Mental health of a sub (Full Version)

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ykmsteven -> Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 6:19:19 AM)

I'd be interested to know what people perceive their reasons are for being submissive - AND what that does to your mental health.

(please note, I'm not whinging, moaning, feeling sorry for myself, I'm quite happy as I am, just discovering and understanding things)

For me living a life very distant from my young mother and step father from a very young age, always doing my own thing, getting upto mischief, the only association I had with my parents was when I was being punished or told off for something.   I also feel as I was had so young that I'm almost an unwanted therefore always critisised as a child (which makes you sarcastic)

So I believe I associated a loving interaction with people is when I'm abused, humiliated, punished etc.  Which for me is raised when a sexual aspect is thrown in.  We I do, I can only have 'normal' / 'loving' (looking for the right phrase but you know what I mean) with someone who is also dominant at other times, other wise it just doesn't do it for me.

SO as well as knowing where you think your submissive nature is drawn from, I would also love to hear what you think it does for your long term mental health - does it depend on the dom.   Recently I was involved in someone but its full on, being kept down, told worthless, humilated, used for sex, orgasm denial...which is great at the time but I often wonder if it interferes with my normal life and what effect being constant kept down will have on my self esteem, confidence etc.  (wrong dom?)

Interested to see replies. 
[8|]




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 6:25:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ykmsteven
I'd be interested to know what people perceive there reasons are for being submissive 

http://www.collarchat.com/m_370183/mpage_1/key_submissive/tm.htm#370183
Submissive conflicts/contradictions

http://www.collarchat.com/m_241762/mpage_1/key_slave/tm.htm#241969
Why be a slave

quote:

 AND what that does to your mental health.

Nothing.

quote:

SO as well as knowing where you think your submissive nature is drawn from, I would also love to hear what you think it does for your long term mental health - does it depend on the dom.   Recently I was involved in someone but its full on, being kept down, told worthless, humilated, used for sex, orgasm denial...which is great at the time but I often wonder if it interferes with my normal life and what effect being constant kept down will have on my self esteem, confidence etc.  (wrong dom?)

Interested to see replies. 

As someone who is into intense humiliation objectification and degradation, I have to say that as long as it comes from a place of security and fulfillment, as long as you have a strong commitment to eachother based on mutual respect and understanding- go for it.



mistoferin -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 6:26:18 AM)

I feel very strongly that people need to resolve their past and get themselves in an emotionally healthy position BEFORE they get into relationships....lifestyle or otherwise.

We just had an interesting discussion on it that have some differing viewpoints....you may be interested in checking it out. Here is the link:

http://www.collarchat.com/The_dichotomy_between_mental_health_%26_the_lifestyle/m_384896/tm.htm



NCSilverWolves -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 6:49:48 AM)

I've been informed my submission comes from with in me. Not something that has happened to me from my childhood. I had a  happy non abussive childhood.  I've been in a few short lived abussive relationships. Short lived stated because it only takes 1 time. Try to abuse me and if you make it out alive... there's no 2nd chance.

Some love the humiliation, being kept down, told they're worthless...etc... not me. My self respect and state of mind refuses to allow me to enjoy that life on a full time basis. Don't like it during play either though i've been made to go through it. But knowing it's just words in a scene and actions that won't continue once done. I can tolerate it more and not make it a hard limit.

I can't tell someone if they're with right and or wrong dominant. Everyone likes different cups of tea. Have different types  of taste. Need to live a certain way. All because I won't live certain ways.. doesn't mean someone out there doesn't live for it. Now just because some feel...that someone has to live that way ...they  have mental issues.. mental problems... I don't always agree with. Specially with limited information on a forum. I'm not there and I don't know the whole situation. (This being pointed out on this forum to me before in another thread on close subject)

And sometimes the information given on a forum screams of help..pity... when it's offered... the responders are condemned. Flamed for trying to show support...advice on getting out of situation. Only to be told by OP they don't want out... or the dominat one comes on flaming the responders for interfering when all they did was respond to the OP.

Good luck on deciding what's best for you and yours.





darkinshadows -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 7:04:49 AM)

I believe my mental health does not have anything to do with my submission.
I submit when my submission responds to the dominance of someone who I trust and am attracted to.  It is a natural response, not something I can control or look for.
 
