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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Here's the rub.

To you it's a personals site.  To them, it's not.  To tell you the truth, it's not a personals site to Me, either, because I'm not here to date or to find a relationship.  I'm here to shoot the shit and talk about kink.  The question that has to follow is, which one of us is right?

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

The thing is, we both are because the site can be used for both of those purposes.  It also functions well as advertising for those who are using it in that way.  In My personal opinion, when people pull up that stuff about professionals being here against TOS, they really haven't thought that through because the site even provides a section specifically for advertising professional services.  No different, really, than if you wanted to sell a flogger and market it here.

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3.1. The Website provides a forum through which adults may seek and establish personal contact with one another through the use of the Website's capabilities for displaying photographs and written materials provided by its members.

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7.3. ACCEPTABLE USE POLICY: You agree and understand that Our Website permits You to use Our services in order to post content and to communicate with other Users. We are entitled to investigate and terminate Your membership if You have misused the Website, or behaved in a way which could be regarded as inappropriate, unlawful, or illegal. The following is a partial, but not exhaustive, list of the types of actions that are illegal or prohibited under this Agreement.

...

7.3.12. You will not use Your profile or any other portion of the Website or Our services to promote any other business enterprise, unless otherwise permitted by collarme.com, nor will you attempt to use any of Our services to promote an escort service, prostitution, web-cams, or any other form of related enterprise;

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ORIGINAL: Privileged

I’ll preface my questions by saying I am not a professional domme. However, the abuse and attitude I see pro dommes dealing with is troubling. It seems like men who would benefit the most from a pro session are the most vocal about being anti pro. I’m not talking about those seeking a mutually beneficial relationship. I’m talking about men who are solely seeking their own satisfaction.

I see a lot of “do it because you love/enjoy/want it” statements. In the case of pain enthusiasts, would you really risk serious injury at the hands of an amateur to avoid paying a professional dominant? I would think a pro domme would know best how to provide after care. Is that not an important enough factor in fetish play?

If your aversion to pro sessions goes deeper than “PRO DUMMES R WHORES”, I’d love to hear your thoughts.

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ORIGINAL: Whenready

Wheldrake has a point which I might summarise as "real men don't pay for it..." Also....

I see a lot of “do it because you love/enjoy/want it” statements. I suspect that this could also be paraphrased as "I want it free" or "I can't hide that many cash transactions".

Cynical? MOI?

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63
Well, essentially, I'm here just for the boards as well, and that's the main reason I keep my profile active. Just being here to shoot the shit and talk about kink would still fall within the realm of social and personal contact, not commercial.

But you raise an interesting point in saying that to the pro-dommes, Collarme is not a personals or social site. Why wouldn't they view it as a personals site? It seems pretty obvious when one looks at the opening page that it's a personals site. There are other sites which cater specifically to those offering professional services, so most people should be able to clearly tell the difference.

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Well, I'm just going by what it says in the Terms of Service, which clearly state:

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3.1. The Website provides a forum through which adults may seek and establish personal contact with one another through the use of the Website's capabilities for displaying photographs and written materials provided by its members.

quote:

7.3. ACCEPTABLE USE POLICY: You agree and understand that Our Website permits You to use Our services in order to post content and to communicate with other Users. We are entitled to investigate and terminate Your membership if You have misused the Website, or behaved in a way which could be regarded as inappropriate, unlawful, or illegal. The following is a partial, but not exhaustive, list of the types of actions that are illegal or prohibited under this Agreement.

...

7.3.12. You will not use Your profile or any other portion of the Website or Our services to promote any other business enterprise, unless otherwise permitted by collarme.com, nor will you attempt to use any of Our services to promote an escort service, prostitution, web-cams, or any other form of related enterprise;

The message board rules might be different, since this site is technically called "collarchat" whereas the other side is called "collarme." I'm not sure about this, so perhaps a moderator would like to clarify the rules on this matter.

However, it seems to me that just because there's a section for professional services on the message board, it doesn't automatically follow that it would be acceptable use in someone's profile on the other side. Likewise, just because there's a section on the message board for professional services, it doesn't mean that professionals can advertise in Politics and Religion or other sections of the message board.

Whether the site administrators choose to enforce the TOS is another matter and not really any of my business.

But since the question was raised by the OP regarding those who are against pro-dommes, I was offering a possible explanation as to why there might be such animosity from some people.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
The odd thing about this is that this only comes up when it comes to female professionals.  Not even the male professionals, who are on the site as well.  It never comes up for any other type of kink related business that people have profiles here for.  Not the whip makers, club owners, people selling fetish wear, or any other type of thing.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

That doesn't sound phrased very well, so I want to make sure that we are on the same page.  I happen to be glad the folks who are associated with those businesses are on the site because, as I see it, those people are a part of our community, too.  They are at our events, we buy their products, etc.  Some of them are even the advertisers that really do pay the bills around here.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

The part about not sticking the ads in Politics and Religion, I'm completely in agreement with you about.  I think the forums are set up in a certain way and it's a lot easier to find what you are looking for when using them correctly.

