RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea...

RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (Full Version)

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Hippiekinkster -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 5:18:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VioletGray LoL So every single point that I've made you've mentally scribbled over with a sharpie and wrote, "because they're both black." Zimmerman has a history of being aggressive, people have complained about his tactics before, he's even assaulted a cop, but you find it easier to believe that I suspect him because the victim and I are both black. I do believe that on some subconscious level you know that your reasoning doesn't hold up, and the baseless accusation that I support Trayvon because we're both black is easier for you to come to terms with. That's just fucking loathsome, isn't it? I should have put this #&%*$?! Texass bad boy on ignore a long time ago. Disgusting.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 5:28:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Is Zimmerman a Rat? Dog DAMN that is an interesting question... just why WAS a drugPig the first one on the scene? Somethin' seriously stinks in Sandord, sure as shit s'not the smelly sauerkraut.

xssve -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 5:47:33 AM)
Neighborhood watch volunteers expressly do not have police powers, are not supposed to be armed, and are only authorized to observe and report.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 6:04:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave Doesn't change a thing. This "Walking While Black" bullshit doesn't fly. His family lives in this upper-middle class GATED, SECURE, COMMUNITY. I haven't been able to find numbers on the racial diversity of this little slice of paradise, but I've taken the time to look at the 7 minute sales video put out by The Retreat at the Lakes (the community in question). This is not the sort of neighborhood where you walk around looking like a gang-banger. From the few pictures I've been able to find of Trayvon without his hoodie, he does not appear to have dressed like one normally, so maybe the hoodie was more out of place than we are being led to believe. Yeah, gated. The walls around that complex are at least six feet high. So, what, the kid decided to jump the wall, and then casually stroll around in the rain? Black kids jump the walls of gated complexes and then saunter on down the sidewalk in the rain a lot where you live? Upper Middle Class? $96,900 is Upper Middle Class where you live? Where the fuck do you live, Albania? quote: I'm a white guy No shit quote: , and I would look suspicious in that neighborhood because of the way I dress. Clown suits do stand out. quote: Someone walking slowly in the rain in a hoodie would definitely look out of place there enough to be considered suspicious. Okay, the parents claim he wore the hoodie because it was cold. So it was cold and raining and here is a teenage kid in a hoodie walking slowly? Slowly? A chicken has a brain the size of a nickle, but even a chicken has enough sense to run for shelter in a cold rain. I would be suspicious of someone walking slowly in a cold rain too. Yeah, gee, I wear a hoodie when it's cool here, and if it's raining, I put the hood up. I'm 58. All kinds of people wear hoodies. I reckon only black criminals wear them in Albania, eh? And how would YOU know that the young man was walking slowly. Because Barney Fife said so? He's already proven to be a lying anal fistula. And even if he WAS walking "slowly", so what? Maybe he was thinking. Maybe he was in no hurry to get back. This is just profoundly stupid, AND just a weeee bit racist. quote: There are claims that complaints have been made about Zimmerman to the police, but the Home Owners Association has never heard about them. The police will not discuss these alleged complaints because there is an ongoing investigation. The same reason they won't release the 911 tapes. But lets be fair and say that Zimmerman was the biggest douchebag in the neighborhood and this is all some big fat racist cover-up... I still blame the parents for not protecting their son from this alleged loose cannon. If they already knew this Zimmerman guy was so unpredictable, they should have done more to protect him or taught him how to deal with the guy without getting in an altercation. Fucking unbelievable. Assuming the parents knew that Barney Fife was a shitstain. And then you blame the kid's parents... for whet? Not providing an armed escort? Not driving him to the store? Not anticipating that some sick fuck pig wannabe might shoot him? The rest of your drivel isn't gonna take up any more of my time. "People" like you don't have anything to say that I am remotely interested in reading. The hide button is a wonderful feature. I can skip entirely the jackalshit and go directly to a worthwhile post.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 6:15:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle There's plenty of positions a fast kid could fill on a football team. Pretty much any receiver who needs to OUTRUN tackles, it's a benefit. That said, looks like the florida law doesn't grant immunity if you're the attacker, and since Zimmerman was told to lay back, and he's been trained to lay back, he made the CHOICE to break the advice given by the 9-11 operator AND his training, so "self-defense" doesn't apply. ESPECIALLY since the two little boo-boos which didn't need even a trip to the hospital, ain't going to come to the level of an threat requiring force, much less deadly force. The real fun is going to start when all that indistinct yelling on the 9-11 tapes is washed clean by forensic audiologists and we can hear the entire exchange. Who wants to bet there's a gunshot, the victim pleading for his life, and then a coup-de-grace? Yeah, well, whatshisface is trying to make the kid look like he was fuckin' Lawrence Taylor.

