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RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 1:35:21 PM

xssve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve
http://www.google.com/#q=cuckolding+couples+happiness+study&hl=en&prmd=imvnsb&ei=G-RYT9WyKrL_sQLEu-3QDQ&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=9970e3d003ee7d92&biw=1280&bih=736

This link is nothing more than the google results for the term. The book that is the first entry on the list is the same author of the article that you linked earlier. I'm not seeing it attached to polyandry or prostitution. That is the study that I would like to see.

There is no such study, stripped of linguistic connotations however, the behaviors are practically identical from an evolutionary standpoint, even if they categorized very differently in social terms.

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RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 1:39:37 PM

xssve

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The study I referred to was a study of couples happiness, I mentioned no study about prostitution, you said the link for the NYT article didnt' work, I linked the wrong google page, although if you googled the search terms, in the google link it would have landed on this page: The Dangerous Passion - Third link down or so.

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RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 1:39:49 PM

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Yeah monogamy weakens the genepool. I got this from Rule.

(in reply to xssve)

RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 1:55:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Cucking is a kink that is entirely sexual, and if may use the term, phallocentric. It's all about the peen, one's not "good enough", the other's shinier or curves the right way.

Wow, I completely disagree with this. Sure, the porn-inspired version of cuckolding that is so often discussed on these boards may be phallocentric, but that's why I wanted to have this discussion. I wanted to talk about a version of cuckolding that is initiated by the female, and where the female maintains the power.

IMO, if the guy begs to be cuckolded, then that doesn't fit the definition of a cuck. I think these are the situations that you're referring to.

Forget all of the ridiculous "Will somebody please cuckold me?" threads that you've read on CollarMe. Those are exactly the threads that give people the wrong impression of cuckolding.

quote:

let's be honest, this IS a male oriented kink--then it needs to be hinted at, massaged, threatened all the time.

You seem to be basing all of your comments upon this false assumption. Can you please try to imagine a situation where the woman holds the cards rather than the man? You seem to be stuck on an incorrect (though common) paradigm.

quote:

I'm not young. I am loving being not-young, but my sexual interests are not the same as they used to be. I gave up sportfucking when I turned 45. It was fun, but really, it was harming me emotionally. I still think about casual hookups, but I am not doing that kind of thing anymore. So what happens when the lady decides the same thing? What if she is actually HAPPY with the man she wakes up with, is busy with her work, dealing with her kids, taking her parents to their doctor appointments, ALL THE THINGS REAL WOMEN DO, and just doesn't have the time or interest to go cruising for strange?

How long before I have to go looking? Six months? A year? WHAT IF I NEVER EXCERCISE THE OPTION? Have I failed as a cuckoldress?

Sigh. You just don't get it. And that's okay. But just because it wouldn't work for you, why are you making such pronouncements for the entire world?

I served a Domme who was happily married for over 20 years. Her husband is also her slave. They were a white couple, and in addition to being her sub, I was also her "bull". Her husband would come home from work, and he'd see me there with his wife. He knew who I was, and what my role was. But he was always courteous to me, and while I stopped serving her years ago, they are still happily married. She also had another "bull" who I met on several occasions. He had been with her long before I came into the picture, and he was still around when I was gone.

But the reality was that most of the time that we spent with her was spent doing NSA housework. I mowed her lawn every week. I ran errands for her. I shoveled the driveway and sidewalks anytime it snowed. I raked the leaves. I did chores around the house. Same with the other "bull". We were primarily her domestic servants. Occasionally she'd use us for sexual purposes, but 95% of the time, we did work for her. But I think her husband thought that it was far more sexual than it was. He thought that I was servicing her with my BBC, when in reality, she had me massaging her feet and calves for an hour.

Similarly, the Domme that I mentioned at the beginning of this thread was in complete control as well. In that situation, she was also my live-in girlfriend. She did have sex on a regular basis with her girlfriend. In fact, mFf threesomes became our standard form of sexual activity. But she controlled the situation completely, and I was never allowed to touch her girlfriend in a sexual manner. All of our sexual attention had to be focused completely on her.

When she decided to add male lovers, it was her decision. I had no say in the matter. She didn't actually exercise her freedom very often. In fact, in the years that we were together, I don't think she actually went out with more than 2 guys. But for her, the allure was in knowing that she could, not in fucking random guys.

The version of cuckolding that I'm talking about is all about female empowerment with the male as the "victim", while you're talking about a version where the male is in charge and the female services his kink. These really are two very different models that both are often labeled "cuckolding". But as I've said many times throughout this thread, when the male is begging for it, and the activities are basically to satisfy his kink, then it isn't really cuckolding.

I'm not certain, but I think that based on your definition, poly households, swinging, and many other kinks are also impossibilities. I don't agree with that, but you're free to believe as you see fit.

