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RE: Sir or Master - 1/21/2012 6:58:47 PM   
BurntKitty


Posts: 3340
Joined: 9/7/2010
From: Here To Eternity.
Status: offline 		I call my sweetie by his first name, he calls me by my name. In my local scene, I'm Kitty.

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RE: Sir or Master - 1/21/2012 6:59:18 PM   
poise


Posts: 9509
Joined: 7/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

I have my girl address me as Lord God Almighty.

But only when we are in public.

In more informal settings "WonderSchlong" is acceptable.


I bet that's awfully hard to say with a full mouth!
* poor Kim *

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RE: Sir or Master - 1/21/2012 7:02:59 PM   
Ninebelowzero


Posts: 3134
Joined: 8/5/2011
Status: offline 		I got to admit that calling someone Ma'am carries a certain sexual charge. Goddess makes me piss myself with laughter.

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RE: Sir or Master - 1/21/2012 7:08:13 PM   
NyxPontia


Posts: 224
Joined: 1/8/2012
Status: offline 		I was called a Goddess by someone I tried role reversal with. He picked the name. I couldn't take it seriously, I spent the whole time laughing and blushing. Two weeks later, we dropped it. I'm surprised, looking back, that it took that long.

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RE: Sir or Master - 1/21/2012 7:16:09 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I call the man who owns me either Master or Sir depending on his and/or my mood, situations, etc...

Anyone in bdsm I call them by their name unless Master says otherwise.

Anyone in the "vanilla" world I call them Sir, Ma'am, Mr, Mrs, Ms or simply their name, depending on situation, place, customer, client, co-worker, relations, etc...unless again, Master says otherwise.

We don't follow some kind of "bdsm protocol" or "rules". It's just whatever our situation is with that person and what they feel comfortable with.

ETA: Master calls me whatever he wants depending where we're at and who is around...could be my name, my screenname, cunt, slut, slave, it,angel, mouse, baby, etc....



< Message edited by littlewonder -- 1/21/2012 7:18:21 PM >

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RE: Sir or Master - 1/21/2012 7:31:50 PM   
RexDarcy


Posts: 597
Joined: 6/23/2010
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I dislike being called Sir. I prefer being addressed by My first name. In private or certain group settings, being called Master is fine if I am in a relationship.

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RE: Sir or Master - 1/21/2012 8:28:35 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Do subs/slaves prefer to use the word Master or Sir?


Sir is my father, anyone of his age group, anyone older or anyone male paying a check in a restaurant that I am working in.

I call the man by his name, as is his preference. Some men I do call "Master" but in the gorean sense... the rest by their given names. Its only confusing to people who do not know me.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Sir or Master - 1/21/2012 10:15:11 PM   
peppermint


Posts: 5159
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: orimotis69


1. Do subs/slaves prefer to use the word Master or Sir?

2. What is your opinion on some people in the BDSM community using titles?


1.  In general I have no preference.  If a person's scene name is SirX, I have no problem calling him SirX when I am at a kink event.  The same goes for Master although I have only met one person who did have Master in his scene name.  If he is at my home then he is a good enough friend to be called by his first name when he's visiting.  I call my own Dom sweetheart or Gary.  The only time I will use Sir while talking to Gary is when answering "Yes, Sir. or No, Sir."  This comes from spending 25 years working on military bases. 


2.  People can use whatever scene names they choose.  It's not up to me to police names and decide which ones are proper or improper. 

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Sir or Master - 1/21/2012 10:43:09 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		It's actually been a while since we've done this one.

I'm not sure if I understand the hang up association with Sir for you being connected to the after school kids calling you Mr <first name> rather than Mr <last name>.  You don't have to explain it if you don't want to.  I'm just mentioning that it isn't especially clear.  If nothing else, it might help you to realize that back then, you were dealing with kids.  Now, you are dealing with adults in grown up relationships.

Yes.  Different terms get used for different types of dynamics.  The same term might be used in different ways in different cultures.  Levels of protocol can have an influence, too.

1.  Any sub of Mine will do as they are directed.  If we're at a high protocol event, he absolutely will adhere to the standard.  Anybody who the situation requires that "Master" be used, it does get used with a qualifying name.  The very same person that we see at another location, it can vary.  Should this person be someone that I don't have any respect for, it's not a requirement.

