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RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/28/2012 7:20:37 AM   
wolf223


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jessymarieh

Hi there,

I just wanted to share my situation and see if any of you have been in a similar situation.

I have been together with my Master for 3 years now, we live together and are usually very happy! Have known him 8 years so we are very close. I just feel like recently he wants me to be something else. For example he wants me to lose some weight. I am not fat, I go running 3 or 4 times a week and eat well! So I joined weight watchers and have stuck to it for 2 months with only 2lb loss. I am human at the end of the day and the fact that he doesn't like how I look is making me upset and my confidence is at an all time low.
I have talked to him about it and he said not to get upset about it.
He is also annoyed at me because time and time again I refuse to get a tattoo. I told him this when we first met, and I will never change my mind. He always wants me to turn down a promotion at work, which is a 6.5k pay increase.

It is just getting to much to handle now, I just feel like I love him, but will never be what he wants me to be.
Maybe he just wants me to be a skinny girl, that always says yes, and stays at home all day.

I think we need to sit down and talk about what we want.





Let us take another look here.
1 Loose weight = 2lbs Check
2 Tattoo = Hard limit Check
3 Turn down raise = The job is her's to handle as she sees fit.
6.5k turned down = too stupid to even be responded too = Check

See real easy

(in reply to Jessymarieh)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/28/2012 7:56:18 AM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

She didn't say she was a TPE slave... and even if she had it would change nothing. Labels never change anything. Agreements don't change anything. Rights don't change anything. When you get past all that stuff you're left with the reality of the relationship... the give and take between the participants.


This is the truth. Relationships don't fall into black and white. I don't think the OPs dominant is abusive or psychotically unreasonable.

The weight...If she's the same weight she's always been, I'd be questioning him as to why suddenly that weight is an issue.

The tattoo...She said she would never have one, and he apparently agreed when he entered a committed relationship. He can ask if she has changed her mind, but after she said "no" it should have been left alone. I'd be questioning as to why the tattoo is suddenly a hot button issue.

The career....again, I'm sure the job was discussed at the beginning and he still entered a committed relationship. If the job does not change hours or locations, I'd be questioning why he thought I should be declining something that would benefit the household.

We do WIITWD because it makes us happy. Those of you claiming that she's not a "real slave" because she's not just blindly agreeing seem to be missing that. She's not a "real slave" (none of us are), she's a human being in a consensual agreement....and she's here questioning because these things are making her unhappy. She has a right to question things that impact her beyond her relationship with him. A tattoo is pretty much permanent and declining the promotion could impact her earning ability for a long time down the road.

Relationships aren't black and white.





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RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/28/2012 8:11:58 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: frazzle
I didnt see anywhere in the OP her saying she was a TPE slave. Your way might work for you, but some of us do things differently. Calling someone Master does not mean we gave up all rights.

She didn't say she was a TPE slave... and even if she had it would change nothing. Labels never change anything. Agreements don't change anything. Rights don't change anything. When you get past all that stuff you're left with the reality of the relationship... the give and take between the participants.

The bottom line here, sliced in whatever way anyone wants to, is that she's not feeling like she's getting enough out of the relationship to provide the things he's asking for. Basically, the guy has overdrawn his account... dramatically given that she came here to ask these questions. Whether he ought to be able to give those commands is one of those hypothetical things.



Jeff has hit the nail on the proverbial head.


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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/28/2012 8:35:48 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

he wants me to lose some weight. I am not fat...
He is also annoyed at me because time and time again I refuse to get a tattoo. I told him this when we first met, and I will never change my mind. He always wants me to turn down a promotion at work, which is a 6.5k pay increase.
This screams of insecurity.

Insecurity leads to belittlement, which may be why he is critical of your weight. It can also lead to a power-play, trying to convince you to break your hard limit of a tattoo, and the thunder would roll if you make more money then he does!!

You need professional couples counseling or it will only get worse.

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RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/28/2012 5:22:14 PM   
Firebirdseeking


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Maybe she could stop thinking for herself altogether and just be a body to him, nothing more. Maybe he could order the perfect shaped body from the sub store where life sized Barbies are sold. Maybe this guy isnt about dominance.

(in reply to NinaAura)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/28/2012 5:54:07 PM   
LoreBook


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Maybe he could stop considering his wants altogether and just be a fetish delivery system to her, nothing more. Maybe she could order the perfect tailored-to-her-desires Master from the Dom shop where real live service tops are sold. Maybe this gal isn't about submission.


