had sexual acts (anal or oral intercourse or penetration by objects other than the penis) when you didn't want to because a man threatened or used some degree of physical force (twisting your arm, holding you down, etc.) to make you?

(in reply to samboct)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 1:41:13 PM   
Casteele


Posts: 655
Joined: 12/10/2011
From: Near Sacramento, California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
The idea of punishing people for something they think about doing but have not done and honestly probably have zero intention of actually attempting to do is over the top fascist behavior imo.

When you can clearly demonstrate that there was truly zero intention of doing so, then you are completely correct. You can know your own intentions, as they are your own, but since you can only make a "best guess" of the intentions of others, this enters a gray area. Most laws have specific criteria by which to determine "intentions" in as much of an objective manner as is humanly possible.
quote:


You should hear the things I verbally threaten to do to idiot fuckin' drivers around me everyday. That doesn't mean I'd ever do it. And I don't just write it down on a list somewhere, I actually angrily exclaim it. Still doesn't mean I'd ever do it. Should I be arrested for feeling/exclaiming that in my own vehicle because I have the "potential" to do it? No fuckin' way. Neither should these idiots be thrown out of school for adding their input to this stupid list. If you start down that slippery slope, where the hell does it end?

You said it yourself. You simply blurt out something in sudden, uncontrolled anger or frustration. And that's the end of it. Legally, many jurisdictions classify that as a crime called "harassment." Now, if you were to make a habit of thoughtfully keeping a pad of paper in your vehicle with the intention of writing down their license plates for a record, or even worse, the intention of publishing such a list somewhere that others can collect those plates and harass those other drivers, then that becomes premeditated, and no longer just an emotional outburst. Premeditated harassment is generally considered a more sever crime.

And before/if you argue that you did not act on the list or had no intentions to do so.. You would be wrong. The very ACT of making the list is the act, as I highlighted. I didn't say "thought about making such a list," or anything that did not lead to some kind of action. (But again, even the blurting out "I'm going to follow you home and and beat the snot out of you" in anger can be declared an action, but the laws generally recognize that it was emotionally prompted, and consider it a more minor crime.)

Let's look at it regarding another scenario. Let's say a violent gang moves in to your area, and goes from house to house, door to door. They ring the doorbell and and when you open the door, they point a gun at you and say "We're moving in, and if you piss us off, you're dead, got it?" Then they walk to the next door. Are they committing a crime?

If you truly stand by your argument above, they are not committing a crime until such time as they follow through with the threat and actually shoot someone. How would you feel if, after receiving only the threat, you immediately called the police and they told you "Did they actually shoot you? Are you dead? No? Sorry, no crime was committed, so there's nothing we can do. Have a nice day!" (Had to struggle with not adding a sarcastic "Please call us again once you've been shot dead" to that :-P)

Edit: Corrected some poor, inaccurate, and accusatory wording on my part.


< Message edited by Casteele -- 12/18/2011 1:45:01 PM >

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 2:23:14 PM   
Casteele


Posts: 655
Joined: 12/10/2011
From: Near Sacramento, California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I don't consider myself a criminal. My friends don't either. But according to the definitions of date rape, I was perilously close to crossing that line- and I'm sorry, but I can't hold someone who's in a situation where judgement gets thrown out the window, i.e. sexual excitement, responsible for his/her actions where such a fine degree of discrimination is called for. This would be a law where humans would have to be automatons and not human, and it utterly ignores the nature of sex.


Yes, you were. Sex isnt just about tab A into slot B. The bolded part screams of someone who allows his/her genitals to control them.

My thoughts are borderline here. I agree partly with both points. I'm glad sam caught himself and stopped.. and I see and agree that many factors need to be considered when evaluating the entire situation. Was there rape/date-rape here? I do not think so. Was there a sexual crime committed at all? I DO think so. Is one acceptable and the other is not? No, neither should be acceptable.

The following is how I view and believe a womans perspective to be, but I could be wrong, so please correct me if I am, ladies..

One thing I agree completely with many of the women here (although I also agree that topics such as rape should be evaluated in a gender-neutral fashion, while still considering the genders of both the victim and perpetrator) that most men really do not understand the full range of effects of rape. Many seem to believe rape is a purely physical act, and that is where it ends. But the fact is, IF it was all about the physical act, I doubt woman would make as big a deal about being raped. It would become like many men seem to see it; You fall down and scrape a knee, so put a band-aid on it and it'll heal and go away.

The major harm and damage in rape (or most sexual crimes, really) is not the physical act, it's the repercussions that the act has upon the psyche of the victim. I've always viewed it kind of like this: Your home is one of your very private, personal spaces. How would you feel if someone tried, or succeeded, in forcing their way in to your home, and did whatever they wanted with your belongings? How would you feel if someone else said "Bah, get over it. It's just a silly home, and your being materialistic about your belongings!"

