RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea...

RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/16/2012 11:38:10 AM)
Is Zimmerman a Rat?

Hillwilliam -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/16/2012 1:52:48 PM)
Fargle, as much as I think Zimmerman is an idiot, I think you're possibly getting into tinfoil hat territory. Zim will quite possibly rue the day he learned to shoot. I checked FL law to see if it is like TN law. Even if the police say it was justified, there's the civil side. I'd say that the kid's parents have every sleazebag in wingtips this side of miami beating on their door. The prob is with civil, the burden of proof is on the defendant, not the accuser as it is in criminal. I look for an indictment also.

SadistDave -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/16/2012 2:22:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Dave. I'm gonna change your mind about who was at fault. Zimmerman is Hispanic. You wouldn't think so with a Germanic last name he is. Doesn't change a thing. This "Walking While Black" bullshit doesn't fly. His family lives in this upper-middle class GATED, SECURE, COMMUNITY. I haven't been able to find numbers on the racial diversity of this little slice of paradise, but I've taken the time to look at the 7 minute sales video put out by The Retreat at the Lakes (the community in question). This is not the sort of neighborhood where you walk around looking like a gang-banger. From the few pictures I've been able to find of Trayvon without his hoodie, he does not appear to have dressed like one normally, so maybe the hoodie was more out of place than we are being led to believe. I'm a white guy, and I would look suspicious in that neighborhood because of the way I dress. Someone walking slowly in the rain in a hoodie would definitely look out of place there enough to be considered suspicious. Okay, the parents claim he wore the hoodie because it was cold. So it was cold and raining and here is a teenage kid in a hoodie walking slowly? Slowly? A chicken has a brain the size of a nickle, but even a chicken has enough sense to run for shelter in a cold rain. I would be suspicious of someone walking slowly in a cold rain too. There are claims that complaints have been made about Zimmerman to the police, but the Home Owners Association has never heard about them. The police will not discuss these alleged complaints because there is an ongoing investigation. The same reason they won't release the 911 tapes. But lets be fair and say that Zimmerman was the biggest douchebag in the neighborhood and this is all some big fat racist cover-up... I still blame the parents for not protecting their son from this alleged loose cannon. If they already knew this Zimmerman guy was so unpredictable, they should have done more to protect him or taught him how to deal with the guy without getting in an altercation. I'm also still looking for information on what George Zimmerman does for a living. The police say they "respect" his back-ground and he was able to have 2 arrests expunged from his record. The police don't seem to have a problem with the fact that he carried a gun, so the gun was carried legally. Zimmerman has his story, which apparently the police are unable to refute because of a lack of evidence. But what I find extremely interesting is the article I found today about the release of the tapes. By all accounts since day 1, Zimmerman has been cooperating with police. Buried in the story that they are releasing the 911 and non-emergency tapes today, we find out now, that the family has been so uncooperative with the police that they had to be subpoena'd to give the police physical evidence about the case. I find it extremely interesting that the family who has claimed that their son is some kind of innocent in all of this were not eager to provide evidence backing that up. What was the family trying to hide about Trayvon Martins activities? -SD-

Hillwilliam -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/16/2012 3:11:22 PM)
Personally, If I had a kid chased down and shot and the guy who did it wasn't arrested, I wouldn't be very cooperative either. I lived in miami for 18 years. It is one of the most corrupt places in the country for our gentlemen in blue to0 go play. Where I am now has some great guys and gals on the force but in miami, NOONE trusted the cops. It didn't matter if you were white, black, brown or green. FL in general has a rep for less than honest LEO's. If I were the parents, I'd 'Lawyer up' and do about the same thing.

