Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (Full Version)

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Iamsemisweet -> Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 3:28:42 PM)

Kansas to Pregnant Women: "A Little Lie from Your Doctor Won't Hurt You" Posted by Jennifer Dalven, Reproductive Freedom Project at 12:54pm It's what every pregnant woman I know dreads. Going into that big ultrasound, having the ultrasound tech, who had been so chatty, suddenly go silent. Having her do sweep after sweep across your belly without saying another word, until finally, she gets up and solemnly says, "I am going to get the doctor."
As far as pregnancy nightmares go, I thought that was one of the worst. But now politicians in Kansas are giving pregnant women and their partners something new to worry about. Buried in a sweeping anti-abortion bill is a provision that would immunize a doctor who discovers that a baby will be born with a devastating condition and deliberately withholds that information from his patient. That's right. If the bill passes, a doctor who opposes abortion could decide to lie about the results of your blood tests, your ultrasound, your cvs or your amnio. Lie to you so that you won't have information that might lead you to decide to end your pregnancy or that might lead you to learn more about your child's condition so that you are prepared to be the best parent you can be to your child.
Now, I have been working for a long time defending the right of a pregnant woman to make the best decision for herself and her family, whether that is continuing the pregnancy, adoption, or abortion, based on full, accurate information. I thought I had seen just about every manner of government intrusion into those fundamentally personal and private decisions. I thought I was past the point of being shocked and outraged. But as a mother who has been through those ultrasounds myself, the thought that my doctor could choose to withhold this information from me and take this decision away from me and my husband ... well, let's just say it really touched a nerve.
And, unfortunately, it's not just Kansas. Other states motivated by anti-abortion zeal are jumping on the it's-ok-for-doctors-to lie-to-their-patients-to-prevent-them-from-having-an-abortion bandwagon. Oklahoma recently passed a similar law. And, the Arizona legislature is considering a similar bill.
But I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Despite the rhetoric of anti-abortion politicians about how all these restrictions are necessary to ensure that women's decisions are well-informed, it's never been about that. Doctors who provide abortions already work hard to ensure that every woman has the information she needs to make the best decision for herself and her family. What these bills are about is politicians who think they know better than women and who are trying to impose their own views on abortion on a woman and her family regardless of the circumstances: That's what's behind those now infamous ultrasound bills in places like Virginia, Idaho, and Pennsylvania. That's what's behind the bills in Georgia and Arizona that would ban abortion at the point when a woman often learns about a devastating diagnosis. And that is what is behind so many of the other bills working their way through the state legislatures right now. The Kansas bill is, in a way, just more upfront about it.
Well, enough is enough. We may not all agree about abortion, but we can all agree that these decisions ought to be made by a woman and her family, not a politician. So, whether you are a man or a woman; whether you are already a parent or think you might become one in the future; whether you are blissfully pregnant or unhappily so, if you care about your right to make your own decisions, I ask that you help get the word out. Share this blog on Facebook and Twitter. Send an email with this link to the President of the Kansas Senate. Tell the politicians all over the country to stop interfering in a family's personal and private decisions.




tazzygirl -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 4:24:03 PM)

Its funny. I cannot see this holding up to a court challenge. Blanket immunity?




Iamsemisweet -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 4:25:52 PM)

I know.  If I was a medical malpractice insurer, I would be cautious, to say the least.





kalikshama -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 4:27:46 PM)

Would someone be so kind as to dig up the bill?




Lucylastic -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 4:47:59 PM)

https://www.aclu.org/blog/reproductive-freedom/kansas-pregnant-women-little-lie-your-doctor-wont-hurt-you
http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2011_12/measures/hb2598/




Iamsemisweet -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 4:49:11 PM)

House Bill 2598

http://kslegislature.org/li/b2011_12/measures/documents/hb2598_00_0000.pdf




erieangel -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 4:55:09 PM)

So this bill is not only asking, but demanding that doctors practice gross incompetence?? Do I have this right?





Moonhead -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 4:56:50 PM)

Sounds like it.




Iamsemisweet -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 5:07:02 PM)

It is a little more subtle than that.  The bill eliminates wrongful birth suits.  Therefore, in the event your doctor does not disclose that the fetus has a life threatening disease or deformity, even if he knew that through an ultrasound or otherwise, there is no legal cause of action against him.
quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

So this bill is not only asking, but demanding that doctors practice gross incompetence?? Do I have this right?






erieangel -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 5:08:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

It is a little more subtle than that.  The bill eliminates wrongful birth suits.  Therefore, in the event your doctor does not disclose that the fetus has a life threatening disease or deformity, even if he knew that through an ultrasound or otherwise, there is no legal cause of action against him.
quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

So this bill is not only asking, but demanding that doctors practice gross incompetence?? Do I have this right?






Ok thanks




Lucylastic -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 5:12:06 PM)

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/08/arizona-senate-approves-lying-to-women-to-prevent-abortions/
Arizona Senate approves lying to women to prevent abortions
Arizona is at it to




SternSkipper -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 5:13:54 PM)

quote:

Its funny. I cannot see this holding up to a court challenge. Blanket immunity?


It will in a Mormon court... hint hint




SadistDave -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 5:14:57 PM)

In the case of liberal women, I encourage killing your offspring and propose that we allow left leaning mouthbreathers the right to snuff out their spawn well into the teens... If you believe that you have the right to murder your children, I don't see why you should have to stop trying to whack them after you squeeze 'em out. After all, the school years are such a bore, don't you find?