In the dynamic, it can depend.  When I first got clip, I had decided on M'Lady.  As we had more time in the dynamic, it became Mistress. 

2.  When it comes to Master, the way I see it is that anybody using it had better fit into one of three categories:

A leather person who has earned their old leather.

A Gorean Free Man

A person in a dynamic with a slave (or by a stretch a prior slave) who calls that person that title.

Just about anybody else, I'll be polite, but I'm not going to have a great first impression.


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Sir or Master - 1/21/2012 11:21:38 PM   
RaspberryLemon


Posts: 422
Joined: 7/18/2011
Status: offline 		1.) I use both "Master" and "sir" for my Master. "Master" is his official "title" in reference to me, you could say. He is my Master, my owner; that is who he is to me. I use the term "Master" fairly often when speaking to him, however it's just as common for me as using his first name, last name, or a nickname. I use "sir" when answering yes-or-no questions or responding to commands/orders from him. I don't use these titles in reference to other people (unless under the context of "so-and-so's master" or a more generic "masters"(referring to people who own other people.)) I won't be calling anyone "Master" or "Master so-and-so" because that is not who they are to me--they may own somebody else but it is not me and thus to me they are on the same level as any other person I know (I will call them by their name or a nickname, whatever they prefer.)

2.) I have no opinion on how other people choose to use titles because I'm not really a part of "the BDSM community." The only title-related concerns I have pertain to my own relationship. Thus, the only concern I have with other people using titles is if they were to use certain titles in reference to my Master or me. For instance, some other submissive calling him "Master" would bother me because he is NOT their Master. He is my Master. To me, that would seem like they are implying a relationship with him that isn't there (his title of "Master" comes entirely from the fact that he is owner and master to me.) So I would feel pretty offended if other people used the title for him specifically in any other way than "so-and-so's Master."

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Sir or Master - 1/21/2012 11:38:38 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		I am steadfast in my persistence about correct labels and definitions, I couldn't resist replying. 

"Sir" has always been a universally acceptable form of address for me.  It goes over well in both vanilla and BDSM crowds.  As others have said, it's not just a bdsm thing, it's a point of good manners and polite address.  My very nature and mannerisms inspire vanilla strangers to call me sir.  

Sir is not the title of a knight or baronet except when used as a such in conjunction with their name, like; "Sir Orimotis."  So when you simply address someone as sir, by definition it means "gentleman".  I am a gentleman, so I am very comfortable being addressed politely. 

If a dominant is uncomfortable being addressed politely and with respect, perhaps they need to examine their understanding of the the language?  If they understand the terms of respect and are uncomfortable being addressed in their station, a position of power , perhaps they need to reexamine their role?

If a submissive is uncomfortable using common polite terms of address and titles, or thinks being polite and respectful is something someone has to earn, then it reflects on their general state of ill manners and shitty disposition.  If they are intent on paying respect in trade for a someone's behavior, like being polite was a reward for something... well, that's called training, not submission. 

The title "Master" is not possessive.  He isn't "your" Master, you don't own him.  He owns you or someone else.  When ever I hear someone use the term "my Master", I know they don't have a clue.  Whether it is Master Orimotis in the BDSM world or Master Wu-ping the karate expert in the vanilla world, it is polite to call them by their title whether or not Master Orimotis is your owner or Master Wu-ping is your sensei.

Using titles - Would you refuse to acknowledge the Queen of England as a queen because she is not your queen?  What kind of pretzel logic can justify being rude to anyone in any lifestyle that has any title?

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 1/21/2012 11:42:18 PM >

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RE: Sir or Master - 1/21/2012 11:58:34 PM   
RaspberryLemon


Posts: 422
Joined: 7/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
The title "Master" is not possessive.  He isn't "your" Master, you don't own him.  He owns you or someone else.  When ever I hear someone use the term "my Master", I know they don't have a clue.  Whether it is Master Orimotis in the BDSM world or Master Wu-ping the karate expert in the vanilla world, it is polite to call them by their title whether or not Master Orimotis is your owner or Master Wu-ping is your sensei.

Using titles - Would you refuse to acknowledge the Queen of England as a queen because she is not your queen?  What kind of pretzel logic can justify being rude to anyone in any lifestyle that has any title?

