RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child

RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 10:44:34 AM)
I agree but I do have valid reservations as I posted above... But it is not sad tazzy... Boys and girls are different... you could not provide the same experience with the satisfaction of the children when mixing both girl and boy likes and dislikes. Just as in the military there are limits to the mixing and jobs between gender. Again there is nothing wrong with an all boys or girls organizations... and there would be nothing wrong with a boy and girl organization...just get someone to organize one. The problem is despite your idea of what is fair there is not a demand for it. Butch

Kaliko -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 11:05:53 AM)
Oh, there are lots of groups for boys and girls, from the 4-H Club to the YMCA to the various after-school and community clubs all over. I feel I'm pointing out the obvious, of course, but there are differences between men and women. I don't see a problem with recognizing and appreciating those differences. Even if those differences are "I get my period, grow boobs, and have babies" and men...well...I don't know what men do, but I'm sure it results in cooties. :) But what I'm saying is, even if one argues all day about whether we think the same, etc, there are always going to be challenges and certain aspects of life that are specific to one gender or another. No matter what. It's not a bad thing to bond with one another in a healthy and supportive group setting and be able to grow up with that group and be able to commiserate together. It's also not a bad thing to do things together involving both boys and girls. It's a nice balance. Hopefully.

Kaliko -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 11:11:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama I did more camping with my mother than I did in the Girl Scouts. Many people do. And many people don't. I have several girls that have never once camped and we were able to provide that experience for them - several times. On the other hand, I have a few girls who already far surpass me in camping skills and dictated to me how they build a fire and what their favorite campsite cooking method is. Unfortunately, a lot depends on the troop leader. That I do wish was different, but there it is. As they get older, the girls dictate more what they want to do. (Truth? I wanted to go to an aquarium last spring - they chose camping. Sigh.)

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 11:19:46 AM)
poor kid.

tazzygirl -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 11:43:13 AM)
quote: I agree but I do have valid reservations as I posted above... But it is not sad tazzy... Boys and girls are different... you could not provide the same experience with the satisfaction of the children when mixing both girl and boy likes and dislikes. Just as in the military there are limits to the mixing and jobs between gender. The military is full of adults with the complications that come with having men and women together... not to mention the attitudes of having women on the front line. That has nothing to do with a 7 year old child, or the age group we are discussing. And it is sad that this attitude is even out there. What did those leaders teach those kids? Discrimination is perfectly ok if you believe in "god"?

kdsub -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 11:59:39 AM)
quote: That has nothing to do with a 7 year old child, or the age group we are discussing. No you are wrong tazzy... men and boys have more strength then girls and women ...same as the military.. it is not lack of bravery or mental ability but it does make a difference in strength... If i was wounded I would want someone who could fireman carry me to safety... same with personal combat...men are better like it or not. Will... the strength and mind set of boys is different and the military is a valid example and it would and does make a difference in the activities of the boy scouts…in general that is. Butch

searching4mysir -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 12:11:39 PM)
Additionally, scouting doesn't end with puberty. There are scouting things even into the college level (there is a sorority and a fraternity for alumni of both Girl and Boy Scouts). The scouts of today are not the scouts of my youth. When I was 7 and going to camp, the girls all changed their clothes in one room/tent (there was no place for shyness when putting on a swimsuit to jump in the lake). Now you are putting a biological boy into that mix and not expecting problems merely because that boy self-identifies as a girl? Do you really think that isn't going to be noticed by the other girls in the troop and be a problem?

tazzygirl -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 12:21:29 PM)
quote: There are scouting things even into the college level (there is a sorority and a fraternity for alumni of both Girl and Boy Scouts). They arent changing in the same rooms. quote: The scouts of today are not the scouts of my youth. When I was 7 and going to camp, the girls all changed their clothes in one room/tent (there was no place for shyness when putting on a swimsuit to jump in the lake). Now you are putting a biological boy into that mix and not expecting problems merely because that boy self-identifies as a girl? Do you really think that isn't going to be noticed by the other girls in the troop and be a problem? The counselors too? Mine certainly didnt. Children at 7 dont make things an issue unless the adults make things an issue.

GotSteel -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 12:27:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub If i was wounded I would want someone who could fireman carry me to safety... same with personal combat...men are better like it or not. Not the same as personal combat at all. Getting one's knot tying merit badge doesn't require greater upper body strength. The "I would want someone who could fireman carry me to safety" is a valid argument if we are talking about firemen but we're not we're talking about children who aren't going to be needing to fireman carry each other to safety because they have adult supervision.

kdsub -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 12:29:02 PM)
Don't you think however there would be a need to explain tazzy...come on kids 7 are not stupid...but are they ready to understand transgender. Who’s place is that… the Girl Scouts or parents… What if parents don’t thin k 7 is the right age for this explanation… Can’t you see the problems involved I think this poor child would be ridiculed by the girls and boys for that matter in this situation. Although I wish gender in this form did not make a difference it does in reality… It just may not be mentally healthy for this child to participate in the Girl Scouts and 7 may be to young to understand what the hell is going on. Butch

kdsub -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 12:30:54 PM)
My whole point was the difference in physical abilities that manifest itself in the military as well as the Scouts…As well as a difference in mind set in general.