xssve -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 6:39:10 AM)
I keep telling my nephew to pull his damn pants up and straighten his ball cap or they're gonna think he's black. Redneck uniform down there is jeans and a flannel shirt, untucked, in any kind of weather, and unbuttoned if it's raining, or was when I lived there, though that was many years ago, and as I said, my nephew moved here from Florida, 'bout the same area I was living, and he dresses like a gangster, they all do nowadays. Basically, all I'm hearing from the rednecks through this whole thing is: "if he's Black, fear of ones life is always justifiable" - even if he's half your size, half your age, you're the one unlawfully attacking. Now it's: "you can chase down and shoot anybody wearing a sweatshirt". Which is defending vigilantism, pure and simple, and all you gotta do is be black - disturbing, but not surprising. Try running that by NAPO or IACP. If anything it legally justifies shooting you if you try this shit at home. Wasn't it Texas where that Pizza delivery guy was executed?

Hillwilliam -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 7:59:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror So you're now admittng your own logic doesn't hold up? Interesting. See, you made it very clear a few posts ago that if someone was approaching you with a gun, you'd run like hell. And if that person caught up to you, you'd fight. So are you now saying you believe this "140 lbs kid" did not run in a similar situation? Well I don't know about you, but if I was "waving a gun around" and someone ran toward me instead of away from me, I'd definitely feel threatened, as that person would have to be insane. I'd love to see your evidence that he "pursued to contact," instead of just to keep an eye on Martin. Tell you what, since you can't read too well: you show me where I stated what you're claiming I stated, and I'll go look up a link for it. That's funny since I'm CHL qualified. How am I admitting my logic doesnt hold up? the shooting took place 'some distance from the car' Did they fucking TELEPORT? Either Zimmerman pursued him or the kid dragged him out of the car and down the street? As for "pursued to contact" Zim was in the car. The fight and death occurred some distance away. How do you get there without PURSUING as he had been told not to do by the dispatcher. You've claimed ceveral times to be CHL qualified. It's a shame but a few always slip thru the cracks. Some of the various 911 tapes are being released and they appear to dispute Zim's story. Bottom line. It isn't self defense if you chase someone down. When someone runs away, you have defended yourself.

Edwynn -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 9:52:20 AM)
On the tape of Zimmerman's 911 call, about half way through it you can hear the door of the SUV slam, then onset of wind/air in the cell phone speaker, which prompts the dispatcher to ask "Are you following him?", Zimmerman; "yeah," disp,; "OK, we don't need you to do that," Zimm.; "OK," but obviously ignores as he continues pursuit. Earlier in the tape Zimmerman gives confusing and conflicting account of what Martin is doing, as if creating in his mind a justification for pursuing. "He's looking around, looking at all the houses," contrasting with "He's just staring," "He's checking me out," "He's coming towards me," He's heading towards the clubhouse," etc. In any case, not many teenagers I know of walk with the greatest sense of purpose, and most walkers of any age, myself included, "look around at all the houses" when on a walk. Knowing Zimmerman's history, and knowing how teenagers normally proceed, it's obvious to me there was nothing the least bit 'suspicious' about Martin in his wandering manner, and that Zimmerman created in his own mind a scenario to justify his actions. In any case, this is definitive proof against DM's and Zimmerman's father's assertion that Zimmerman was not pursuing. Not being forensic audio experts ourselves, we cannot discern who is doing the yelling on the next tape where the shot is heard, but safe to say that will soon be determined.

subrob1967 -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 3:01:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam That's what I figured. You cant jump someone and then claim self defense. The stupid assed Paul Blart wannabe should have stayed in the damn car. I agree, I would have arrested Watchdouche on the spot.