SadistDave -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/16/2012 3:28:19 PM)
Let me get this straight... If someone murdered your innocent child you would hide evidence that might at least prove he was being harassed by the man who murdered him at the time he was killed? You would refuse to give up the evidence that might cast doubt on his killers story? You would make it harder, not easier to have justice served against the man who killed your child? Really...? -SD-

fucktoyprincess -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/16/2012 3:57:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave Let me get this straight... If someone murdered your innocent child you would hide evidence that might at least prove he was being harassed by the man who murdered him at the time he was killed? You would refuse to give up the evidence that might cast doubt on his killers story? You would make it harder, not easier to have justice served against the man who killed your child? Really...? -SD- Yes, because by your own approach to this case, the family in question, are "suspicious" and therefore could be gunned down by anyone with a gun.

Fightdirecto -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/16/2012 3:58:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave Let me get this straight... If someone murdered your innocent child you would hide evidence that might at least prove he was being harassed by the man who murdered him at the time he was killed? You would refuse to give up the evidence that might cast doubt on his killers story? You would make it harder, not easier to have justice served against the man who killed your child? Really...? -SD- As Hillwilliam wrote, Miami cops are not known for their honesty and the purity of their actions when dealing with non-Caucasians and well-connected Hispanics. There have been allegations, for example, that under similar circumstances, some Miami cops would bring the victim's family in for questioning and then proceed to coerce them with threats of violence or actual violence to exonerate their son's killer, since their son's killer is a quasi-cop and deserving of the protection of the Blue Wall of Immunity. Similar things were quite common in my home town of Philadelphia, PA when I was growing up. Back in 1959, a man who lived on my city block filed a complaint against a local cop with the Philadelphia Police Internal Affairs department. The next day, the local cop's supervisor came to the family's house and told them that, if they did not drop the complaint, he would come back and kill them. My neighbor went to Mr. Beneditto, who was a made man for the Angelo Bruno Mafia Family and lived on the next city block - and the cop and his supervisor were fished out of the Delaware River several days later. No one was ever arrested or tried for the death of the two policemen - in part because Angelo Bruno had most of the Philadelphia police department on his payroll. When things like that are common knowledge, you can imagine that no one, innocent or not, would voluntarily go into a police station to be questioned without "lawyering up" first. Based on my experiences as a child with cops, I know that I would never go into a police station, innocent or guilty, without my lawyer and also without having nude photos taken immediately prior in case I needed them to prove I was healthy and undamaged before the police "interrogated" me.

Hillwilliam -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/16/2012 4:13:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave Let me get this straight... If someone murdered your innocent child you would hide evidence that might at least prove he was being harassed by the man who murdered him at the time he was killed? You would refuse to give up the evidence that might cast doubt on his killers story? You would make it harder, not easier to have justice served against the man who killed your child? Really...? -SD- Im saying that if the Orlando PD is ANYTHING like Metro-Dade PD, I wouldn't go anywhere near the station for questioning without a lawyer present. Know what's really sick? I trained some of the guys on Metro PD SWAT in advanced hand to hand. I KNOW that some of them are scum. With some police departments, you NEVER want to get into a he said/she said situation.

SadistDave -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/16/2012 4:15:29 PM)
Well, apparently I am the only person in the world whose experience with LEO has always been positive. But then apparently It's rare to value of honesty, since the responses about personal experiences all seem to be from people who think dishonesty and covering up evidence is the best way to deal with the police. What a pathetic view of the world liberals have... Frankly, it's always been my experience that if you are honest with LEOs and treat them with respect they are almost always willing to do their best for you. -SD-

Hillwilliam -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/16/2012 4:21:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave Well, apparently I am the only person in the world whose experience with LEO has always been positive. But then apparently It's rare to value of honesty, since the responses about personal experiences all seem to be from people who think dishonesty and covering up evidence is the best way to deal with the police. What a pathetic view of the world liberals have... Frankly, it's always been my experience that if you are honest with LEOs and treat them with respect they are almost always willing to do their best for you. -SD- As I said in an earlier post, the LEO's in my town are a really nice professional bunch. Google "Miami River Cops" some time and if you're an LEO, be prepared to be truly disgusted. Drug dealing, murder for profit, murder for hire. You name it. They were a criminal gang in the 80's who specialized in intercepting cocaine shipments, murdering the couriers and selling the drugs themselves. It wasn't just a few either. There were approximately 100 of them and every one had a badge.