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 3/8/2012 2:07:34 PM >

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 1:58:54 PM

xssve

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Anyway, there is a small modern Qadishtu revivalist movement, don't know how popular it is or anything about it, or it's immediate relevance if any to cuckolding, but it might be worth checking out if you find any of the spiritual aspects of it interesting, and that seems to be more where this thread is focused, as opposed to gory detail.

http://templeindigo.com/

Looks kind of intriguing and they seem to be relatively sane. Anybody knows anything more about this I'd like to hear.

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RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 1:59:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009
The first is that despite the distasteful nature of imagining your wife or girlfriend with another man, there is nevertheless something about the thought that can be arousing.

... OK, I know this is from the other direction but I can't hardly believe they are unrelated. But what about all those masters... myself among them... who finds something hot in sharing their slave. Honestly, I don't find the idea of Carol getting fucked by some other guy "distasteful". I find the idea of her cheating on me distasteful. But the idea of her doing it at my command or... in some other above-boards way... her ending up with a different partner has no "distaste" attached which leaves room for whatever hotness might accrue.

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RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 2:02:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: whisper676
I'm married (to a mostly vanilla man, who is not Dominant at all). Before we were ever married, we'd talked about fantasies, and had a couple of long term threesomes. I say long term, because it was much more than a one night fling. It was always MMF, although I did have a couple of bi experiences with women, which my husband enjoyed watching, but never joined in.

I've never considered my husband to be a cuck, as he knows exactly what I'm doing and with whom. He just enjoys watching and isn't jealous at all. He attends all first and early meets, and once he's comfortable with who I am playing with, is ok with me going for one on one sessions, although he still really enjoys the watching and so wants to be included in some. I always sort of cringed when Doms would call him a cuck, because I didn't think of him that way, he's my husband, my partner.

Thank you so much for sharing. That is exactly the type of arrangement that I was hoping that someone would share. I have many friends who are in cuckolding relationships where the female is completely in charge. I knew that there had to be others here on CM that were doing the same thing.

BTW, please stop in again after you start serving your new Dom. I'd love to hear an update on how that goes, both for you and the Dom, and also for your husband.

(in reply to whisper676)

RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 2:02:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
But the idea of her doing it at my command or... in some other above-boards way... her ending up with a different partner has no "distaste" attached which leaves room for whatever hotness might accrue.

Ah, that clinches it for me. Now I can understand why LadyPact sees it - *when instigated by the femdom* as a major-league power trip.

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RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 2:05:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

... OK, I know this is from the other direction but I can't hardly believe they are unrelated. But what about all those masters... myself among them... who finds something hot in sharing their slave. Honestly, I don't find the idea of Carol getting fucked by some other guy "distasteful". I find the idea of her cheating on me distasteful. But the idea of her doing it at my command or... in some other above-boards way... her ending up with a different partner has no "distaste" attached which leaves room for whatever hotness might accrue.

I agree that these are definitely related phenomenon. Great example, even though you are coming at it from the perspective of a male Dom sharing a female slave. I can definitely see how the feelings involved would be very similar.

(in reply to JeffBC)

RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 2:11:35 PM

xssve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Yeah monogamy weakens the genepool. I got this from Rule.

Well, it's more like a trade off between K strategy and genetic diversity, what's called opportunity cost in economics. Typically, as a social meme, it's often divided across class lines: promiscuous wealthy women are "sophisticated" and "adventurous", poor promiscuous poor women are "sluts" or "Whores", but behaviorally there not a huge amount of difference, other than wealthy women can hire nannies and wet nurses - otherwise it's more a matter of labels.

But just looking at the marriage statistics it's hard not to form the rough impression that only about half the population is able to handle strict monogamy on the first try - others require several tries, and others never seem to take to it at all.

Generally speaking however, children seem to do better with a same sex parent around to model on, and that's K strategy: less diversity, more enculturation and nurturing - if you have boys and girls both like most, then some sort of monogamy, strict or social, would presumably facilitate K strategies at some cost to diversity.

< Message edited by xssve -- 3/8/2012 2:12:36 PM >

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RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 2:15:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: whisper676
That being said... After a 3 1/2 year hiatus, I've been looking to step back into the lifestyle and have been in talks with someone who is much more experienced than anyone else from my past. He's looking to eventually own me, and give me a collar. I'm struggling with this, as it's not something I've wanted in the past, and I'm wondering effect that can/will have on my marriage. That's an entirely different topic, however, and to drag it back to the cuckhold aspect, this Dom has told my husband he will be cleaning me/us afterwards etc. My husband has embraced the idea of a chastity device, and seems to be enthusiastic about the other ideas the Dom has broached.

