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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 8:18:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

There's a big problem with rape statistics out there:

Yeah, a big problem.. and that is that they are massively under-reported..

I agree with both of you, in this way: I believe that "actual rape" (I'm using that term just to distinguish it from some of the previously described spurious "date rape" claims) is very under reported. People who have been truly brutalized will al s ways feel shame and fear and loathe the idea of being put under a microscope (court trial) because, deep-down, they feel that they are responsible.

But, I believe that somewhere along the lines, we've become a litigious society of people that like to paint themselves as "victims". I'm speaking here of some of the "date rape" occurances which I believe to be horribly over reported and over inflated. I think the motivation is one of desensitization and, to some degree, a need for "fame" (and possibly even "fortune" by way of a civil suit)

I am not claiming that these numbers balance each other out but I believe that to some degree, they might.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 12/17/2011 8:20:53 AM >

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 8:28:12 AM

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Hi Michael

This is where I fall back on the Constitution- innocent until proven guilty. I find it hard to take such a poll seriously- to me it's a joke- in poor taste perhaps- but a joke nonetheless. I mean really- you're gonna ask your buddies who do you want to go out an rape? I've never heard a man brag about raping anyone- they'd be more likely to admit that they lifted somebody's wallet and snagged a few bux. But I did hear my college roommates girlfriend yell- "you bastard, you raped me!"- when having sex and them throwing each other around a bit. If she found out that he had a different girl on the side- would she have made that charge to the cops? I wouldn't put it past her.

TJ- if you mean that a number of women and men who when forcibly assaulted/raped, declined to report the assault because of the way that they'd be treated and the difficulty in finding the perpetrator in the absence of physical evidence- yep, I agree. I don't think it's "massively under reported"- I think the true number of assaults is roughly about 5x for women, 10x for men based on some studies where detailed interviews were done with enough individuals to gather data- but there are problems with all such methodologies given varying definitions. I'd consider massive under reported to be orders of magnitude- given the raw numbers, the system should be able to deal with the real numbers of rapes/assaults- massive under reporting smells of a political push for increased police forces and prisons. I will submit that conflating date rape and assault rape has actually probably increased the under reporting of assault rapes since too many women/men think that the assault will be trivialized. Please note that assault rape affects both men and women- and that men are even less likely to report the crime.

Sam

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 8:31:00 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
But, I believe that somewhere along the lines, we've become a litigious society of people that like to paint themselves as "victims". I'm speaking here of some of the "date rape" occurances which I believe to be horribly over reported and over inflated. I think the motivation is one of desensitization and, to some degree, a need for "fame" (and possibly even "fortune" by way of a civil suit)

I am not claiming that these numbers balance each other out but I believe that to some degree, they might.

Fame??? omg, i can think of many other better ways to get fame other than that! Fortune? like all rapists are rich? or do you also think victims can pick their attackers and pick rich ones? do you have any stats on how many rape victims ever get a dime of compensation from a civil suit??? or that the ones that might have done it for financial reasons instead of as a way of punishment, one the attacker might finally understand?

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 8:34:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Hi Michael

This is where I fall back on the Constitution- innocent until proven guilty. I find it hard to take such a poll seriously- to me it's a joke- in poor taste perhaps- but a joke nonetheless. I mean really- you're gonna ask your buddies who do you want to go out an rape? I've never heard a man brag about raping anyone- they'd be more likely to admit that they lifted somebody's wallet and snagged a few bux. But I did hear my college roommates girlfriend yell- "you bastard, you raped me!"- when having sex and them throwing each other around a bit. If she found out that he had a different girl on the side- would she have made that charge to the cops? I wouldn't put it past her.

Sam

Pleas allow me to reiterate:

I think that what they did falls just short of criminal behavior. I agree with you (the constitution is always my fall-back position).

However, I think that their actions teeter on the brink of criminal behavior ("conspiracy", as I pointed out, earlier). But, more importantly, I think their behavior is morally repugnant. I think that that point needs to be driven home for them. I am not speaking about legal action but, as suggested earlier; I think their names should be made public. I think they should be made to understand that while they dodged a legal bullet, their behavior doesn't pass muster in a civil society.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 8:49:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

Fame??? omg, i can think of many other better ways to get fame other than that!

I'm thinking of the young lady who claimed that Kobe Bryant raped her. It didn't happen. I'm thinking of the lady who put Mike Tyson away. Say what you want about the idiot Tyson but her own testimony (in my opinion) did not rise to the level of rape and Tyson was put away because he wasn't liked. I watched every second of that trial and her testimony was essentially identical to the story told by the young lady I referenced before from the Oprah show.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

Fortune? like all rapists are rich? or do you also think victims can pick their attackers and pick rich ones?

Have I been disrespectful to you? No. I'm not stupid but you can't deny that there have been many high profile claims that couldn't be supported by enough evidence or were ajudicated with "not guilty" verdicts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

do you have any stats on how many rape victims ever get a dime of compensation from a civil suit??? or that the ones that might have done it for financial reasons instead of as a way of punishment, one the attacker might finally understand?