farglebargle -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/16/2012 5:00:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave Let me get this straight... If someone murdered your innocent child you would hide evidence that might at least prove he was being harassed by the man who murdered him at the time he was killed? You would refuse to give up the evidence that might cast doubt on his killers story? You would make it harder, not easier to have justice served against the man who killed your child? Really...? -SD- The system is working as designed. I certainly hope that in their grief they don't do anything like offer a bounty to the Mafia, Russian Mafia, Cuban Mafia, Hells Angels, Bloods, Crips, and all other comers for this guy and his family to just mysteriously disappear. That would be totally wrong, but I can't say it wouldn't be something a lot of people might be sympathetic to.

DarqueMirror -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/16/2012 8:54:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VioletGray LoL So every single point that I've made you've mentally scribbled over with a sharpie and wrote, "because they're both black." If the card fits, throw it, right? quote: ORIGINAL: VioletGray You "don't care" why they have weight divisions in martial arts? That's really what you're going with? Yep. You're talking about a sport in a ring with rules, regulations and sponsors. I'm talking about on the street where anything goes. And I'm talking about on the street where smaller guys have beat up bigger, heavier guys regularly. Don't believe it? Look it up on YouTube. quote: ORIGINAL: VioletGray Dude, those guys who can choke out guys several times their size have at LEAST a decade of training under their belts. You've really just proven my point for me. In an environment where people train to fight full time, they have seperate weight divisions because they understand that when two people have the same training, the heavier guy has the advantage. There's a saying in boxing : " a lightweight's powerpunch is a heavyweight's jab." I trained in Kuoshu and Japanese martial arts, my mom is a 5th degree black belt, I I'm willing to say I have at least SOME knowledge of the subject! When two guys each with decades of training meet, that is why they need weight divisions. And it's you who just proved my point for me. Unless of course you think that I, with hardly any training at all, can kick your mom's ass with her black belt. Of course it doesn't matter if you agree or not, the eye-witness accounts speak for themselves. Unless of course you think Zimmerman bloodied his own nose and head.

DarqueMirror -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/16/2012 9:03:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam If said guy starts yelling and pulls a gun what do you do? Do you hang around and 'reason' with him or do you try to make yourself a distant fast moving target? If the same guy catches you, do you lay there and whimper or do you use hands, feet and teeth and whatever else is handy to try to do unto him first? You also like to make my points for me I see. Apparently, the gun wasn't out at the time Zimmerman was "following" Martin or else, by your own admission here, Martin would have ran straight home. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam For all we know, the young man WAS trying to get home and tell his parents about the watch captains actions as you suggested he do. He didn't make it. And since you've got no evidence of that, kinda makes it hard to prove, don't it? quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam I checked FL Law. You can't pursue and use deadly force. My TN instructor made if abundantly clear that if you do, you WILL go to jail unless you can show imminent physical danger to a third party. Pursuing and following at a distance are two very different things. Even the Florida cops have said this. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Ive asked you twice to show me in TX law where you can pursue and use deadly force to prevent suspected property crime. You have not done so. Because I've never claimed that you can. So there's no need to show you links on something I haven't claimed. What I have claimed is what the cops in this case have said. Following the kid wasn't a crime. The crime occured when the fight broke out. And since being followed isn't a crime, whoever started the fight was the aggressor. And once again, since no one saw who started the fight, it's kinda hard to prove it was Zimmerman.

erieangel -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/16/2012 9:23:56 PM)
I know this much. A young black male was walking in a neighborhood where he wasn't well-known and therefore was seen as "not belonging". The young black male ended up dead, gun shot to his chest. I live in a pre-dominately black neighborhood, that includes a lot of rental property which means I never know everybody. Yet, my son and I will walk the streets of our neighborhood at all hours. We are never afraid. Not even the time when somebody came pounding on the door at 2:30 in the morning. The guy was young, 22-23, beaten and drunk and lost. We opened the door to him, listened to his story about having been mugged around the corner and called the police who took his statement and then drove him to the hospital to get a few stitches across his brow. A couple of days later, he found my house, came knocking to thank us for the help and said nobody else in the neighborhood would help him. He is black, I'm white and yet my black neighbors wouldn't help a young man.