It sounds like you've done the 'introductory' and 'intermediary courses', and passed them, whisper, but I do think this latest project takes things to a qualitatively different level. I think you're right to be careful. Small measures, strictly controlled - that'd be my motto, for what it's worth.

When I was doing the 'bulling' in my aforementioned scene, I didn't even ask if kissing was allowed. I knew it couldn't be. Also, while he was happy for her to give me a BJ, and give me one himself (even both at the same time - much fun!) - no actual p in v penetration was allowed. "Too intimate", they both said. And I never met with one without the other being there, too.

The 'bull' has to let the couple lead, always. Or so I concluded, anyway.

Funny, though. Remembering, now: they were always so concerned that they were using me rather than vice versa.

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(in reply to whisper676)

RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 2:43:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Yeah monogamy weakens the genepool. I got this from Rule.

Well, it's more like a trade off between K strategy and genetic diversity, what's called opportunity cost in economics. Typically, as a social meme, it's often divided across class lines: promiscuous wealthy women are "sophisticated" and "adventurous", poor promiscuous poor women are "sluts" or "Whores", but behaviorally there not a huge amount of difference, other than wealthy women can hire nannies and wet nurses - otherwise it's more a matter of labels.

But just looking at the marriage statistics it's hard not to form the rough impression that only about half the population is able to handle strict monogamy on the first try - others require several tries, and others never seem to take to it at all.

Generally speaking however, children seem to do better with a same sex parent around to model on, and that's K strategy: less diversity, more enculturation and nurturing - if you have boys and girls both like most, then some sort of monogamy, strict or social, would presumably facilitate K strategies at some cost to diversity.

Hell we have 6 billion fuckin antpeople walkin this earthnut, so I agree. We have enough diversity to last into eternity.

(in reply to xssve)

RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 3:33:03 PM

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Roch, I know I am posting between accounts and not expressing myself as clearly as I might, but this is the second time you've decided that I don't "get it".

I get it just fine, thanks. (and I am also poly, surprise!) Your experience and approach to submission are different from what I would want, and our styles are not matched. That does not mean that I think your opinions are invalid. It means that I do not agree with you. I have seen you push a few ideas that you think are such great power rushes for women, or "should" be. They are NOT, for many of us. The things that men consider empowering to women are often male behaviors that do not interest us.

I suspect that my emotionally poly leanings make cuckoldry a non-starter for me, because I am not interested in using my sexuality in that fashion. I tried it, it was okayish, and I didn't see it as a "power trip", because I was doing what I would have done anyway, namely fucking who I wanted to fuck. The day a man controls my sexuality? Not happening, ever. I might control my own actions for the sake of the relationship. That's a mastery thing.

All that stuff I posted before was a blending of some actual conversations with MEN who were into the fetish, and of course wondering why they couldn't find women into it. I am always willing to be persuaded to try new things, or at least think about them. So far, I haven't been persuaded that it's something I need to explore. And I am a woman who sought out emotionless sex.

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RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 3:48:14 PM

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Come on, Lady Hib, admit it. You're just too nice for this cuckolding stuff, aren't you? That's the fundamental problem here.

Well, as far as I'm concerned, there are worse faults in this world. You stick to your guns, my lovely lady.

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RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 3:54:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: whisper676
That being said... After a 3 1/2 year hiatus, I've been looking to step back into the lifestyle and have been in talks with someone who is much more experienced than anyone else from my past. He's looking to eventually own me, and give me a collar. I'm struggling with this, as it's not something I've wanted in the past, and I'm wondering effect that can/will have on my marriage. That's an entirely different topic, however, and to drag it back to the cuckhold aspect, this Dom has told my husband he will be cleaning me/us afterwards etc. My husband has embraced the idea of a chastity device, and seems to be enthusiastic about the other ideas the Dom has broached.

It sounds like you've done the 'introductory' and 'intermediary courses', and passed them, whisper, but I do think this latest project takes things to a qualitatively different level. I think you're right to be careful. Small measures, strictly controlled - that'd be my motto, for what it's worth.

When I was doing the 'bulling' in my aforementioned scene, I didn't even ask if kissing was allowed. I knew it couldn't be. Also, while he was happy for her to give me a BJ, and give me one himself (even both at the same time - much fun!) - no actual p in v penetration was allowed. "Too intimate", they both said. And I never met with one without the other being there, too.

The 'bull' has to let the couple lead, always. Or so I concluded, anyway.

Funny, though. Remembering, now: they were always so concerned that they were using me rather than vice versa.

There is somewhat of a different aspect to this than your situation, as in the person being the Bull in this case will also be my Dom. My husband and I have never had issues with kissing or intercourse, as long as it's safe... I will take care, and as always in the past, the open communication between my husband and I will help. Thank you for your advice.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 4:21:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: whisper676
There is somewhat of a different aspect to this than your situation, as in the person being the Bull in this case will also be my Dom. My husband and I have never had issues with kissing or intercourse, as long as it's safe... I will take care, and as always in the past, the open communication between my husband and I will help. Thank you for your advice.