As a child, I gre up in a stable home, with loving parents who are still alive and together today.  My grandmother was a positive influence who taught me that I should be proud of who and what I was to become, whatever that was.  She would be so proud of me if she was alive today to see how I am now, and that is a wonderful thought.
 
I have never been abused, bullied nor intimidated as a child, teen nor adult.
 
So there goes that theory for me.  But do what makes you happy - as long as you are self aware.
Peace and Rapture



thetammyjo -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 9:19:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ykmsteven

I'd be interested to know what people perceive their reasons are for being submissive - AND what that does to your mental health.

(please note, I'm not whinging, moaning, feeling sorry for myself, I'm quite happy as I am, just discovering and understanding things)

For me living a life very distant from my young mother and step father from a very young age, always doing my own thing, getting upto mischief, the only association I had with my parents was when I was being punished or told off for something. I also feel as I was had so young that I'm almost an unwanted therefore always critisised as a child (which makes you sarcastic)

So I believe I associated a loving interaction with people is when I'm abused, humiliated, punished etc. Which for me is raised when a sexual aspect is thrown in. We I do, I can only have 'normal' / 'loving' (looking for the right phrase but you know what I mean) with someone who is also dominant at other times, other wise it just doesn't do it for me.

SO as well as knowing where you think your submissive nature is drawn from, I would also love to hear what you think it does for your long term mental health - does it depend on the dom. Recently I was involved in someone but its full on, being kept down, told worthless, humilated, used for sex, orgasm denial...which is great at the time but I often wonder if it interferes with my normal life and what effect being constant kept down will have on my self esteem, confidence etc. (wrong dom?)

Interested to see replies.
[8|]




I think that healthy feelings of submissiveness or dominance should come from a place of strength in oneself and not a place of making up for the past or being limited by the past.

I'm going to be really personal here and suggest, ykmsteven, that you might want to try and find a good therapist to listen to your questions. I don't think they have as much to do with BDSM as they do with your childhood. I doubt that we can change our sexual orientation but how we pursue it and in what ways can be healthier if we learn more about ourselves.

It isn't something you'll do in like a week, a month, or even a year. It will be a life journey. I'm on it, it is well worth it.



zumala -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 9:31:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ykmsteven

I'd be interested to know what people perceive their reasons are for being submissive - AND what that does to your mental health.

My reason for being submissive... is that I just am, I guess.  I'm not a doormat.  I stand for what I believe in.  I like to give my opinion.  But I must admit that my self-confidence is low enough that you have to dig for it to find it.  When learning something new, I repeatedly check to make sure I'm doing it right.  I'm anal about wanting to do things perfectly.  I am afraid of ridicule (When I think it's earned.  You can attack with without basis and I'll tell you where to shove it.)  The fear of failure does in fact cause me to fail sometimes.  I had a concrete example of this last week.  But I don't think my lack of self-esteem is what makes me submissive.

For me living a life very distant from my young mother and step father from a very young age, always doing my own thing, getting upto mischief, the only association I had with my parents was when I was being punished or told off for something.   I also feel as I was had so young that I'm almost an unwanted therefore always critisised as a child (which makes you sarcastic)

My parents weren't what you could call abusive.  Mom's temper was a little short sometimes, but she wasn't afraid to apologize when she realized she was wrong.  Something that did kill my self-confidence was the move to Texas when I was a kid.  I went from alpha leader of my 'group' in elementary school to the 'not rich and snobby' underdog in middle school in one giant leap mid-year.  It wasn't pretty.



zuma



NikkiAnn -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 11:00:28 AM)

      For me when I release control of my self to another it is a gift to that person. It is a sign that I trust them completely. I love to please. I get much pleasure personaly when I can please some one. Growing up with the feeling I was a girl, when the rest of the world said I was a boy led to some pretty low self-esteem. I thought my submissiveness was a result of those feelings. I have worked through that low self-esteem in therapy but surprisingly my submissive feelings and my need to please others are stronger than ever. Only recently have I been exploring my submissive side and also found I was masochistic. I don't think either of these things really had anything to do with my childhood or my TS feelings. I really believe I was born with this just the way some people have brown eyes or are left handed.

   Nikki Ann



MasterMoody -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 12:36:19 PM)

i won't know but my subs tell me it is what they need and want and it makes them happy to serve me



JassWolf -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 12:46:35 PM)

Mental health and submission (or dominance, or switching) are simply different things.