Hillwilliam -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/16/2012 10:06:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam If said guy starts yelling and pulls a gun what do you do? Do you hang around and 'reason' with him or do you try to make yourself a distant fast moving target? If the same guy catches you, do you lay there and whimper or do you use hands, feet and teeth and whatever else is handy to try to do unto him first? You also like to make my points for me I see. Apparently, the gun wasn't out at the time Zimmerman was "following" Martin or else, by your own admission here, Martin would have ran straight home. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam For all we know, the young man WAS trying to get home and tell his parents about the watch captains actions as you suggested he do. He didn't make it. And since you've got no evidence of that, kinda makes it hard to prove, don't it? quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam I checked FL Law. You can't pursue and use deadly force. My TN instructor made if abundantly clear that if you do, you WILL go to jail unless you can show imminent physical danger to a third party. Pursuing and following at a distance are two very different things. Even the Florida cops have said this. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Ive asked you twice to show me in TX law where you can pursue and use deadly force to prevent suspected property crime. You have not done so. Because I've never claimed that you can. So there's no need to show you links on something I haven't claimed. What I have claimed is what the cops in this case have said. Following the kid wasn't a crime. The crime occured when the fight broke out. And since being followed isn't a crime, whoever started the fight was the aggressor. And once again, since no one saw who started the fight, it's kinda hard to prove it was Zimmerman. "Apparently the gun wasnt out" Says who BULSHIT You show evidence he wasn't just trying to get home or STFU there is NO evidence that Zimmerman didn't displey immediately. If you get out of a car and pursue to contact, that isnt called 'following at a distance. Even the stupidest know that. Ive now asked you THREE times to show where even in TX his actione would be legan and guess what.............nuthin. Put up or shut up Quit watching Charles Bronson flicks from 30 years ago. You are the exact person that concealed carry laws try to eliminate.

DarqueMirror -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 2:33:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam "Apparently the gun wasnt out" Says who BULSHIT You show evidence he wasn't just trying to get home or STFU there is NO evidence that Zimmerman didn't displey immediately. So you're now admittng your own logic doesn't hold up? Interesting. See, you made it very clear a few posts ago that if someone was approaching you with a gun, you'd run like hell. And if that person caught up to you, you'd fight. So are you now saying you believe this "140 lbs kid" did not run in a similar situation? Well I don't know about you, but if I was "waving a gun around" and someone ran toward me instead of away from me, I'd definitely feel threatened, as that person would have to be insane. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam If you get out of a car and pursue to contact, that isnt called 'following at a distance. Even the stupidest know that. I'd love to see your evidence that he "pursued to contact," instead of just to keep an eye on Martin. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Ive now asked you THREE times to show where even in TX his actione would be legan and guess what.............nuthin. Tell you what, since you can't read too well: you show me where I stated what you're claiming I stated, and I'll go look up a link for it. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam You are the exact person that concealed carry laws try to eliminate. That's funny since I'm CHL qualified.

