RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women".

RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (Full Version)

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Winterapple -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 6:49:11 PM)
He's also conveniently overlooking the obvious. Not all women who have abortions are liberal or on the left or have any political leanings at all. Conservative, Republican, rightwing and religious women have all had abortions. And I don't mean before their conversions to the right way of thinking. There's also the obvious fact that in some necessitated cases the female was still a child herself when the procedure was performed.

SadistDave -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 7:04:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Winterapple He's also conveniently overlooking the obvious. Not all women who have abortions are liberal or on the left or have any political leanings at all. Conservative, Republican, rightwing and religious women have all had abortions. And I don't mean before their conversions to the right way of thinking. There's also the obvious fact that in some necessitated cases the female was still a child herself when the procedure was performed. I'm not overlooking these things. I support women of every political and religious belief system in this. If conservative women want to whack their unborn, I'm fine with their decision to do it. I just actively encourage it among liberals. If you want to make the case that there are extenuating circumstances and medical conditions about abortions go right ahead. However, you really are preaching to the choir on that one. Unfortunately, that's not what this bill is about. It's about telling unhealthy women that they have no health risk so they will carry an unwanted child to term, which everyone here seems to universally agree is a pretty bad idea... You're barking up the wrong tree. Besides, you don't have to convince me. If you want to suck a fetus out of someones womb with a bendy straw I'll happily go down to the Quik E Mart and buy you a 44oz. soda. They have the best straws... -SD-

Winterapple -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 7:15:54 PM)
I think it's a bit more complicated than a bendy straw and I'm not medically qualified to perform abortions or any other medical procedure. So you're pro choice and pro bad taste? Or just one of those edgy guys that likes to rattle cages and "shock" people. Better be careful with that, you know if you startle a pregnant woman the baby will be born with a harelip.

SternSkipper -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 7:18:55 PM)
quote: Why bother to respond to someone as dogmatic and hateful as that? Yes, I know I should take my own advice. I support your desire to respond ANYWAY you see fit to wussy hatespeak like that.

tazzygirl -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 7:20:38 PM)
quote: It's a simple moral belief. Ah so all women are to bow down to your moral beliefs? By what right do you claim this demand? quote: You believe that life begins only when a fetus is viable. That's your right. No, I believe, along with the medical community, that life is not viable until after 20 weeks. In fact, the earlier being 21 weeks, 6 days.. and only because she lied to the physicians about her gestational dates. Disregard the multiple health complications and the millions of dollars in cost to the public. quote: You just go ahead and believe that. I believe that life begins at the moment of conception. Conception... when egg meets sperm. And if they merge, but do not implant, is it also murder? Almost 50% of all pregnancies end that way. quote: This idea that it's not life because it can't survive on it's own is nonsense. It is about the same as believing that killing people on life support is okay because they cannot survive on their own. Yet it is a legally valid and supported belief. quote: The only disconnect here is that you fail to understand that I'm really okay with calling it murder even when I support it. And the next person can call it sunshine... again.. doesnt make it correct. You may believe as you wish. Legally and medically speaking, you are wrong. quote: I call it murder when you advocate it and I call it murder when I advocate it. If that makes you uncomfortable, then maybe you should rethink your beliefs. Why should I rethink my beliefs? The medically community agrees with me. The legal one as well. Perhaps its you who should rethink yours. Trying to convince me that you are right wont work. Your morals hold no power over me. Perhaps more reading of the bible for you... perhaps talking to your pastor might work. I dont know.. nor do I care. Nor am I under any fallacy that anything I say will change your mind, regardless of how wrong you are. But I do hate hypocrisy.. I also hate people who cant seem to put their personal beliefs aside, but, instead, try to force them onto others. And that is what you are trying to do on this thread. You failed. Accept that.

