quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Maybe the kid should have done the smart thing and waited for the police to show up instead of running.

Let's see, someone with a badge and a gun stops this kid.
Kid runs.
Kid gets caught.
Kid beats the shit out of the guy who has the badge and the gun. (Yeah... the kid was winning the fight...)
Kid gets shot.

Tea and skittles don't have a damned thing to do with this. If the kid would have just said "Okay, I'll wait for the police to sort this out.", it would have diffused the whole situation before it even started. The cops would have verified that his father lives in the gated, secured community that he was visiting. If the kid wasn't mentally retarded, then his parents need to take some responsibility for raising such a foolish child. Whats heartbreaking about this is that if they had done their jobs as parents and taught their child some sense their son would probably be alive today.

-SD-

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

Florida is full of rent a cops, a badge doesn't mean shit - anybody can carry a gun pretty much, its easier to get a concealed carry permit than a drivers license, and hardly anybody even checks for for the permit, but all that guy was authorized to do was call 911, a carry permit does not mean you can shoot anybody you want, no matter what kind of crackerjack wanna be cop you are.

If that kid had been a criminal, that watch captain would have gotten his face blown right the fuck off.

quote:


NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH isn't a 'badge'. It's a joke.

I don't know about you, but when I'm being MUGGED, I fight back.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH isn't a 'badge'. It's a joke.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I can't read the initial link but, I'm getting the gist of what is going on.

Let's look at WWB:

When I was groing up in NYC in the 70s it was common place for a kid who looks white (me) that also dated his fair share of ladies of color to get stopped for walking through a "black neighborhood".

It wasn't because the police were anti-interracial dating. In law enforcement, one of the best tools we have to be pro-active is to be aware; be observant. This was especially helpful when there was still foot patrols going on and some communities are getting back to neighborhood-based policing.

Be observant ... is there anything that looks different, today? Hmmmm usually that convenience store is open by 0600. It's 0620. Is Jimmy late? Let me go try the door.

Be observant ... this neighborhood is almost entirely black. What's that white kid doing here? Let's go ask him.

It's a case of what is "out of place", today as opposed to other days. That is not to suggest that anyone doesn't have the right to be somewhere; just that it's different.

People, to a large extent are creatures of habit. Since neighborhoods are comprised of people, they run on something of a "schedule", also. Mrs. Smith always pulls out of her driveway between 0720 and 0730 to take little Janey to school. It's 0750. Why is the car still in the driveway? Let's go knock on the door.

Police departments were never set up to be anything but an after-the-fact agency. Yet, today, we have charged them with being "pro-active". It's tough to do that without treading - just a bit - on personal liberties. I used to get pissed as hell at the cops that used to stop me in Hunt's Point because they thought I was there to cop dope. Once they realized I was dating a young lady that lived there and that I never had dope (or much money) in my pockets, I became "part of the neighborhood" and was left alone.

In this case, we're not talking about a LEO but a "block watch" type thing? This is a common problem when non-professionals get involved.

He had good instincts about something being "different" but he was scared shitless, which is why he brought the gun with him, when he exited the vehicle.

He knew enough to call the police but didn't respect their authority enough to do as they instructed. He was a cowboy and like most cowboys, his day is done. 'Twas ever thus.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH isn't a 'badge'. It's a joke.

Well, some kids dead because he thought the same idiotic thing. Ha ha! Funny joke!

-SD-

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
How can Zimmerman claim "Self defense" when he (against the orders of the police) initiated the fatal encounter?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
How can Zimmerman claim "Self defense" when he (against the orders of the police) initiated the fatal encounter?

The police have already answered this. The instructions from the dispatcher do not constitute orders from a police officer. They said the dispatcher wasn't there and can only advise based on information present at the time.

If the shooter felt threatened in some way, then the shooting is justified. As they teach in CHL classes, only the shooter need feel threatened. He doesn't have to justify how or why he felt threatened. And he doesn't need permission from someone on the phone to feel threatened. When defending yourself, you need only fear for your life. It doesn't matter if someone else in a similar situation would not fear for their life. It only matters if the shooter feared for his life at the time of the shooting.

And since no one else was even present at the time, it's pretty hard to dispute whether or not he felt threatened. It's funny to me how the media likes to repeat how the kid had "skittles and an iced tea" yet they love to gloss over the fact that it was after dark and it was raining. There'd have been no way to tell what he was holding.