joether -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 3:11:02 AM)
DarqueMirror, I get this impression that your giving Mr. Zimmerman the 'innocent until proven guilty' bit. Which is fine up to a point. A person holding a smoking gun over a dead body isn't exactly placing Mr. Zimmerman in a justifable position. We only have his word and the information the forsenic team can determine. Still, his story just seems strange for someone that would be a neighborhood watch person of any decent caliber. He notified police from the satefy of his home. Than pursued the individual both in a car and by foot. Why? Doesnt that seem just a BIT odd to do? It just sounds like Mr. Zimmerman is trying to make himself out to be some kind of local hero. Unfortunately, the story he's giving doesnt seem to sound convincing. On the other hand, Mr. Martin in your posts starts off 'Guilty until proven Innocent'. Dont you think that's odd too? That the white guy is innocent but the black guy is guilty in 'your book'? Even though there is no evidence that shows Mr. Martin was guilty of anything except 'wrong time, wrong place'? quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam If you get out of a car and pursue to contact, that isnt called 'following at a distance. Even the stupidest know that. I'd love to see your evidence that he "pursued to contact," instead of just to keep an eye on Martin. If what you say is true, than how did the fist fight take place that would eventually lead to Mr. Zimmerman shooting Mr. Martin? How many fist fights have you seen that take place when both combatants are beyond 30 paces from each other? Maybe in an anima but not real life! Either Mr. Martin closed the gap with Mr. Zimmerman, or more likely, Mr. Zimmerman closed the gap as Mr. Martin tried to ignore him and keep walking to his dad's house. Either way, they were within a few paces of each other. We dont have any solid information as to what might have been spoken. We have the words of Mr. Zimmerman only; whom is the ONLY suspect in the killing. And he doesnt have a very good credible background with the law. So yes, this case should have been examined with a 'fine tooth comb' not the lame 'once over' the police did.

GrandPoobah -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 4:09:06 AM)
Late today the various 9-1-1 tapes were released. I didn't see any posts here that indicate people had read about them or heard them, so I'll toss in a couple of things that are on the tapes. First, the tape of Zimmerman's call clearly indicates that he told the dispatcher the kid was moving along, and the dispatcher told him not to pursue. That's not a "legal order" in any sense, but it indicates he wasn't about to ignore the situation and let the police (who were already responding) take care of it. Second, more than one other caller speaks of hearing a gunshot...someone screaming as if threatened...and then another gunshot. Some of those shots and screams can be heard on the tapes. Third, although it's not directly related to the tapes, there seems to be some "evidence" that Mr Zimmerman has some past issues within the legal system. Since the reports are incomplete, and in some cases contradictory, I'll just leave it at that for now rather than repeat something that may not be accurate. So...in summary, it appears as if the kid was (possibly) pleading for his life when he was shot. That's hardly the basis for self defense. If Zimmerman pulled his gun early on, it wouldn't be too surprising if the kid ran (which some reports suggest he did). In short, this is pretty ugly, and getting uglier by the minute. I'm not certain where the criminal case might go...although I would certainly expect charges to be filed given what's coming out. However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if a wrongful death civil suit was filed...and the verdict there is based upon "preponderance of the evidence" and not "beyond a reasonably doubt." Zimmerman will lose that one, especially if the stories about prior issues are somewhat accurate.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 4:30:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror You keep using the word "kid." Judging from the photo the media likes to keep showing, the "kid" was a football player. I knew many "kids" on my football team in high school who would make anyone fear for their lives in the dark. Those "kids" were huge. Yeah, right, a 140 pound football player. What position you think he plays? Waterboy? What a profoundly stupid statement.

farglebargle -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 4:56:04 AM)
There's plenty of positions a fast kid could fill on a football team. Pretty much any receiver who needs to OUTRUN tackles, it's a benefit. That said, looks like the florida law doesn't grant immunity if you're the attacker, and since Zimmerman was told to lay back, and he's been trained to lay back, he made the CHOICE to break the advice given by the 9-11 operator AND his training, so "self-defense" doesn't apply. ESPECIALLY since the two little boo-boos which didn't need even a trip to the hospital, ain't going to come to the level of an threat requiring force, much less deadly force. The real fun is going to start when all that indistinct yelling on the 9-11 tapes is washed clean by forensic audiologists and we can hear the entire exchange. Who wants to bet there's a gunshot, the victim pleading for his life, and then a coup-de-grace?

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