You know how it is. That special seXXXy guy starts to make his move out on the patio. A soft breeze wafts gently through your hair. You know... tonights the night! You slip off your Birkenstocks and like a bad dream there's little Jimmy needing help with his essay entitled "Bowing to my Vegan Masters". If giving the little bastard life was such a chore then just think of the terrible inconvienience something like that would be when you want a little strange... /endsarcasm

I also happen to agree that this is wrong. A doctor who lies to his patient is committing fraud and malpractice, as well as breaking the very oath he is supposed to be upholding.

In the entire history of this debate, no one has gained enough support to go either way on the issue. I suggest a new approach. I think all liberals need to do is convince the conservatives that supporting a liberals rights to not pollute the gene pool with their unwanted brood would probably benefit just about everyone in the long run... Hey! Maybe that's the slogan you should all adopt! I bet if the rallying cry on abortion from liberals was changed to "This means we aren't breeding!" you would probably get at least 80% of conservatives to stop opposing it... /notsarcasm

-SD-




Winterapple -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 5:21:32 PM)

FR
These bills are going to have a lot
of rightwing supporters. They combine
two of their greatest obsessions,
abortions and medical malpractice.
Two birds with one stone sort of thing.




Iamsemisweet -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 5:24:47 PM)

Why bother to post if you have nothing intelligible to add?

Seriously, I can see how a principled person of conscience could be opposed to abortion, whether I agree with them or not.  You never know when a well expressed, logical argument might tip the scales, and change my mind.  Blather like SD's post is not and will never be that argument.


quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

In the case of liberal women, I encourage killing your offspring and propose that we allow left leaning mouthbreathers the right to snuff out their spawn well into the teens... If you believe that you have the right to murder your children, I don't see why you should have to stop trying to whack them after you squeeze 'em out. After all, the school years are such a bore, don't you find?

You know how it is. That special seXXXy guy starts to make his move out on the patio. A soft breeze wafts gently through your hair. You know... tonights the night! You slip off your Birkenstocks and like a bad dream there's little Jimmy needing help with his essay entitled "Bowing to my Vegan Masters". If giving the little bastard life was such a chore then just think of the terrible inconvienience something like that would be when you want a little strange... /endsarcasm

I also happen to agree that this is wrong. A doctor who lies to his patient is committing fraud and malpractice, as well as breaking the very oath he is supposed to be upholding.

In the entire history of this debate, no one has gained enough support to go either way on the issue. I suggest a new approach. I think all liberals need to do is convince the conservatives that supporting a liberals rights to not pollute the gene pool with their unwanted brood would probably benefit just about everyone in the long run... Hey! Maybe that's the slogan you should all adopt! I bet if the rallying cry on abortion from liberals was changed to "This means we aren't breeding!" you would probably get at least 80% of conservatives to stop opposing it... /notsarcasm

-SD-




SadistDave -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 5:31:12 PM)

quote:

In the case of liberal women, I encourage killing your offspring and propose that we allow left leaning mouthbreathers the right to snuff out their spawn well into the teens... If you believe that you have the right to murder your children, I don't see why you should have to stop trying to whack them after you squeeze 'em out. After all, the school years are such a bore, don't you find?

You know how it is. That special seXXXy guy starts to make his move out on the patio. A soft breeze wafts gently through your hair. You know... tonights the night! You slip off your Birkenstocks and like a bad dream there's little Jimmy needing help with his essay entitled "Bowing to my Vegan Masters". If giving the little bastard life was such a chore then just think of the terrible inconvienience something like that would be when you want a little strange... /endsarcasm

I also happen to agree that this is wrong. A doctor who lies to his patient is committing fraud and malpractice, as well as breaking the very oath he is supposed to be upholding.

In the entire history of this debate, no one has gained enough support to go either way on the issue. I suggest a new approach. I think all liberals need to do is convince the conservatives that supporting a liberals rights to not pollute the gene pool with their unwanted brood would probably benefit just about everyone in the long run... Hey! Maybe that's the slogan you should all adopt! I bet if the rallying cry on abortion from liberals was changed to "This means we aren't breeding!" you would probably get at least 80% of conservatives to stop opposing it... /notsarcasm

-SD-


I agree that you should go ahead and kill your unwanted children, and thats not good enough for you? If you're willing to advocate the right to murder a child soley on the basis of having a right to choose, let's not be squeamish about it.

I may not agree for the reasons you like, but I do agree.

-SD-







BitaTruble -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 5:38:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

So this bill is not only asking, but demanding that doctors practice gross incompetence?? Do I have this right?



That's close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades and pretty much how I read the bill as well. How are women, with a bill such as this in place, supposed to trust doctors enough to actually seek out treatment from them knowing they can just lie or omit information about what is really going on inside our own bodies.

I'm not really prepared nor do I think I can afford my own MRI or sonagram machine and if I could afford it, I certainly wouldn't know how to use it or read the results.

Might as well go back to bleeding and leeches.. (the first of which I actually don't mind but leeches are just yucky if you ask me!)




SternSkipper -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 5:41:30 PM)

quote:

In the case of liberal women, I encourage killing your offspring and propose that we allow left leaning mouthbreathers the rig


You're supposed to let a whine breath after you uncork




Iamsemisweet -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 5:42:47 PM)

Why bother to respond to someone as dogmatic and hateful as that?  Yes, I know I should take my own advice. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

In the case of liberal women, I encourage killing your offspring and propose that we allow left leaning mouthbreathers the rig


You're supposed to let a whine breath after you uncork




tazzygirl -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 5:45:23 PM)

quote:

I agree that you should go ahead and kill your unwanted children


If they were children, you might have a complaint.

quote:

murder a child


What child are we advocating anyone murder?

Murder... : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

No one is committing murder.





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