Just my feelings and instincts, whisper. You know your own situation far better than I do - and, from what you've said, things seem solid and healthy enough between you two.

I'd say, though, keep a careful watch on your hub's face. He'll show unhappiness there way before anything actually comes out of his mouth about it, I'd bet. Don't let him keep going all grit-jawed and saying 'All's fine, all's fine', when you know damned well that it isn't.

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RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 4:24:12 PM

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From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

What aspects of cuckolding appeal to you? The humiliation? The sexual freedom? The taboo nature of it? Or something else?

I am a woman and this is one of my all time fav-o-rite fantasies. I think all the things you mention above are part of the excitement of it for me. I love the idea of Master being with whomever He wants, however He wants, whenever He wants and including me if and only if He desires - to the degree that He desires. There is nothing about it that doesn't excite me to the core. And even though virtually nothing about female supremacy or domination over men interests or excites me, the idea of cuckolding does. The subject is THAT hawt

luci

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RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 4:33:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: whisper676
There is somewhat of a different aspect to this than your situation, as in the person being the Bull in this case will also be my Dom. My husband and I have never had issues with kissing or intercourse, as long as it's safe... I will take care, and as always in the past, the open communication between my husband and I will help. Thank you for your advice.

Just my feelings and instincts, whisper. You know your own situation far better than I do - and, from what you've said, things seem solid and healthy enough between you two.

I'd say, though, keep a careful watch on your hub's face. He'll show unhappiness there way before anything actually comes out of his mouth about it, I'd bet. Don't let him keep going all grit-jawed and saying 'All's fine, all's fine', when you know damned well that it isn't.

Bahahahahaha... That's exactly what he does when he gets in a mood about something. Then he starts cleaning. I used to get stressed when he'd be cleaning like that, but now I know it's his way to control things (the cleaning thing comes from a previous marriage...).

This is why I'm wary of a collar... My husband is and will always be my number one. Being owned will be a direct competition. Again, all things to discuss up front in our first meeting(s), before anything goes forward. I won't do anything that jeopardizes my marriage. It's one of my hard limits :)

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 6:04:20 PM

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What a great point of view on cuckolding.I have been curious about this myself for awhile now.Its interesting to see what people who have been there have to say.Nothing speaks like experience.

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RE: A serious discussion about cuckolding - 3/8/2012 6:51:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
this is the second time you've decided that I don't "get it".

I get it just fine, thanks. (and I am also poly, surprise!) Your experience and approach to submission are different from what I would want, and our styles are not matched. That does not mean that I think your opinions are invalid. It means that I do not agree with you. I have seen you push a few ideas that you think are such great power rushes for women, or "should" be. They are NOT, for many of us.

But that's where we've had a disconnect. I have never tried to push any ideas on anyone. What I have done is said that there is a very different version of cuckolding than is typically depicted in porn or that is typically described on CM. You know the type that I'm talking about. It's typically where some horny net geek says, "I want somebody to cuckold me. I will sit in the corner and rub my tiny cock as my Mistress is fucked by a gigantic BBC. Afterwards, I will happily clean up my Mistress and her lover". Groan!

I think that is a misinterpretation of cuckolding, since cuckolding is about an empowered female who exercises her sexual freedom, and not about a horny male. Yet despite this, you have repeatedly said that cuckolding is all about the male. You've stated repeatedly that it is all about the male fulfilling his fantasy. In other words, you seemed to be espousing the same brand of cuckolding that I was trying to NOT talk about.

Moreover, I understand that cuckolding is not for you. Fine. I don't remember saying that it was. Nor was this thread intended to be about convincing anyone to try cuckolding. Instead, my purpose was to try to bring to light a different version of cuckolding. (BTW, that's very different from trying to force my views on anyone).

Lastly, you have stated that you don't think that cuckolding can work, even though I, LadyPact, and others have shared our experiences which say that it can and has.

You and I have never had an argument about anything on these boards (as far as I can remember). So you know that I have no ill will towards you. But I haven't understood why you seemed to repeatedly try to take the conversation back to the kind of porn-inspired, male focused cuckolding that I intentionally was trying to avoid discussing.

quote:

So far, I haven't been persuaded that it's something I need to explore. And I am a woman who sought out emotionless sex.

My goal was never to persuade anyone of anything. That's where you were mistaken.

Cuckolding is not for you. We get it. And I will make no efforts to convince you that it is. Deal?

BTW, I had no idea that you were poly. I just learned something new about you.

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 3/8/2012 6:54:41 PM >

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

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