Hillwilliam -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 3:37:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam That's what I figured. You cant jump someone and then claim self defense. The stupid assed Paul Blart wannabe should have stayed in the damn car. I agree, I would have arrested Watchdouche on the spot. TY for coming down here rob. Theres a few concealed carry permit holders on this one including myself and we disagree strongly. I was curious to know what a policeman thought about the situation. You and I don't agree on much else but we apparently agree on this.

Aswad -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 6:44:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror That's true. But then again, who's to say they weren't threatened? That's not the question. The question is when we make the distinction between lawful killing and murder. And that distinction is, in this case, based on the claim of self defense. Anyone can claim self defense, but for the claim to be recognized, it is necessary for it to fulfill some criterion we have laid out. Those include a certain definition of a threat. A definition which depends on the credibility of the threat posed, on the threat not having been sought out, and so forth. When there's a gun involved, both people in the conflict will feel threatened. One of them may have a valid self defense argument. Zimmerman, to my mind, does not. He went into this situation and voided his right to claim self defense. If the other guy had pulled a gun, that would be escalating the conflict in a manner that would provide a valid claim to self defense. But Zimmerman is the one who pulled the gun. quote: Most wouldn't. But someone who was trying to ensure his neighborhood's safety might...at least enough to be able to direct cops to the perceived threat when they arrive. I've done a fair bit of that. Stalking someone and getting into an altercation with them isn't how you do it. quote: You're saying that unless you're a cop, you can't be concerned about your neighbor's safety? No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that you don't get to play hero and then kill anyone that doesn't play along. If you put yourself in a risky position, you're assuming that risk for yourself. That means you don't get to claim self defense because you felt threatened by the risk you assumed. Quite simply, there's a difference between a threat coming to you, and you seeking it out. When you've chosen to be downwind of the fan, you don't get to respond to shit by blowing everyone away. When you assume a risk, you are expected to shoulder it like a fucking man. If at any point you can't deal, you get out of dodge, you don't put fellow citizens' lives at risk. Even if you think they're up to no good. Until you have proof. Verify your targets. The burden is on you, because you're the one that wants to try to carry it. If you can't, you leave it to those whose lives are dedicated to carrying it: the police. If you can't hack it... don't step up. Health, al-Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 8:39:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave Well, apparently I am the only person in the world whose experience with LEO has always been positive. [...] Frankly, it's always been my experience that if you are honest with LEOs and treat them with respect they are almost always willing to do their best for you. I've got four police officers in my immediate family. One vice higher-up, one undercover narc, one beat cop and one that's got a career he can't say much about up until a few years ago (which means counterterrorism unit). It's been confirmed by all of them that there are rotten eggs out there, and that sometimes the culture in a whole department can go rotten altogether. Now, I don't know subrob, but I will hazard a guess that he'll also concede that there are some cops out there that don't honor their uniform. And, as an officer of the law, he'll undoubtedly be twice as upset about those bad seeds as any of the rest of us. Doing a good job as a police officer is twice as hard when people don't trust the police. And I expect very few people become police for the wages. Health, al-Aswad.

Owner59 -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/17/2012 11:39:12 PM)
The 911 recordings...... This Zimmerman guy sounds like he`s a trouble maker more than a watch-guy. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/16/trayvon-martin-911-audio-_n_1354909.html?ir=Crime&ref=topbar

subrob1967 -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/18/2012 12:55:45 AM)
FR The tapes make Zimmerman sound like a petty Despot, doing whatever he feels is the right thing to protect his "kingdom", including ignoring the rules of the watch, and the advice of the Dispatcher... The shooting itself may have been in self defense, but Zimmerman put himself in harms way, and should suffer the consequences of his stupid actions.

erieangel -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/18/2012 2:02:45 AM)
Petition on Change.org to get Zimmerman arrested. Maybe, public outcry will encourage the DA to bring charges against this racist, disgusting pig. https://www.change.org/petitions/prosecute-the-killer-of-17-year-old-trayvon-martin#

farglebargle -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/18/2012 4:31:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 FR The tapes make Zimmerman sound like a petty Despot, doing whatever he feels is the right thing to protect his "kingdom", including ignoring the rules of the watch, and the advice of the Dispatcher... The shooting itself may have been in self defense, but Zimmerman put himself in harms way, and should suffer the consequences of his stupid actions. Too late. He didn't get beaten to death by the guy he stalked, hunted, attacked and killed.