Lucylastic -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 7:21:50 PM)
Its called belief, because it cant be called knowledge

tazzygirl -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 7:22:40 PM)
quote: I'm not overlooking these things. I support women of every political and religious belief system in this. If conservative women want to whack their unborn, I'm fine with their decision to do it. I just actively encourage it among liberals. You should, considering the number of republican sperm trails slithering down the backs of their boyfriends legs. I suppose you do need to even out the odds before the GOP becomes extinct.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 7:23:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave I agree that you should go ahead and kill your unwanted children, and thats not good enough for you? If you're willing to advocate the right to murder a child soley on the basis of having a right to choose, let's not be squeamish about it. I may not agree for the reasons you like, but I do agree. -SD- A fetus is not a child. If it were, miscarriages would be treated very differently by religions. No religion REQUIRES a naming or proper funeral service for a miscarried fetus. You know why that is? Because a fetus is NOT a child. Most cultures in the world do not even announce a pregnancy until after the first trimester. You know why that is? Because the risk of miscarriage is so high in the first trimester, that people feel it is better not talk about it until there is greater certainty about the pregnancy. It allows them to not have to discuss it with anyone if a miscarriage occurs. And because a fetus is not a child, there really is no reason that anyone should have to know. Most cultures in the world do no really discuss first trimester miscarriages. Most women you know who have had miscarriages are unlikely to have told you. You know why that is? Because a fetus is not a child. Can you imagine someone not telling you their 2 year old had died? No. Of course not. But miscarriages happen all the time. And couples don't tell people. Because a fetus is not a child. If you disagree with that, go debate it with the religious leaders and elderly people from EVERY cultural background possible. Because no culture I know of treats a fetus like a child. Do you have any idea how COMMON miscarriage is? I doubt you do. Because people don't talk about it. People often don't tell anyone outside of their parents. There is no religious requirement that a couple announce a miscarriage to their priest or congregation. Why? Because a fetus is not a child. People who think a fetus is a child are contradicting thousands of years of human cultural practices AND thousands of years of religious practices. And the Catholic Church's stance on abortion is utter hypocrisy considering its view on miscarriage. There is NO requirement in the Catholic Church that a miscarried fetus be treated as a child. So obviously, from a religious perspective, no child is considered to have existed, otherwise, a proper baptism and death service would absolutely be required in order to save that child's soul. But there is no requirement for that because A FETUS IS NOT A CHILD. I use the Catholic religion only as an example. Most other major religions also do NOT have any requirements around miscarriage. NONE. What does that say about how people have historically viewed a fetus?

SternSkipper -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 7:24:02 PM)
quote: quote: I'm not overlooking these things. I support women of every political and religious belief system in this. If conservative women want to whack their unborn, I'm fine with their decision to do it. I just actively encourage it among liberals. What child are we advocating anyone murder? Murder... : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought No one is committing murder. I'll tell yeah ... when Moses dropped that third tablet with the whole section on "Not Being An Asshole" it was one of THE all time biggest setbacks ever to the human race.

tweakabelle -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 7:57:47 PM)
The doctor's decision to disclose or not to disclose information will be not be made on health or professional grounds. This much is self evident. The decision will be made, one presumes, on ideological grounds. While the final decision will always belong to the mother, that decision will be made on the grounds of the available evidence. What evidence is available is clearly a product of ideology. In this instance, it seems undeniable that someone else's ideology is being imposed* on mothers and women. As the question of the mother's consent doesn't appear to arise when this decision is being made, it seems accurate to state that someone else's ideology is being forced on mothers and women. * "ideological" here includes religious beliefs.

tazzygirl -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 7:58:52 PM)
Hmmm.. a tip... see that word "Report" at the bottom of each post, other than your own? Its a wonderful feature. It sends a signal to the Moderators of this site that this is a post you have a problem with, and what that problem is. Then, they can look at that post and decide, in accordance with TOS and the rules, if that post is in violation or not. If it is, it will be yanked. If not, it will stand. My suggestion is simple... utilize that feature. Gamma has worked long and hard to clean up this section. Its once again a joy, (until recently, which is no reflection upon you specifically) to post here again. You have no control over what another user posts. You DO have control over what you post. Reducing yourself to a level you state you find "disney cartoon"ish is a bit beneath you. Attack the post.. not the poster.

tweakabelle -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 8:12:09 PM)
quote: I'm willing to say that I am an open advocate of several legalized forms of murder. This is where you are deluding yourself. There is no such thing as a "legalised form of murder". The phrase "legalized forms of murder" is a contradiction in terms. All murders are by definition illegal. If a death is caused by legal means, it is properly referred to as "justifiable homicide". For example, killing another person in self defence is not a form of murder, it is a justifiable homicide. If it is true that abortion causes the death of human being, as long as abortion is legal then that death is properly described as a "justifiable homicide". It is grossly deceptive to insist on calling such deaths as 'murder'