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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/29/2012 5:44:44 AM   
hellionsLight


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quote:

But the diet, hell, make a game out of it. Give rewards for each pound, small things, bigger rewards for each 5 pound block. Take her shopping. Do something she likes to do (Maybe even, gag, see a girlie type movie), give the slut orgasms!
Lay out lots of positive affirmations, encourage her in every way.



I agree with this, if you wan to do that, make it a game!

Edited to fix the quote code lol

< Message edited by hellionsLight -- 2/29/2012 5:45:10 AM >


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RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/29/2012 6:22:30 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

You're right about there being a larger issue present though, but its not the one you think it is. The issue is that she wants the title of slave to her Master, but isn't willing to fulfill the role. She's not walking the walk.


Does she? I wonder why she listed herself as submissive in her profile then?

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/29/2012 6:31:34 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoreBook

Maybe he could stop considering his wants altogether and just be a fetish delivery system to her, nothing more. Maybe she could order the perfect tailored-to-her-desires Master from the Dom shop where real live service tops are sold. Maybe this gal isn't about submission.



Wanting a master to respect your limits isn't looking for a fetish delivery system. Believe it or not, there are some masters out there who want the sub to be happy also. They talk things out and agree on things.

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/29/2012 6:34:35 AM   
Rule


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FR

Being a dominant is not about the needs of the dominant. It is about being responsible for the slave or submissive and developing and maximizing her or his full potential in agreement with the slave or submissive.

In this case thwarting the promotion and higher income of the submissive is irresponsible behavior.

As for the demand to lose weight, there is insufficient information to judge that. Body type and disease may factor into weight. Generally, if overweight is abundantly visible, a change in diet and exercise may be recommended, but the dominant had better participate in the effort.

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RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/29/2012 6:51:58 AM   
LoreBook


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quote:

Being a dominant is not about the needs of the dominant. It is about being responsible for the slave or submissive and developing and maximizing her or his full potential in agreement with the slave or submissive.
Um, that would be a no. The Svengali thing might be your kink, but it isn't everybody's.

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RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/29/2012 10:34:02 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoreBook
Um, that would be a no. The Svengali thing might be your kink, but it isn't everybody's.

Heh, well I'd be the last one to say what "being a dominant" is or is not about for anyone else, but the "Svengali" thing you mentioned is also how I view it. Although, I don't really get how it's a "Svengali thing". I just see it as being responsible for the woman I love. I mean seriously... whether or not I bossed Carol around, I love her. Loving her means I take responsibility for things like her life happiness -- at least to me it does. I honestly cannot conceive of any other way to use the word "love". The fact that I DO boss her around only makes that responsibility that much more poignantly pressing to me.


_____________________________

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"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/29/2012 10:54:09 AM   
FrostedFlake


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It is good now and then to re-evaluate. Particularly when under pressure.

Considering the points brought to the forum :

a/ BMI.
b/ Tattoo.
c/ Cold Hard Cash.

I find plenty to be concerned about.

Having briefly looked, it seems that the OP is at the 34th percentile for BMI while at the 95th+++ percentile for height. Sure, she could be thinner and might, from a certain point of view, look better that way. Then again, perhaps it will make her weak. In either case it is not the nicest message, and that is a dot.

If the tattoo was a no-go from the get-go and has been that way all the way down the line why is it unreasonable that it is a no-go, now? When and how did that change occur? According the original post, it didn't change, and THAT is the problem. Mr. Gentleman has become annoyed precisely because it has NOT changed. Read this any way you like, it is still not a nice message. And that is a dot.

And turning down money? Decline a promotion? At age 26? Let's suppose this ONLY means losing 6500$ annually for 40 years. That would come to $260,000 plus compound interest. This completely overlooks that if you decline one promotion it will be a very long time before you are offered another. So let's think about that for a moment. I challenge anyone to explain how this is a good thing. For anyone. Does the OP have kids, or plan to? It would seem her kids don't deserve much. And that is a dot.

Connect the dots. What picture emerges? I am not a Doctor, but this looks like White Male Entitlement Syndrome. The essential effect of that syndrome is that someone thinks he is something and that someone else isn't.

It is good to re-evaluate, now and then. Maybe the OP should change...?

http://www.halls.md/chart/women-height-w.htm




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by FrostedFlake -- 2/29/2012 10:59:59 AM >


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RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/29/2012 11:13:15 AM   
JeffBC


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You know... it's not exactly that I disagree with your guess in this case... but it's important to remember that it's only a guess. All three of those dots that you so confidently connect also exist in my and several other posters' relationships yet they connect to a different picture. You should've stuck with "I'm not a doctor".

