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ORIGINAL: VioletGray

LoL So every single point that I've made you've mentally scribbled over with a sharpie and wrote, "because they're both black." Zimmerman has a history of being aggressive, people have complained about his tactics before, he's even assaulted a cop, but you find it easier to believe that I suspect him because the victim and I are both black. I do believe that on some subconscious level you know that your reasoning doesn't hold up, and the baseless accusation that I support Trayvon because we're both black is easier for you to come to terms with.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Is Zimmerman a Rat?

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ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Doesn't change a thing. This "Walking While Black" bullshit doesn't fly. His family lives in this upper-middle class GATED, SECURE, COMMUNITY. I haven't been able to find numbers on the racial diversity of this little slice of paradise, but I've taken the time to look at the 7 minute sales video put out by The Retreat at the Lakes (the community in question). This is not the sort of neighborhood where you walk around looking like a gang-banger. From the few pictures I've been able to find of Trayvon without his hoodie, he does not appear to have dressed like one normally, so maybe the hoodie was more out of place than we are being led to believe.

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I'm a white guy

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, and I would look suspicious in that neighborhood because of the way I dress.

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Someone walking slowly in the rain in a hoodie would definitely look out of place there enough to be considered suspicious. Okay, the parents claim he wore the hoodie because it was cold. So it was cold and raining and here is a teenage kid in a hoodie walking slowly? Slowly? A chicken has a brain the size of a nickle, but even a chicken has enough sense to run for shelter in a cold rain. I would be suspicious of someone walking slowly in a cold rain too.

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There are claims that complaints have been made about Zimmerman to the police, but the Home Owners Association has never heard about them. The police will not discuss these alleged complaints because there is an ongoing investigation. The same reason they won't release the 911 tapes. But lets be fair and say that Zimmerman was the biggest douchebag in the neighborhood and this is all some big fat racist cover-up... I still blame the parents for not protecting their son from this alleged loose cannon. If they already knew this Zimmerman guy was so unpredictable, they should have done more to protect him or taught him how to deal with the guy without getting in an altercation.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

There's plenty of positions a fast kid could fill on a football team. Pretty much any receiver who needs to OUTRUN tackles, it's a benefit.

That said, looks like the florida law doesn't grant immunity if you're the attacker, and since Zimmerman was told to lay back, and he's been trained to lay back, he made the CHOICE to break the advice given by the 9-11 operator AND his training, so "self-defense" doesn't apply. ESPECIALLY since the two little boo-boos which didn't need even a trip to the hospital, ain't going to come to the level of an threat requiring force, much less deadly force.

The real fun is going to start when all that indistinct yelling on the 9-11 tapes is washed clean by forensic audiologists and we can hear the entire exchange.

Who wants to bet there's a gunshot, the victim pleading for his life, and then a coup-de-grace?

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ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


So you're now admittng your own logic doesn't hold up? Interesting. See, you made it very clear a few posts ago that if someone was approaching you with a gun, you'd run like hell. And if that person caught up to you, you'd fight. So are you now saying you believe this "140 lbs kid" did *not* run in a similar situation? Well I don't know about you, but if I was "waving a gun around" and someone ran toward me instead of away from me, I'd definitely feel threatened, as that person would have to be insane.

I'd love to see your evidence that he "pursued to contact," instead of just to keep an eye on Martin.


Tell you what, since you can't read too well: you show me where I stated what you're claiming I stated, and I'll go look up a link for it.


That's funny since I'm CHL qualified.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
That's what I figured. You cant jump someone and then claim self defense. The stupid assed Paul Blart wannabe should have stayed in the damn car.

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ORIGINAL: subrob1967

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
That's what I figured. You cant jump someone and then claim self defense. The stupid assed Paul Blart wannabe should have stayed in the damn car.

I agree, I would have arrested Watchdouche on the spot.

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ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

That's true. But then again, who's to say they weren't threatened?

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Most wouldn't. But someone who was trying to ensure his neighborhood's safety might...at least enough to be able to direct cops to the perceived threat when they arrive.

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You're saying that unless you're a cop, you can't be concerned about your neighbor's safety?

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ORIGINAL: SadistDave

Well, apparently I am the only person in the world whose experience with LEO has always been positive. [...] Frankly, it's always been my experience that if you are honest with LEOs and treat them with respect they are almost always willing to do their best for you.

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ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR
The tapes make Zimmerman sound like a petty Despot, doing whatever he feels is the right thing to protect his "kingdom", including ignoring the rules of the watch, and the advice of the Dispatcher... The shooting itself may have been in self defense, but Zimmerman put himself in harms way, and should suffer the consequences of his stupid actions.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR
The tapes make Zimmerman sound like a petty Despot, doing whatever he feels is the right thing to protect his "kingdom", including ignoring the rules of the watch, and the advice of the Dispatcher... The shooting itself may have been in self defense, but Zimmerman put himself in harms way, and should suffer the consequences of his stupid actions.

Too late. He didn't get beaten to death by the guy he stalked, hunted, attacked and killed.

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ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

[You keep using the word "kid." Judging from the photo the media likes to keep showing, the "kid" was a football player.

He weighed 140#. Zimmerman weighs 240.

I'm pretty sure there were no scales out there in the dark that night. When I graduated high school I only weighed about 150. But in the dark on a rainy night, I'm sure even I looked intimidating to some. And I was just a scrawny white kid who never played sports. We can talk weight all day long. But the kid was built enough to be on the football field.

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ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
FL had the 'no retreat" rule while I was there. There's a big difference between not retreating and actively pursuing.

I caught a kid trying to break into my car in the Driveway once. He ran the other way. If I had shot and killed him, I would still be making matresses or something at Raiford correctional.

Now, I could have chased him down and beat hell out of him and been ok but you can't shoot someone in FL who is not in your dwelling and is trying to retreat. It's the same in TN.

He was inside a gated community but he was still on the street. In both states, you cannot shoot to prevent property crime, only if you feel immenent danger. Again, Zimmerman left the safety of his vehicle and pursued the kid.

As for the 'football player' that went all of 140.

If someone is such a pussy that they feel physically threatened by someone 100# lighter while they're inside a 4000# car, they DONT need to be carrying a gun because they're exactly the type person that should be weeded out by the background checks.

Zimmerman's arrest a few years ago for battery on an officer and resisting arrest should have also precluded him being able to carry.

All of what you're saying are things that come out in the days/weeks/months following an incident. At. that. moment. of the shooting, none of this is known.

And again, the cops haven't charged the guy, so there must be some legal reason for it.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
How am I admitting my logic doesnt hold up? the shooting took place 'some distance from the car' Did they fucking TELEPORT? Either Zimmerman pursued him or the kid dragged him out of the car and down the street?

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
As for "pursued to contact" Zim was in the car. The fight and death occurred some distance away. How do you get there without PURSUING as he had been told not to do by the dispatcher.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
You've claimed ceveral times to be CHL qualified. It's a shame but a few always slip thru the cracks.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Bottom line. It isn't self defense if you chase someone down.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
When someone runs away, you have defended yourself.