The angle that I'm coming from is that you then have to say the same thing about other sections of the boards.  Most certainly the "Sought for Sale" forum as well as "Upcoming Events".  The sought for sale area even has in it's guidelines that if you want to discuss something about what has been posted/offered to please contact the person through their profile to do so.  Up in the Upcoming Events section, they don't have that in the guidelines, but as a person who has posted events there, I can tell you that a person will get some responses on the thread (hopefully) but there will also be those who would prefer to send an email to the profile.  Even My own profile clearly states that is why I have it up.  It's for when people want to contact Me about munches and events. While I don't make any money personally for those endeavors, I can promise you that somebody does, unless we are talking about those events that specifically related to a not for profit or a charity function.

I really can't say much about what the site's owners categorize acceptable commercial related enterprise and what isn't, except for what you've got listed from TOS in the above.  I would have to think legal and not legal would be the easiest part to sort, of course, and the rest probably lies somewhere in the middle.

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ORIGINAL: slaverachel2Him

Many guys who really aren't as submissive as they think can do well with oe because i know the Dommes and Mistresses are WAY tired of guys who claim to be submissive and then go on about what is going to happen. "ill kiss you feet, and then do the dishes, when i'm not fast enough you'll cane me and force me to pleasure you then put on the chastity device and kiss your feet again before i make the bed and do the laundry. then punish me by making me pleasure you again with the cage on. Then you'll make me masturbate in front of the camera painfully hard so i cum, but you'll laugh at me." i have seen this or similar ones over an over- details change, but not the idea. Where is the "How may i serve you Mistress, in this anywhere?"

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63
I haven't come across any profiles from male professionals or others who might be here for commercial purposes, but in any case, I'm not advocating any double standard here.

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Well, sure, the paid banner advertisements are a completely different matter. I was referring to the actual profiles where people put their details (age, gender, ht., wt., location, etc.) and what they're actively seeking. Since the profiles are free, I can't see how Collarme would derive revenue from that.

The profiles part seems specifically geared for posting and searching personal profiles. This is especially obvious when one looks at the list of what a profile holder might be actively seeking (i.e. Dominant Women, Dominant Men, Submissive Women, Submissive Men, Friends Only, Poly Household, etc.). There's no option for "Actively Seeking Customers/Clients" or anything like that.

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If such an option did exist, then that would at least remove any ambiguity or confusion over this question.

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On the message boards, having different sections makes perfect sense, as that's just a matter of organizing the boards and making it easier for users to select the sections they're interested in.

If I'm looking through Politics and Religion, I would hope that the threads would be within the scope of those particular topics. If they weren't, then it would get too confusing, unwieldy, and a bit difficult to utilize for the end user. If a board gets inundated with off-topic and spam threads, it ends up becoming practically unusable. Users would have cause to complain about it, too. But the solution is relatively easy by keeping things organized in different sections by topic.

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Similarly, the same thing could probably be done on the profiles side as well by adding a few more options and filters within the search parameters. Since this issue comes up quite often, I can't understand why such an obvious solution isn't given any consideration. That's why I'm always a bit baffled whenever this issue comes up, since there seems to be a lot of complaints from both sides, but nobody wants to listen to any possible solutions.

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ORIGINAL: Kana

I'm anti-pro simply because I haven't yet found anyone who will pay me to top em :-)


On a more serious note, technically, and I mean just that- technically as in according to the terms of service, aren't folks not allowed to charge or ask for money, which means that any and all pro's on here are violating TOS?
Not only that, but all it takes is one wingnut politico to decide that by allowing folks to charge for services, CM is running a prostitution site, opening the door to possibly charging the site and the owners and maybe even to shut it down, at least until things get sorted out in court

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ORIGINAL: MrBukani

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ORIGINAL: Kana

I'm anti-pro simply because I haven't yet found anyone who will pay me to top em :-)


On a more serious note, technically, and I mean just that- technically as in according to the terms of service, aren't folks not allowed to charge or ask for money, which means that any and all pro's on here are violating TOS?
Not only that, but all it takes is one wingnut politico to decide that by allowing folks to charge for services, CM is running a prostitution site, opening the door to possibly charging the site and the owners and maybe even to shut it down, at least until things get sorted out in court

CM is in violation of its own TOS
Something to ponder about.
BUT thats why they ask tribute and have amazon wishlists.
Gifts is not sending or paying money for service.
Some are smart cookies ya know.

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ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Yes I know, but if I come clean your house as a friend or cook for you when you are sick, the IRS will have a tough cookie to crack.
And I thought prostitution was somewhat legal in Nevada, so maybe there is a glitch there too.
And gifts can be tax deductable. So there is a whole range of reasoning to get around the IRS.
Mind you I am dutch so I dont know too much about the US.

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ORIGINAL: Privileged

I’ll preface my questions by saying I am not a professional domme. However, the abuse and attitude I see pro dommes dealing with is troubling. It seems like men who would benefit the most from a pro session are the most vocal about being anti pro. I’m not talking about those seeking a mutually beneficial relationship. I’m talking about men who are solely seeking their own satisfaction.

I see a lot of “do it because you love/enjoy/want it” statements. In the case of pain enthusiasts, would you really risk serious injury at the hands of an amateur to avoid paying a professional dominant? I would think a pro domme would know best how to provide after care. Is that not an important enough factor in fetish play?

If your aversion to pro sessions goes deeper than “PRO DUMMES R WHORES”, I’d love to hear your thoughts.

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ORIGINAL: LoreBook

I guess that would depend on the definition of prostitution in the jurisdiction in question. I'm not certain, but I think that the laws of wherever the site is based are what apply. Anybody know for sure how that works?