SadistDave -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/12/2012 8:13:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Attack the post.. not the poster. Good advice. I'll do a little self editing on that one. You are correct... Thank you. -SD-

Lucylastic -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/13/2012 10:40:40 AM)
FR regarding the bill about doctors not telling their patients important information There is a petition now for the AMA Call to Action: Tell the AMA to denounce Arizonas "wrongful birth" bill The Arizona Senate passed a bill this week that gives doctors a free pass to not inform pregnant women of prenatal problems because such information "could" lead to abortion. We, the undersigned, respectfully ask the American Medical Association to publicly denounce this, and any future legislation, that promotes and/or suggests legal allowances for physicians to withhold pertinent medical information as a means to control, guide, or dissuade a patient from choosing a legally available course of treatment. We request this on the basis that this legislation is in direct disharmony with the following sections of the AMA Code of Ethics. Opinion 10.015 - The Patient-Physician RelationshipOpinion 10.01 - Fundamental Elements of the Patient-Physician Relationship http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/medical-ethics/code-medical-ethics.page? http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/speakupamericanmedicalassociation/ Ive tweeted and facebooked too, this social media thing is brilliant for getting info out eh?

Lucylastic -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/13/2012 10:54:01 AM)
This from an article in politico Take Texas. Gov. Rick Perry and the 80 percent male state Legislature. They said they would forgo $35 million in federal funding to keep Planned Parenthood from getting one dime of it. Eleven Planned Parenthood clinics have shut down. This comes even though Texas already bars clinics that take such money from performing abortions. After an uproar, Perry has since said that Texas will find the money “somewhere” for these clinics — but the Legislature has already cut the budget for care from $111 million to $38 million this year. It’s estimated the cuts would lead to 400,000 women losing health care services. This could mean 20,500 additional births because of lost access to contraception — costing the state $57 million in maternity bills.

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/13/2012 11:10:57 AM)
Thank you, I will do the same quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic FR regarding the bill about doctors not telling their patients important information There is a petition now for the AMA Call to Action: Tell the AMA to denounce Arizonas "wrongful birth" bill The Arizona Senate passed a bill this week that gives doctors a free pass to not inform pregnant women of prenatal problems because such information "could" lead to abortion. We, the undersigned, respectfully ask the American Medical Association to publicly denounce this, and any future legislation, that promotes and/or suggests legal allowances for physicians to withhold pertinent medical information as a means to control, guide, or dissuade a patient from choosing a legally available course of treatment. We request this on the basis that this legislation is in direct disharmony with the following sections of the AMA Code of Ethics. Opinion 10.015 - The Patient-Physician RelationshipOpinion 10.01 - Fundamental Elements of the Patient-Physician Relationship http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/medical-ethics/code-medical-ethics.page? http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/speakupamericanmedicalassociation/ Ive tweeted and facebooked too, this social media thing is brilliant for getting info out eh?

kalikshama -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/13/2012 11:52:20 AM)
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/speakupamericanmedicalassociation/ Signed, thanks for the link!

Hillwilliam -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/13/2012 11:59:09 AM)
Actually, the topic is a bit misnamed. There is no GOP war on women. The war is on POOR women. The wealthy will always be able to afford birth control and if it fails, there's always a doctor willing to diagnose some unspecified "Female Problems" that can be treated quickly with an in-office "D&C". No fetus or pregnancy tests need to be mentioned in the official medical records, do they? wink wink. Face it, it's the way things were done for decades.

Lucylastic -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/13/2012 12:15:38 PM)
very true

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Nope, there is no GOP "war on women". (3/13/2012 12:21:45 PM)
I think the topic is aptly named. What this bill does is deny information. Wealthy or poor, the result may well be that a woman delivers a baby with health conditions that had the woman known about, she might have chosen to abort. No amount of money in the world will solve that problem quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Actually, the topic is a bit misnamed. There is no GOP war on women. The war is on POOR women. The wealthy will always be able to afford birth control and if it fails, there's always a doctor willing to diagnose some unspecified "Female Problems" that can be treated quickly with an in-office "D&C". No fetus or pregnancy tests need to be mentioned in the official medical records, do they? wink wink. Face it, it's the way things were done for decades.

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