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
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RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/29/2012 11:37:48 AM   
LoreBook


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 I called it a Svengali thing because that is what it is, to control somebody in order to make them a better person or to advance their career/life/whatever. If you want to dedicate yourself to serving her and call it dominance, you are free to do so, but I don't happen to agree with your definition. But like I said, that's your kink, so go for it.

But, if you do have this less common sort of service-oriented approach to your D/s, then you should realize that you are doing things differently, and shouldn't so freely label those who don't do it your way as abusers or fakes or insecure or fuckwits, or any of the other things the man in this story has been labeled. I grant that you yourself have not, but many others have.

Once again, the guy has not required anything outrageous, none of the things the guy wants are out of place or would be considered unreasonable in a purely vanilla relationship. But it seems that for many here the idea of being asked, in a D/s relationship, to do something you don't particularly want to do equates to abuse in some way. That is somewhat of an eye opening revelation.
To be 100% honest, given the attitudes displayed by most of the indignantly outraged "submissives" on this thread, I wouldn't consider them submissives of anything but the do-me variety.

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/29/2012 11:48:48 AM   
chatterbox24


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Poster, I am 5 11 and weigh 170 lbs. I am not fat by any means, your only an inch shorter then me. And at your weight, you have to be thin, and work out all the time, you sound in good toned shape. Little ridiculous for someone to insinuate ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Its Your body your stuck with a tatoo for life. You are the one who carries it around. Is it the image you want?

As far as the promotion, thats up to you too. Based on if you like the hours, will you be happy, is the money important to you, will it effect your relationships?

What happens if you do everything this SECURE dom asks and it doesnt work out afterward, how will you feel when you did everything HE wanted. Will you feel bad or bitter in the end that you didnt do what you wanted?


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RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/29/2012 11:49:44 AM   
SpiritedRadiance


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Regardless of vanilla or D/s your attempting to apply how it works in your world to every other person TPE isnt that common in D/s relationships in fact i only know of one TPE relationship in the entirety of the philly scene

Here are the facts

The op is not a slave, while she uses the term master she lists her self as a submissive... regardless of how you feel a submissive is not a slave.

the op in question is not comfortable and is having issues with whats being requested of her.. regardless of your opinion on whats reasonable and whats not... SHE finds it unreasonable. Thats why shes here, she finds whats being asked of her as unreasonable..

Shes also concerned, her dominant partner of 3 years and someone shes known for many more years, has suddenly changed... its the same as if Someone like Kana or you came home and was magically a very lenient Daddy dom type who no longer kept your submissive in control... Something has happened to make her question her place in his life, something that wasnt there 6 months ago, or a year ago...

Loving and caring for your submissive and making sure they are happy is not a crime. it does not make one less, nor does it make a submissive a "do me" It makes them someone who doesnt prescribe to a relationship that would fit you... However thank the gods your way isnt the only way...


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RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/29/2012 1:19:17 PM   
JeffBC


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Well, you'll be pleased to know that I FULLY understand that I see things differently. Here though, putting this out there quite simply...

The single largest goal in my life... BY FAR... is serving Carol, enriching her life, and in general making the world a better place for her in every way I can.

No, I do not think that is "dominance" in the BDSM sense of things. That's why I don't think of myself as "dominant" when I'm talking to a BDSM person and why generally they don't seem very dominant to me... apples and oranges and all that. It's also why I left these forums for a while. My own assessment is that this ties into the social/kink dominance thread.

I absolutely agree with your larger point that "different than me" does not equate with either better or worse. Personally, I tend to go with the "is it working out?" measure of good and bad. I'm all in favor of that which produces the most smiles.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LoreBook)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/29/2012 4:33:26 PM   
LoreBook


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Actually SpiritedRadiance, despite your repeated claims, I am not trying to apply how things work for me to the rest of the world. You, however, are doing just what you accuse me of. It’s you who is trying to apply your particular dynamic to the OP’s Master, and from that you've determined that he is an evil abusive insecure fuckwit simply for exercising his rights as the Dominant in the relationship. You see, despite what you want to believe, I do not believe that a TPE dynamic is the only valid dynamic.