Certainly, for some people, the acts they perform and their beliefs can be symptomatic of some disorder ... but so can sky-diving or atheism or an intense obsession with cotton balls.

But to say there is a connection between the two seems to me to be simplistic and judgmental, both of submission and of the person ... There are a lot of folk who believe kink is "sick" ... too easy to get caught up in that, imo, if it's left as an abstraction. But in the concrete, certainly someone could be submissive and/or masochistic and/or addicted to creamed corn during sex and have it be a part of their dysfunctional neuroses.

Or so I think.

JW



BrattyBottomRN -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 12:49:29 PM)

This is totally an interesting topic!

Let me start by saying I have bipolar disorder.

Having said that, I find that in my vanilla life I tend to get kinda unruly and out of control.  Being topped kinda keeps me in line.  It fulfills me in a way I can't get from anything else.  I'm very autonomous, kind of an alpha female, very independant and kind of a bitch in my vanilla life, and I feel like being topped keeps me from getting too out of control.

It just makes me totally feel connected to another person like no other way.  Let me say though, my Master isn't totally sadistic all the time.  He can be a very loving and praising Master too when i've been a good girl.

kylie



sharainks -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 3:05:56 PM)

I don't think wanting to submit to another necessarily is any different than wanting to dominate someone.  However, it does seem that the assumption often is that something is "inherently" wrong with someone who willingly gives up control to another.  I don't think either side of this has anything, in general, to do with mental health. 

Are there mentally ill people in the lifestyle?  If statistics bear out then one would assume that the same statistics apply inside the lifestyle as within the vanilla world. 



Sunshine119 -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 3:39:03 PM)

My submission is simply my act of being.  My job, while demanding and authoritative, is done for the benefit of others and to take care of those who can not care for themselves. I have always found myself in services to others.  It wasn't until I met my Dominant that I began to understand that is an integral part of me.  Think of all the people in "helping" professions.  They are professional submissives....just not sexual ones.

Now, on the other hand, if one were to try and correlate the percentage of mentally ill inside and outside this lifestyle, I think the numbers would come up very similiar.  If statistics are right, one in five people will be able to be considered "seriously mentally ill" at some point in their lifetime.  I doubt the number is higher here.




juliaoceania -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 3:53:30 PM)

I'd be interested to know what people perceive their reasons are for being submissive - AND what that does to your mental health.

Since I think of myself as always being a submissive I do not know how I can separate a "before" and "after" aspect to it.

So I believe I associated a loving interaction with people is when I'm abused, humiliated, punished etc.  Which for me is raised when a sexual aspect is thrown in.  We I do, I can only have 'normal' / 'loving' (looking for the right phrase but you know what I mean) with someone who is also dominant at other times, other wise it just doesn't do it for me.

Many submissives have little desire or no desire to be humiliated in any way, these are not synonomous with submissiveness. It is not a favorite kink for me for example. A lot of vanilla people enjoy being called names sexually also. I enjoy it on ocassion but fail to see a connection between this and my submissive nature

Personally I think a dom can be abusive just as a vanilla man can be abusive. If someone is abusing you then you should get out. Abusers use the lifestyle as a mask for abuse, and I do not see it as intrisically more abusive than anything else.

I have has unpleasant things happen to me before and after I discovered my submissiveness as a trait that had always been a part of me. I will say that the difference between now and then is that I realized I was trying to be submissive to vanilla men because this is how I love, and they did not know what to do with the way I love. It has actually helped me to improve my self esteem to realize it was not anything wrong with me that these relationships did not work on reflection.. It was that they did not know how to accept what I had to give, and they may have been submissively inclined themselves.

If anyone, be it a dom or other person., hurts your self esteem  I would end it and spend some time building myself up again. You deserve only that which you will tolerate. If someone doesn't add to my life, then they are not in it.. But that is me, and I could be wrong




genvieve -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 4:53:58 PM)

i always like to say that submission has absolutely nothing to do with the Dominant.  Now before You Dominants get all bent out of shape, i also say that Dominance has nothing to do with the submissive either.
 
submission is a way of viewing life, a way of addressing the world.  It is the constant desire to slip into the caretaking, serving role.  Since i am not only submissive to my Dominant, my security as a submissive is not attatched to my Dominant.  Does it still hurt when the relationship breaks off?  Bien sur!  Is my identity shaken just a bit when that happens?  Of course! 
 