subrob1967 -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/18/2012 9:04:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 FR The tapes make Zimmerman sound like a petty Despot, doing whatever he feels is the right thing to protect his "kingdom", including ignoring the rules of the watch, and the advice of the Dispatcher... The shooting itself may have been in self defense, but Zimmerman put himself in harms way, and should suffer the consequences of his stupid actions. Too late. He didn't get beaten to death by the guy he stalked, hunted, attacked and killed. Not too late, Fla has the death penalty

slvemike4u -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/18/2012 9:47:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror [You keep using the word "kid." Judging from the photo the media likes to keep showing, the "kid" was a football player. He weighed 140#. Zimmerman weighs 240. I'm pretty sure there were no scales out there in the dark that night. When I graduated high school I only weighed about 150. But in the dark on a rainy night, I'm sure even I looked intimidating to some. And I was just a scrawny white kid who never played sports. We can talk weight all day long. But the kid was built enough to be on the football field. Damm but you are a limber sort of guy,watching you twist yourself into all sort of contortionist positions in order to somehow defend the indefensible would be amusing,were it not so damm telling. Do the flip test pal,make it a white "kid"(or young man since you seem to object so strongly to the use of kid,while on that subject,let me ask you something do black youths become men at an earlier age than white youths ?.Does it have something to do with a threat quotion ?)and a black man who gets out of his car. White kid winds up shot in the chest. Are we even having a discussion here,are just waiting for the death sentence to be imposed?

slvemike4u -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/18/2012 9:54:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam FL had the 'no retreat" rule while I was there. There's a big difference between not retreating and actively pursuing. I caught a kid trying to break into my car in the Driveway once. He ran the other way. If I had shot and killed him, I would still be making matresses or something at Raiford correctional. Now, I could have chased him down and beat hell out of him and been ok but you can't shoot someone in FL who is not in your dwelling and is trying to retreat. It's the same in TN. He was inside a gated community but he was still on the street. In both states, you cannot shoot to prevent property crime, only if you feel immenent danger. Again, Zimmerman left the safety of his vehicle and pursued the kid. As for the 'football player' that went all of 140. If someone is such a pussy that they feel physically threatened by someone 100# lighter while they're inside a 4000# car, they DONT need to be carrying a gun because they're exactly the type person that should be weeded out by the background checks. Zimmerman's arrest a few years ago for battery on an officer and resisting arrest should have also precluded him being able to carry. All of what you're saying are things that come out in the days/weeks/months following an incident. At. that. moment. of the shooting, none of this is known. And again, the cops haven't charged the guy, so there must be some legal reason for it. Yeah cause everyone knows justice is always,always handled in a fair and equitable way.....lol

DarqueMirror -> RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... (3/18/2012 9:49:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam How am I admitting my logic doesnt hold up? the shooting took place 'some distance from the car' Did they fucking TELEPORT? Either Zimmerman pursued him or the kid dragged him out of the car and down the street? You're admitting your logic doesn't hold up because in an earlier post, you said you'd run from someone wielding a gun. However, in this case, there was a physical altercation. Meaning, most likely, that Martin did not run back home and call the cops (evidenced by there being no 911 call by him or his parents). So, if there was a physical altercation between a "140 lbs kid" and this man with a gun, either A) Zimmerman didn't have his gun out while following Martin or B) Martin was a threat, not to mention insane, because he confronted an armed man with only candy and a can of tea in his hand. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam As for "pursued to contact" Zim was in the car. The fight and death occurred some distance away. How do you get there without PURSUING as he had been told not to do by the dispatcher. Actually, in the tapes, the dispatcher asked him if he was following, not pursuing, and he said yes. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam You've claimed ceveral times to be CHL qualified. It's a shame but a few always slip thru the cracks. And it's a shame you can't disagree with someone without resorting to attacking them. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Bottom line. It isn't self defense if you chase someone down. Bottom line: following and chasing are not the same thing. (Really? you've gone from pursuing to chasing now? Sheesh.) quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam When someone runs away, you have defended yourself. And when someone initiates a physical confrontation with an armed man, they are not running away.

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