I had a guy come sprinting up to me in a parking lot after dark once. Had I been armed at the time, he'd have been dead. When I first saw the guy, I took a defensive posture and prepared for a fight. It was only when he got close and into the light that I learned he wasn't trying to rob or assault me, but was just someone looking to mooch money off me (which is roughly similar, except that it's more of a request). Even still, sprinting up to someone in a dark parking lot is a bad idea no matter what your motives. At that moment, I felt threatened. And had I shot the guy, no one could have questioned how I felt at. that. moment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray

So if we are to believe Zimmerman, the shooter in the Trayvon Martin case:

There was a scary looking kid in his gated community. The kid was black, and we can only assume his was being black intentionally, to scare the residents. Zimmerman then called police to tell them there was a scary looking black, wreaking havoc by existing in public. The police said, "Don't approach him" but he did anyway, because as we all know if someone is a dangerous, the best thing to do is to go over and start an argument.

Strangely enough a fight ensued. The black kid Trayvon, who was black, blackishly attacked Zimmerman brandishing an Arizona Ice Tea and Skittles, two weapons commonly used by the gangs in Compton and Oakland. Trayvon weighed an intimidating 140 pounds, whereas Zimmerman stood a meager 240 pounds. So brutal was his 140 pound attack that Zimmerman had no choice but to shoot him in the chest, killing him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
There is no dispute that the walker never approached or came close the vehicle. There is no dispute that the guy exited his vehicle and pursued the walker. The shooting happened far away from the vehicle.

Your story and your reference to what is taught in CHL classes have as much do to with what happened in this case as opera does to a basketball game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

[You keep using the word "kid." Judging from the photo the media likes to keep showing, the "kid" was a football player.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Maybe by FL law althought I lived there for 18 years and I can tell you that it isn't self defense unless he is trying to get into your car or house unless they changed the law since '96.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
My assessment of the situation is this. Zimmerman was in a car. The shooting occurred a good distance away from his car. The ONLY way it was self defense is if the kid broke into the car, dragged Zimmerman (who weighs 240 to the kid's 140) out and halfway down the street and then got shot. How likely is that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
As for the dispatcher not being an LEO, (remember he called the non emergency number and so got a police dispatcher). In TN and FL, the dispatcher is an LEO. Maybe not in TX but they are where Ive lived.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Maybe your CHL in TX says you just have to feel threatened. If you try that in TN, you'll find yourself making license plates for 10 years. If you wish, I can supply links.

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ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror
But of course the story doesn't have legs unless they keep saying "the kid" or "he shot a kid."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

[You keep using the word "kid." Judging from the photo the media likes to keep showing, the "kid" was a football player.

He weighed 140#. Zimmerman weighs 240.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
the shooter left his vehicle ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray

So if we are to believe Zimmerman, the shooter in the Trayvon Martin case:

There was a scary looking kid in his gated community. The kid was black, and we can only assume his was being black intentionally, to scare the residents. Zimmerman then called police to tell them there was a scary looking black, wreaking havoc by existing in public. The police said, "Don't approach him" but he did anyway, because as we all know if someone is a dangerous, the best thing to do is to go over and start an argument.

Strangely enough a fight ensued. The black kid Trayvon, who was black, blackishly attacked Zimmerman brandishing an Arizona Ice Tea and Skittles, two weapons commonly used by the gangs in Compton and Oakland. Trayvon weighed an intimidating 140 pounds, whereas Zimmerman stood a meager 240 pounds. So brutal was his 140 pound attack that Zimmerman had no choice but to shoot him in the chest, killing him.

You keep using the word "kid." Judging from the photo the media likes to keep showing, the "kid" was a football player. I knew many "kids" on my football team in high school who would make *anyone* fear for their lives in the dark. Those "kids" were *huge*.

But of course the story doesn't have legs unless they keep saying "the kid" or "he shot a kid." If they got someone the same size as this "kid" and showed him on a darkened street in the rain, many would go "oh yeah...that's scary looking alright." But of course if they do that, the story's got no legs. And that doesn't make for good sensational journalism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray
Seriously? That's what you're going with? HE WAS ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY POUNDS!!!!! Zimmerman had a 100-pound advantage on him! Look at all of his pictures. We're not exactly dealing with DMX here. Some people might say "oh yeah... that's scary looking alright." But those people are bigots.