Yet, thats exactly the king of response I often see from many people (even women) regarding rape. Look around you. Look how we view and treat women. How we encourage or discourage certain behaviors. Look at the media. Look how we train women to focus so much on their bodies and their sexuality as being their very identity. Women must be beautiful, sexy, hot, gorgeous, perfect bodies, et cetera. And they must show complete excitement and thrill whenever someone makes a comment, no matter how crude or crass, "complimenting" or "appreciating" their perfection and beauty.

In such an environment, a woman's body and her sexuality become her "home," a very private and personal space in which only those whom trespass are those whom she invites in. And I do not just mean physically by "inserting tab A into tab B," but emotionally and mentally as well--think of it like your front and back yard in this case. Your home is more than the four walls; it includes the space surrounding it. Any unwelcome or unwanted trespass is a clear violation of that personal space, and it attacks her very identity. It destroys any sense of security and safety she may have (Guys, ever notice how many women have a strong need for feeling safe and security? Put two and two together, will ya!?), and often leads her to the brink or even completely over the edge, of a mental and emotional breakdown.

This is why I believe so many women take such a hard and firm stand on topics like rape, and not because they are femi-nazi's or some such.

Please forgive me if I come off as preachy or anything here, my intention and rationale is twofold; One, I see so many women get very emotional on these topics, and I think that impairs their ability to present themselves in a disassociated and objective manner. And two, partly because of the previous, and partly because of gender differences, I think most men are more willing to listen to and consider these things if another man were to say them than the many women who do.

Well, and three, I would really like to see this topic continue a very mature and intelligent discussion on the topic, and not become derailed by hot headed emotions. I think most of us are on the same side regarding these issues, so it seems silly to me that we draw battle-lines between us.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 3:23:22 PM   
SweetCheri


Posts: 228
Joined: 10/16/2011
From: Hopefully in my place.
Status: offline 		If you beat me til I can't resist, it is rape. If you hold me down, it is rape. If you drug me, it is rape. If I am passed out drunk, it is rape. If you threaten me or my loved ones in any way, it is rape. If you scare me into it, it is rape.

Bottom line: Unless I say yes and mean it, without any coercion, it is rape.


_____________________________

Une fille d'Ottawa
Grandit je ne sais pas.


CG/HH

(in reply to samboct)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 3:24:18 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, by god, let's quit fucking around here then, What say you, woman?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to SweetCheri)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 5:33:49 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

One, I see so many women get very emotional on these topics, and I think that impairs their ability to present themselves in a disassociated and objective manner.


The only emotion I'm feeling is disappointment in Sam. Despite the mildness of this emotion, I do attach significance to it, as normally when we are on opposite sides of the debate I just dispassionately think he's wrong, while respecting his intelligence.

(in reply to Casteele)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 5:54:39 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

My thoughts are borderline here. I agree partly with both points. I'm glad sam caught himself and stopped.. and I see and agree that many factors need to be considered when evaluating the entire situation. Was there rape/date-rape here? I do not think so.


And while you are entitled to your opinion, I am equally entitled to mine... without your assumption that I am speaking from an emotional place merely because I am a woman.

Having said that, yes, he was dangerously close... he saw her tears... unless I am consenting to a caning before sex, I dont cry... well... I might if the sex is that good, but by that point consent is pretty damn clear all the way around.

Men can be raped just like women. Men dont report it as often. Maybe we should start a rape your man day. Interesting concept. After all, its just sex, why should it matter that a woman can force her way into a man's ass, tell him how much he loves it, to stop denying how turned on he is, what a fucking little cum dumpster he is and how she will enjoy bragging about it to her friends, maybe even arrange a party with him as the man of the hour later with all her girl friends.

I am a slut, self admitted, and I adore being one. I also decide with who, when, were, why, and how often. No one has the right to make that decision for me, unless I give him that right. Rape is someone deciding that have that right.

Cheri said it very well... men need to read her post.

Why are women so passionate about ensuring the facts of rape are heard? Because the lies of the past are frighteningly real.

She asked for it.

She really wanted it.

She didnt fight me.

She didnt say no.

She drank too much to know, but I know she really wanted it.

She is my wife, I own her.

We had sex before.

She had sex with three of my friends.

Everyone knows she sleeps around.

She is the town slut.

She is a whore.

She is a cock tease.

Want to change all those "she"s to "he"s, be my guest, they are just as appropriate.

All of these are excuses I have heard before. This is the past of rape.

For any man to say.. violence is required... is just sickening and a throw back to the past.

Just a hint fellas, just because my vagina is designed to take a cock doesnt mean your cock is the one its meant to take.

Anyone who takes that decision away from me is guilty of rape.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Casteele)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 6:12:04 PM   
FrostedFlake


Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline
quote:

Casteel
The following is how I view and believe a womans perspective to be, but I could be wrong, so please correct me if I am, ladies..


Good man. Over and above what you said is that you said it. It is important to stand up with your sisters. I want to borrow your quote above and add another thought or two for the guys on the other side of the fence to consider.

I strut confidently down dark alleys after midnight. One of the photos on my page shows why. I can kick over my head. And over yours. I am no larger than many women, but I can put you down. I learned to do this because guys that can't are not treated very well. Women, generally speaking, do not have this problem. Therefore are much less likely to solve it. And consequently are generally not allowed in dark alleys after midnight. Without an escort. There are other places women are not allowed, without an escort. In fact, there are places women are not even allowed outside their homes without an escort.