I disagree. He is "my Master" because he is the master that owns me. Of course I don't own him. I recall this same argument being had in a different thread relatively recently. You can say "my mother" without meaning that you own her. Of course you don't. It simply means that she is the mother that birthed you. So yes, he is my Master. In this context the word "my" implies relation, NOT possession. That being said, it's of course up to the individuals in a relationship to decide whether or not this is an acceptable way of saying/viewing this--and my Master has absolutely no problem being referred to as "my Master" by me, and he agrees with the way I view it. As such, I don't think it's fair to say that I "don't have a clue" because my behavior and speech is up to him to decide whether or not it's appropriate or correct. I have a clue as to how my relationship works, and as I stated above, that's really the only thing that matters. There isn't a universal "correct way" to use titles--different people use them differently as to how they see fit, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

On the subject of "Queen of England." No, of course I would not refuse to call her "Queen so-and-so." She's not my queen, but a queen nonetheless and thus I don't have a problem with using the title. I see this as entirely different from the "Master" issue because the title of "queen" is not incredibly personal/intimate to me. Same thing in the example of "Master Wu-ping"--yes, the word "Master" is used, but in a different context and thus I have no problem referring to them as such. With "Master" in a D/s or M/s relationship context, only ONE person has title to me. It's personal and intimate, and thus I will not use it in reference to other people because they don't have that relation to me. (Though, as I said in my previous post, I don't have a problem using it in reference to others in reference to their ownership of another--"so-and-so's Master," etc.)

As for "sir" and "ma'am, I don't have a problem using these as general terms of respect. They don't necessarily imply any specific relation.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Sir or Master - 1/22/2012 12:16:59 AM   
Epytropos


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline 		Honorifics are complex. They mean something different to everyone, and while there are "correct" definitions of each as RS touches on, they are in such disuse that attempting to use them properly will often lead to confusion in many circles. I used to be in the habit of using "sir" in conversation with my equals (such as they are) but it became tiresome to explain it so I've refrained.

For my bit, I let subs in the general population refer to me however they like (within reason, of course - I'll likely not respond to "cockmuffin" more than once or twice lol) with the exception that no one calls me Master without permission. All things being equal, I respond well to subs who use Sir on first contact, but I by no means demand it. It strikes me as a sign of natural submission and/or decent breeding, both of which I hold in high regard. So long as people show basic respect and comport themselves with dignity I'm quite flexible.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Sir or Master - 1/22/2012 1:31:31 AM   
NyxPontia


Posts: 224
Joined: 1/8/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RaspberryLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
The title "Master" is not possessive.  He isn't "your" Master, you don't own him.  He owns you or someone else.  When ever I hear someone use the term "my Master", I know they don't have a clue.  Whether it is Master Orimotis in the BDSM world or Master Wu-ping the karate expert in the vanilla world, it is polite to call them by their title whether or not Master Orimotis is your owner or Master Wu-ping is your sensei.

Using titles - Would you refuse to acknowledge the Queen of England as a queen because she is not your queen?  What kind of pretzel logic can justify being rude to anyone in any lifestyle that has any title?

I disagree. He is "my Master" because he is the master that owns me. Of course I don't own him. I recall this same argument being had in a different thread relatively recently. You can say "my mother" without meaning that you own her. Of course you don't. It simply means that she is the mother that birthed you. So yes, he is my Master. In this context the word "my" implies relation, NOT possession. That being said, it's of course up to the individuals in a relationship to decide whether or not this is an acceptable way of saying/viewing this--and my Master has absolutely no problem being referred to as "my Master" by me, and he agrees with the way I view it. As such, I don't think it's fair to say that I "don't have a clue" because my behavior and speech is up to him to decide whether or not it's appropriate or correct. I have a clue as to how my relationship works, and as I stated above, that's really the only thing that matters. There isn't a universal "correct way" to use titles--different people use them differently as to how they see fit, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.






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"Bleeding Is Believing, Bleeding Is Breathing." Natalie Imbruglia

A slave without a collar is just the mammal form of a chicken with it's head cut off.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Sir or Master - 1/22/2012 1:41:30 AM   
LongFellow4U


Posts: 1
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Detroit, Mi. USA 48122
Status: offline 		First of all, I can til you have no true training as to what this lifestyle is about.

Every one starts as Submissive or as a Dominate under a mentor or trainer.

As a submissive train under a Mentor or a Master/Mistress.
when you have enough trust in your trainer you can be raised to the level of a slave.