I have no such statistics and because of the nature of this kind of thing, I am sure that if they do exist, they wouldn't be accurate. Forget - for a moment - the high profile cases. There are plenty of cases that we'll never hear about that would fall into the "date rape" category (and don't get me started on sexual harrassment) because the "accused" is so afraid of their name becoming public that they will pay up instead of being labeled for the rest of their lives (Michael Jackson comes to mind, here).

The secretary who sleeps with her boss after the office Christmas party and then starts rumbling about how he "took advantage" of her in order to either become his "kept woman" or to make a few sheckles the easy way.

I have already granted you that your claim that actual rape is probably very under reported but please don't think that the converse isn't true and please don't treat me as though I don't have a right to voice that opinion.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 12/17/2011 8:50:15 AM >

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 8:52:49 AM

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OK, I ain't the smartest person in the world, or gots me no college learnin...

BUT what fucking dumbass fills ot a peice of paper (or computer file) even hinting at criminal activity? I think EVERY person that filled that survey should do 30 days in jail and lose their colleg money to someone thats smart enough to at least hide their criminal intent. I actually think this could be considered conspiracy, what a legal mess that is, teach those assholes to THINK about their actions.

As far as inocent until proven guilty, we all know thats a bunch of BS. That is why IF you are unluck enough to be arrested for something you have to put up a bond before they let you out untill your court date, but thats a subject for a different thread....

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 9:04:58 AM

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Hi Michael

We're largely in agreement- but I'm not sure that their actions fall into "conspiracy" whatever that means in this case. Were they instructing their pledges in the mechanics of how to rape someone, i.e. was there a rape handbook available? Or was this just a joke in poor taste? In the absence of anything else supporting a "how to rape"- I lean strongly toward the bad joke hypothesis- and we don't put people in jail or ruin their lives for that- well, we shouldn't. This is part of an education.

I was on campus at Dartmouth back in the 80's and 90s where there was a free speech issue raised that was a lot murkier. A right wing rag with heavy outside financial support, claimed that "pranksters" had changed their masthead to quote Adolf Hitler, rather than Teddy Roosevelt- something on the order-"Better to fail in the attempt of killing all the Jews, rather than not try at all." Most of us found this "prank" rather unbelievable and in extremely poor taste- especially with the president being Jewish, but what nailed it for me was the "apology" which was circulated later. Most people just thought it was a little over the top, but a few of us recognized that it had also been written in the style of Adolf Hitler's writing. Distasteful? Yes. Illegal- well, I still fall back on free speech and to me, there has to be a credible threat to curtail it- and even then, it's a pretty draconian step. I don't think this "threat" is credible.

Sam

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 9:09:45 AM

tj444

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I never said that shit doesnt happen, i just dont happen to think it happens nearly as often as you do. I also think the conviction rate for rape is low, much lower than it should be but thats jmo.

Imo, too many people's attitudes still suck in the dark ages, some people (both female and male, btw) think its ok for a boyfriend to rape his girlfriend if he spends money on her or if they have been going out for a long time.. There are surveys on that, i have posted on previous threads, and quite frankly, i think attitudes have gone backwards in that regard.. So of course, with those kinds of attitudes, these college guys would see nothing wrong in what they did.. That is the problem..

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 9:13:10 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Hi Michael

We're largely in agreement- but I'm not sure that their actions fall into "conspiracy" whatever that means in this case.

Sam

I said that they teetered on criminal behavior. I went into a bit of detail, earlier.

If one of these ladies whose names appear on this list is raped by someone who contributed to this list or even viewed it, a conviction for conspiracy is almost assured. The thing with conspiracy is that it requires an overt act (usually following the "discussion/planning", if you will)(Edited, here: I mis-typed. An overt act is not always a requirement. If you and I are caught planning a criminal act; if we'd agreed upon it, we might even at that point, be found guilty of conspiracy). The "beauty" of conspiracy laws is that the left hand doesn't have to know what the right hand is doing.

If you write a plan to rob a bank (and are dumb enough to sign your name or in some way leave incriminating evidence on that piece of paper) and I happen upon that plan and execute it, we are guilty of conspiracy.

Again; I don't believe that these people are criminals, yet but I think they're dangerously close.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 12/17/2011 9:36:57 AM >

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 9:50:42 AM

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Five years in a penal colony preferably with hard labour for everyone who signed the list.

Freedom of speech is all well and good when people respect the law but when they don't the only other option is to have measures available where they fear the law.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 12:29:56 PM

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College Rape Statistics

• 25% of college women have been victims of rape.
• 8.5% of college men admit to sexually abusing women - but don't consider that rape.
• Of the women who were raped, only 25% described it as rape.
• Of the women who were raped, only 10% reported the assault.
• 47% of the rapes were by dates and romantic acquaintances.

Date Rape Statistics

• 84% of women who were date raped knew their attacker.
• Women who are 16-24 are more than four times as likely to be date raped.
• 90% of date rapes occur when either the victim or attacker was drinking.
• 33% of men said they would date rape someone if it could go undetected.
• 44% of women who were date raped have considered suicide.