Think about why.

If the society we live in is better than that it is because we make it so. This is not something we can do individually. It is a social project that requires not merely our own proactive vigilance but also the proactive expectation of that vigilance in our fellows. The fifty young men at the head of this thread failed in that vigilance. That is why we are having this conversation.

I am not satisfied to live in a world where women have to hide from men. Such a world would be dark, cold, absent of beauty and totally lacking of trust. There is an expression; "It only takes one asshole." Don't be that guy.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 6:39:48 PM   
EmilyRocks


Posts: 357
Joined: 5/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

I learned to do this because guys that can't are not treated very well. Women, generally speaking, do not have this problem. Therefore are much less likely to solve it.
True, we learn martial arts and other self defence techniques in order to actually defend ourselves against rapists, not to impress other men with our manliness and macho prowess.
quote:

And consequently are generally not allowed in dark alleys after midnight.
Says who?
quote:

There are other places women are not allowed, without an escort.
Says who?

(in reply to FrostedFlake)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 6:44:01 PM   
EmilyRocks


Posts: 357
Joined: 5/5/2011
Status: offline 		Holy crap!! I didn't think I would ever type these words, but here goes.

Right on tazzy!

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/18/2011 7:35:36 PM   
samboct


Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		Tazzy

Gee- I thought you knew me better than that....I'm a chemist. If I want to knock someone out, I don't know how to use a cosh, but I certainly know how to use chloroform. If I'm knocking someone out (which goes without saying it's against their will) how is this not physical violence- because I used chemistry?

But the bigger problem is your dismissal of biology. You know the joke that god gave man a brain and a penis- but only enough blood to run one at a time? Well, there's a certain truth to it. Sex is not a cold calculating act- well, not for most of at least. There's a reason we call it passion- and passion certainly implies a disregard of reason. So ask a guy who's aroused to think carefully about the mental state of his date? Can he solve a simple math problem- say the square root of 169? How about something more complex at that point? That's the whole point of passion- you're NOT thinking clearly. The Star Trek where Spock gets in a tussle with Kirk over a girl shows this so clearly- its the flaw in your argument. It just ignores human biology.

My problem when I came to the realization that my friend wasn't enjoying herself- well dammit- right before that- I THOUGHT SHE WAS! I was already old enough to have some decent judgement- but when I was younger? Would I expect other men to be able to make that realization at a moment when your brain is not thinking in a calculating fashion- but rather in a passionate mode? No- it's unreasonable and one of my biggest beefs with the idea of well, if a woman says no- that shuts down the act. The biology just doesn't work that way- there's no switch to flip from hot and heavy to gee, let's talk about calculus in a heartbeat. And what other crime happens when you don't know you're committing it?

So Cheri- let's say that I missed the signals and my friend had said when we began petting- by the way- I like it rough- and then had a change of heart when we're in bed, fumbling our clothes off- and she says- gee- no- not interested. She's changed her mind- but how the hell am I supposed to figure that out in that situation? I've got no problems with your definition by the way- you described an assault- and act of violence. I'm concerned about crossed signals which could lead to prosecution for rape, since it would count as "unwanted sexual penetration." which seems to be the definition used to accumulate those statistics.

Kalikshama- sorry to disappoint you, but from my perspective- its not mutual. I'm also not sure what part of my thesis you find so objectionable.

Angel- I've never had anyone I know get murdered (my godson was killed by a driver in an accident, so I don't think that counts) but should murder victims be the only ones who can weigh in on the death penalty? I must have missed the memo on that one. Do I agree that rape is a crime that's difficult to prosecute? Yes. Does the system place a terrible burden on the victim? Yes. What about men falsely accused? Eyewitness accounts are amongst the least reliable form of evidence out there. What about the boyfriend/girlfriend who have a spat and the police are called in to investigate rape? How often are charges dropped or the couple goes back to having sex? How does a cop distinguish between a domestic dispute and an assault? Should we have different standards to prove rape than other crimes?

Back to the thread- one of my prior citations, Christina Ross? was on NPR earlier today (I think it was her.) and I caught a bit of the debate she was involved in- which was "Are men finished?" The audience clearly thought so- her side lost the debate. It seems to me that there's a certain amount of male bashing that's PC. Well, from my perspective, this is the frat boys angry joking response. It's if I'm going to get accused of a crime I didn't commit- well, hell, I might as well go commit it. Men are getting a lot of pressure these days- parents want girls more than boys (hang around fertility clinics- comment off the NPR debate- and yes that goes for China as well)- boys are getting drugged in school in order to make them more tractable- women are graduating college in higher numbers and consequently getting bigger paychecks- and oh yeah- women think that all men are rapists given the whacko statistics out there. Again- there's a difference between a joke and an act. Do I know for certain this is joke? No, but given my experience- that's my bet.


Sam

(in reply to EmilyRocks)
Profile   Post #: 100
Page:   <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.129