tazzygirl -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 12:32:27 PM)
quote: No you are wrong tazzy... men and boys have more strength then girls and women ...same as the military.. it is not lack of bravery or mental ability but it does make a difference in strength... If i was wounded I would want someone who could fireman carry me to safety... same with personal combat...men are better like it or not. Oh I have seen that argument before. And I have seen women who can bench press a man. I have seen women who can fireman carry a man. I have also seen men who cant carry 100 lbs.

tazzygirl -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 12:36:45 PM)
quote: I think this poor child would be ridiculed by the girls and boys for that matter in this situation. Although I wish gender in this form did not make a difference it does in reality… It just may not be mentally healthy for this child to participate in the Girl Scouts and 7 may be to young to understand what the hell is going on. Butch Children arent as cruel as people make them out to be. Look at the history of racism in the south, yet children played together all the time. I think the attitude that.. You are different therefore you dont belong.. is cruel. Its no different than being gay, being black, being disabled.

orchid77 -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 12:46:21 PM)
The fact is the the mother said, " "I believe he was born in the wrong body," Archuleta, who also confessed to having difficulty switching from male to female pronouns when discussing her child, told ABC. "But the Girl Scout leader told us he can't join because he has 'boy parts.'... But no one would know he's a boy unless they pulled his pants down." She is pushing this for the drama. The child should be the only one making the decision whether they are a girl or boy. Not the parent. So the problem here is the parent. Secondly, the child still has a penis. Girl's Scouts often have protocols which means when they camp they put each girl with a girl partner. They go together to the rest room, to the shower, sleeping, and so forth. I would not feel comfortable having this boy washing in front of my girl. Imagine 4 years later the child is now 12 years old...and a penis in girls scout? People make absolutely no sense.

GotSteel -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 12:48:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub My whole point was the difference in physical abilities that manifest itself in the military as well as the Scouts…As well as a difference in mind set in general. As someone who just hiked 2,181 miles with his girlfriend and a whole bunch of other women one of whom was hiking on crutches I don't accept that. I can tell you that camping and hiking require very little upper body strength to the point that I lost a huge amount of my upper body this year.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 12:54:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: That has nothing to do with a 7 year old child, or the age group we are discussing. No you are wrong tazzy... men and boys have more strength then girls and women ...same as the military.. it is not lack of bravery or mental ability but it does make a difference in strength... If i was wounded I would want someone who could fireman carry me to safety... same with personal combat...men are better like it or not. Will... the strength and mind set of boys is different and the military is a valid example and it would and does make a difference in the activities of the boy scouts…in general that is. Butch Anyone who purports their are no gender differences when study after study show that many preferences/aptitudes are gender related is just trying to deny biology. What else do you expect from someone who thinks that sperm have less rights than eggs.

GotSteel -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 1:13:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Anyone who purports their are no gender differences when study after study show that many preferences/aptitudes are gender related is just trying to deny biology. What else do you expect from someone who thinks that sperm have less rights than eggs. Certainly there are gender differences Jill has a hoohoo Jack has a haha, the questions are what are those gender differences, how will they effect ones ability to be in Girl/Boy Scouts and/or ones ability to be in the hypothetical Girl-Boy Scouts. Since being able to perform a fireman carry isn't a requirement to be a Girl Scout or a Boy Scout I reject that as a valid reason to keep them separate. I also propose that the reason for the lack of co-ed in these organizations isn't really because of girls and boys being into different things but out of fear that the haha is going to end up in the hoohoo.

orchid77 -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 1:18:08 PM)
Here here GotSteel! Well said.

tazzygirl -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 1:22:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Anyone who purports their are no gender differences when study after study show that many preferences/aptitudes are gender related is just trying to deny biology. What else do you expect from someone who thinks that sperm have less rights than eggs. Certainly there are gender differences Jill has a hoohoo Jack has a haha, the questions are what are those gender differences, how will they effect ones ability to be in Girl/Boy Scouts and/or ones ability to be in the hypothetical Girl-Boy Scouts. Since being able to perform a fireman carry isn't a requirement to be a Girl Scout or a Boy Scout I reject that as a valid reason to keep them separate. I also propose that the reason for the lack of co-ed in these organizations isn't really because of girls and boys being into different things but out of fear that the haha is going to end up in the hoohoo. Well said, GS.

InvisibleBlack -> RE: Girl Scout troops disband over admittance of transgender child (12/23/2011 1:54:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Anyone who purports their are no gender differences when study after study show that many preferences/aptitudes are gender related is just trying to deny biology. What else do you expect from someone who thinks that sperm have less rights than eggs. Certainly there are gender differences Jill has a hoohoo Jack has a haha, the questions are what are those gender differences, how will they effect ones ability to be in Girl/Boy Scouts and/or ones ability to be in the hypothetical Girl-Boy Scouts. Since being able to perform a fireman carry isn't a requirement to be a Girl Scout or a Boy Scout I reject that as a valid reason to keep them separate. I also propose that the reason for the lack of co-ed in these organizations isn't really because of girls and boys being into different things but out of fear that the haha is going to end up in the hoohoo. Actually, I believe that is exactly the reason and since the Girl Scouts run to age 17 (I think) the concomittant issue of how some Girl Scout troop went on a seven day "all girl" hike in the wilderness and someone's daughter came back pregnant. [Edited: Typos.]

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