I do believe, however, that if one is going to talk the talk, one should walk the walk, and the OP is not doing that. As you say, the OP uses the term Master. Now there are two possibilities here, the first is that he is in fact her Master, in which case she should stop whining and do as she's told. The other possibility is that she is simply using the term for its increased fap-factor. I suspect the later, because since she does not identify as a slave, then he can’t really be her Master, so they are just pretending. These words have meanings, you see, you can't just redefine them however you want just to heighten your erotic thrill and expect the rest of the world to abide by your new definitions. But, that's part of their kink. They like the added thrill of using the term Master, and that's fine, it’s their prerogative to do so, but the rest of the world can’t reasonably be expected to take them all that seriously when they do. To me, she comes across as really no different from the fapmasters and do-me boys that get so warmly welcomed in the Ask a Mistress forum. She wants all the trappings and fun of a D/s relationship with none of the work or effort of a D/s relationship.


Nobody disputes that the OP finds these requests unreasonable, however the fact that she does is not really the issue. The issue is are they? And they are not, they are perfectly reasonable requests. It’s a rare woman indeed who has not been asked at some point or another by an SO to lose weight. The MATH has made a few hints to me recently that I should hit the gym and work off the extra holiday cheer I accumulated. That’s not unreasonable or a sign of insecurity. It’s a sign that he finds that I’ve put on some weight and he’d like me to lose it. I’ve done the same thing to him when he started packing the pounds on. That’s what people who are not insecure do; they express their wants and desires openly and honestly.


It’s the same thing with the tattoo. I’ve already related how I was asked by a BF in high school to get a tattoo, and while I never actually counted, it seems to me that by the end of high school roughly ¼ to 1/3 of the girls had a tattoo of some sort or another, most of them at the request of their BFs, so it can hardly be considered an unreasonable request.


Now, I do agree that turning down the promotion looks questionable, but as has been pointed out several times by various people -- and been completely ignored by you; we don't know a thing about what is involved in this promotion, and there are umpteen possible reasons why his request is in fact perfectly reasonable. Last year, the MATH was offered a high paying position in Afghanistan. I asked him to turn it down, I felt the dangers outweighed the benefits, the money just wasn’t worth him risking life and limb that way. I’m sure you will agree that my request was perfectly reasonable.  The OP’s “Master” may have an equally valid reason for his request.


What I do find unreasonable is your insistence that there is no possibility of his requests being reasonable, your reaction has been one of "How dare he ask such things of her!?", and that, I'm afraid is both an unreasonable response and a case of allowing your freely admitted prejudice against men, to cloud your judgment and thereby rendering your advice both tainted and, in this case, destructive and counterproductive. This is really very irresponsible of you, because your advice is not based on the facts and events of the OP’s situation as presented, but are apparently based on some experience out of your past completely unrelated to the OP and her current issue. It is doubly so, because you seem to have little understanding of what is implied in the concept of a D/s relationship.


Now, regarding the sudden sweeping change you say happened, I'm afraid that you are, once again, making things up, or projecting some past experience of your own. There's nothing in the OP saying that he has changed or is drastically different. All she says is that he has recently made some new demands of her. How do you equate him making new demands of her with suddenly completely changing, with Kana becoming a fluffy DaddyDom? I'm afraid this drastic change that you cite just isn't there in the information we've been given.  I personally think there has been a change, I think the change is that for the first time in 3 years, her “Master” has asked something of her that goes beyond “bend over and spread ‘em” or “suck me slut”, and she resents him trying to actually dominate her and to control her life beyond the bedroom. The evidence presented in the OP supports that theory far better than it does yours.


You're right that loving and caring for your submissive isn't a crime nor does it make one less or the submissive a do-me, however, nobody but you is discussing loving or caring about your submissive, once again, you are inventing things out of whole cloth to support your position. I would not take a submissive that I did not care for deeply nor would I want my submissive to be unhappy, and that is precisely why I would require my submissive to give over control to me.


From reading your responses in this thread and a few others, it’s increasingly clear to me that you simply do not really understand the fundamental concepts of dominance and submission, so you have a hard time accepting that there is another way to do things other than your method of placing the submissive's wants above all else. That, I'm afraid, really isn't submission, at best it’s topping from the bottom -- and thank the gods that way isn't the only way.



< Message edited by LoreBook -- 2/29/2012 4:40:37 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: He wants me to change....? - 2/29/2012 4:36:54 PM   
LoreBook


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LOL. I am pleased to know that. I'll keep that in mind when I read your posts in the future, and I'm sure I will find myself wanting to dispute what you post far less often.

I haven't looked at that thread since I made my first post, I'll go check it out and see if I see the connection you see. Cheers.



_____________________________

WITHOUT "ART" THE EARTH IS JUST "EH"



LLT

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 80
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