As a Dominate you are trained to become a Mistress, if you are a woman and/or as a Master if you are a man.
Again when your training has brought you to the level of knowledge of how to use the equipment of out trade.

It is your Mentor or Trainer who tills you when you can be called a Master or a Mistress.

What happens is new people who fine this lifestyle, Name them self with out any training and end up hurting others by there like of knowledge. and here is where we get the title of New bee's or want to bee's



So every one who is living this life style and has never trained under a Mentor, needs to do so, no matter if you have been a so called master or mistress for a long time. you still need to learn from the old school Master's and Mistress's


NOTE: NO CAP'S are used for a untrained master or mistress. only after they are trained do they get the Cap's on the titles

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Sir or Master - 1/22/2012 1:50:43 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		I work in a school. In front of the students we address staff members as 'Sir' or 'Miss'. Master was in the army and is used to referring to people as 'Sir' or 'Ma'am'.

For both of us the word 'Sir' has lost its significance. When we began this relationship and discovered (to the surprise of both of us) that I was slave material, I refer to him as Master.

To start with it felt a little odd, but after more than a year it has actually turned into a term of endearment. I'm not the uber-romantic kind who calls people 'darling' or 'sugar', but Master said in the right tone can be just as loving

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Sir or Master - 1/22/2012 1:54:23 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		Perhaps my age is showing.  It always rubs me the wrong way when I see the roots of BDSM fall into disuse.  Protocols respecting rank were at the heart of BDSM in its birth.  I'm sure you all know the old leathermen story about the military being the first homosexual experiences for many men and they took that military discipline (as in the D in BDSM) to heart when they took up leather upon their return home. 

So to me and many others familiar with the origins of BDSM, a large part of the D in BDSM stands for the discipline of rank and order which is displayed through protocols.  Those protocols involve addressing people of rank and station with respect and by their titles.  If you can't do that, you aren't into BDSM where I come from.  To me, seeing those protocols fall into disuse seems to fly in the face of what BDSM is.  It's like rewriting the constitution, many will be resistant to it.   

quote:

ORIGINAL: Epytropos
Honorifics are complex. They mean something different to everyone, and while there are "correct" definitions of each as RS touches on, they are in such disuse that attempting to use them properly will often lead to confusion in many circles. I used to be in the habit of using "sir" in conversation with my equals (such as they are) but it became tiresome to explain it so I've refrained.

For my bit, I let subs in the general population refer to me however they like (within reason, of course - I'll likely not respond to "cockmuffin" more than once or twice lol) with the exception that no one calls me Master without permission. All things being equal, I respond well to subs who use Sir on first contact, but I by no means demand it. It strikes me as a sign of natural submission and/or decent breeding, both of which I hold in high regard. So long as people show basic respect and comport themselves with dignity I'm quite flexible.

[edit: type-o]

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 1/22/2012 2:27:36 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Sir or Master - 1/22/2012 2:34:47 AM   
Darkfeather


Posts: 1142
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline 		You have to remember, there are two types of protocols, public and private. It seems this discussion is mixing the two, as the lifestyle of old used to be way more "formal" in social gatherings. It was needed as those gatherings were a bit more secretive, as the BDSM interests were not as accepted by the general public as they are today. But I have to agree for the most part that interactive protocols default to what the dominant finds comfortable, there is no rule that can tell you what are supposed to like or not like in this. In private, you can be called whatever you want to be

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Sir or Master - 1/22/2012 3:44:07 AM   
fragilepieces


Posts: 416
Joined: 7/6/2008
Status: offline 		I use neither term unless I am joking like an exasperated, "YES SIR" huge sigh and a smile---personally I think the title things sort of suck--even the submissive ones like little one---pet---(cringe) I call my partner by his given name or my personal pet name for him.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Sir or Master - 1/22/2012 3:46:44 AM   
fragilepieces


Posts: 416
Joined: 7/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Well, to start with, Master is kind of used as meaning more, as in that person has perhaps more time in the lifestyle, more experience, or more knowledge in an area. So it's kind like you start out as a Sir, and then grow into being a Master. There is also the distinction of Master/slave, or Sir/submissive - it kind of denotes what type of BDSM relationship you have.
Damn it 20 plus years doing this and I am just hearing this NOW?

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Him: I love you BECAUSE you ARE a weirdo.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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