Sources include RAINN, University of South Florida, Federal Bureau of Investigation (Uniform Crime
Statistics, 1996), U.S. Department of Justice, Violence against Women (Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S.
Dept. Of Justice

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 12:56:24 PM

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kink is something else..... but

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 1:07:54 PM

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Wow. Thank you Kalika.

Date rape merely means the woman knew her attacker... and maybe even had sex with him/her before. Anyone else remember the days when a woman could not press charges against her husband for rape, even if they were separated?

What date rape did was got rid of the... Oh, we were dating and we had sex before, so I knew it was ok again.

"Date rape", often referred to as acquaintance rape, is an assault or attempted assault usually committed by a new acquaintance involving sexual intercourse without mutual consent.[1][2]
The term date rape is widely used but can be misleading because the person who commits the crime might not be dating the victim. Rather, it could be an acquaintance or stranger.

Honestly, this is what people believed...

The Institute for Relationship Intelligence says:

"Two thirds of teens in one survey said it was okay for a boy to force sex on a girl if they’d been dating for more than six months. A large number said it was okay if the boy/man had spent a lot of money on her. One in three said it was okay if the girl had been sexually active before."[

Do these facts constitute blanket permission for sex?

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 3:13:35 PM

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Kalikashama

Here's an article by a guy that has the same incredulousness as I do about these "statistics". He does a nice back of the envelope calculation...

http://aspiringeconomist.com/index.php/2009/09/11/rape-statistics-1-in-4/

One thing I found of interest- his comment that there's a link between high levels of binge drinking and students engaging in this activity- the higher the reported levels, the more binge drinking. In short, the high reported incidence of rape may in fact be leading to an atmosphere where date rape becomes more acceptable.

A more thorough and scholarly article cited in the previously referenced article may be found here:

http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9502/sommers.html

Again- distortions don't serve a good purpose- truth matters.

Sam

< Message edited by samboct -- 12/17/2011 3:16:02 PM >

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 3:44:37 PM

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I went straight to the scholarly article and found something that had also stood out in earlier reading:

quote:

Koss and her colleagues concluded that 15.4 percent of respondents had been raped, and that 12.1 percent had been victims of attempted rape.[9] Thus, a total of 27.5 percent of the respondents were determined to have been victims of rape or attempted rape because they gave answers that fit Koss's criteria for rape (penetration by penis, finger, or other object under coercive influence such as physical force, alcohol, or threats).

However, that is not how the so-called rape victims saw it. Only about a quarter of the women Koss calls rape victims labeled what happened to them as rape. According to Koss, the answers to the follow-up questions revealed that "only 27 percent" of the women she counted as having been raped labeled themselves as rape victims.[10] Of the remainder, 49 percent said it was "miscommunication," 14 percent said it was a "crime but not rape," and 11 percent said they "don't feel victimized."[11]

This reminds me of my experience being sexually harassed while in the USAF. I wasn't aware of the complete definition, which, according to the EEOC, is:

quote:

Sexual harassment is a form of sex discrimination that violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitutes sexual harassment when submission to or rejection of this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance or creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment.

Sexual harassment can occur in a variety of circumstances, including but not limited to the following:

* The victim as well as the harasser may be a woman or a man. The victim does not have to be of the opposite sex.
* The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, an agent of the employer, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or a non-employee.
* The victim does not have to be the person harassed but could be anyone affected by the offensive conduct.
* Unlawful sexual harassment may occur without economic injury to or discharge of the victim.
* The harasser's conduct must be unwelcome.

The fact that I incorrectly thought sexual harassment was merely "fuck me or you're fired" does not mean that I was not in fact sexually harassed.

So if the victim's personal definition of rape/sexual assault is less broad than the official one, that does not negate them being raped/assaulted.

Company coming; will read the rest of the articles later.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 4:42:17 PM

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Statistics are important and can help a person understand SOME of what is up. But I think missing the point is happening for some. I long ago slightly knew a fabulous babe whose talent was telling THE TRUTH.

Here she is, telling the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wTJ3ZdZrBA

Detect any anger? Would it be about being diminished? There is the point.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 5:02:30 PM

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No is no. I dont care if he is nudging that head into her slit, and its teasing the edges, the minute she says no, its no. Beyond that, its rape. Why should we accept the excuse that he talked her into it? Is coercion now a legal defense? I wont have sex when Im drinking, nor will I have sex with someone who is drinking... there is no consent under the influence.

But, hey, get a woman drunk enough and she will say yes to anything, its not rape.

Get a man drunk enough and he will give you the number to his ATM card, but that is theft.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 5:11:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Freedom of speech does not cover assault and saying you are going to physically harm someone else is assault.

True but I'm not sure any of them said they were "going to." The list asked them who they'd LIKE to. No one ever asserted they were "going to." Now....having said that....what idiot would participate in such a survey? Wow.

luci

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 6:23:52 PM

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I think that is the part that bothers me the most, luci. These men are between 18 and 24... not high school

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/17/2011 6:34:38 PM

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quote:

Get a man drunk enough and he will give you the number to his ATM card, but that is theft.

That's why you get him to take the money out and hand it to you.

Geeze Loueeze, what do they teach you people down in Yankistan?

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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