But a submissive who attatches her self-worth to the Dominant she's attatched to... is on the whole, asking for a lot of heartache...and will undoubtedly end up leaving the lifestyle and coming back to it frequently.
 
i hope that helps to answer the question.
 
-genvieve



Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 8:32:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

I believe my mental health does not have anything to do with my submission.
I submit when my submission responds to the dominance of someone who I trust and am attracted to.  It is a natural response, not something I can control or look for.
 
As a child, I gre up in a stable home, with loving parents who are still alive and together today. 
 
Well, this pretty much sums it up for me, as well. I actually suspect it's somewhat genetic in my case, since I share so many traits with my father, and he's submissive to my mom. I have a sister who is submissive to her husband as well.



Dustyn -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/1/2006 9:47:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrattyBottomRN

This is totally an interesting topic!

Let me start by saying I have bipolar disorder.

Having said that, I find that in my vanilla life I tend to get kinda unruly and out of control.  Being topped kinda keeps me in line.  It fulfills me in a way I can't get from anything else.  I'm very autonomous, kind of an alpha female, very independant and kind of a bitch in my vanilla life, and I feel like being topped keeps me from getting too out of control.

It just makes me totally feel connected to another person like no other way.  Let me say though, my Master isn't totally sadistic all the time.  He can be a very loving and praising Master too when i've been a good girl.

kylie


While I have only found one person that I will always bend my knee to, I do know some of what you are talking about, in terms of a mental glitch in the programming.  I'm a diagnosed manic depressive, with a few other minor problems that just make life interesting at times.

My mental health is not dependant on the lifestyle, but it is impacted by it, as it is impacted by every other relationship in my life.  Some impacts are devastating while others are truly empowering.  It's one of the few feasrs I have these days.

"Will this person be a danger to what little grasp I have on sanity?"

Some have been no danger, but instead an armor against those that destroy it, either by design or by indifference.  My submission or dominance is not dependant on anything other than my own personal choice.  The depth of it, or the strength depending on your viewpoint, however, is directly linked to the stability and strength of my grasp.

But that is just me.



Padriag -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/2/2006 12:06:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: genvieve

i always like to say that submission has absolutely nothing to do with the Dominant.  Now before You Dominants get all bent out of shape, i also say that Dominance has nothing to do with the submissive either.
 

Bent out of shape... not at all.  That's one of the healthiest perspectives on being submissive I've heard out of a submissive in awhile!  Please go to the head of the class. [;)]



understud -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/2/2006 1:10:06 AM)

My reasons for believing I am submissive.  Humm; I always wanted to give more than I ever received; even as a child. If someone gave me  a kind word, attention, or a toy, I just could not do enough for them...excessively so. I always wanted to help people, to care for them.  In the vanilla world this drew strange looks and vile gossip...For years lived a lie believing something was wrong with me.  Only of late have I found the courage to live as I am, submissive; and damn proud of it.  Pain or punishment really has little to do with it as far as I am concerned.  It is a part of the lifestyle and I accept that.  I want to love and give wholly, totally and unashamedly. As a submissive I have found at last a venue that will allow me to express my gift of unqualified giving and love.
Again I speak for only myself . Pain, punishment, humiliation or any other aspect of this life is not the driving force for yours truly. It is part en parcel though and I accept that fact as a possibility only. A part of the life only; not the life in total.  That said, the possibility if a little discipline does add spice to my relationship...best wishes and bright tomorrows; may you find that which you truly seek. 
 
submitted respectfully
 
always respectful
 
understud



leakylee -> RE: Mental health of a sub (6/2/2006 1:50:26 AM)

Thank You, Thank you! BrattyBottomRN and Dusty. I am bi-polar too. Well sometimes they say the manic-depressive, all depends on which shrink you ask, but it doesnt have a bloody thing to do with my submission. My childhood was not the most pleasant thing, but that doesnt really affect it either. I have been trying to take care of someone from the get go. The desire to please just screams out sometimes. My submission just lets be me. It is a natural state.

Edited to add gush.. I have been open about this bit quirk of mine here than I generally am. I dont know why. Maybe because no one has done the, oh my god you are crazy, thing. After 15 years that is pretty nice. Thank you..

love and light
lee



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