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RE: The anti pro stance - 4/13/2012 11:26:25 AM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I think there's a bit of a difference between princesses and pro dommes, here's a hint, the princesses are usually online only and want to be "spoiled", most of them are very young girls who think it's going to work, lot's of them are possibly guys with pictures of hot girls on the profile, thinking this is going to work...

Now you don't have to be a brain surgeon to figure out that if a domme has been around for a while, she might know her stuff, in fact there are sites who (gasp, the horror) discuss pro domme sessions and what the skills are - you ever wondered how guys find pro dommes? Ahhh light bulb moment, yes on those sites... Also if the client gets injured, most docs are required to inform the police, as you can't give consent to assault, so the chances of somebody having a business of cramming Kong Balls up people's anuses seems to be quite limited. Seems to me you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to pro dommes...

Great post! I have a lot of respect for a pro. A princess... queen superior, playing a part to take those into this kink or the desperate... I often joke about. Because I joke about them, even if it is a legitimate kink for the men, is only greed and an opportunist in my mind for the women and some might think I am against pro's, which isn't at all where I'm coming from.

I do have my feminist side that I am coming by late in life... lol... which questions a few things, but hey... I have always said, to each their own and live true to yourself. If that means something I might even question, it doesn't mean I am against it. I might even be for it in many ways!

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(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 81

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/13/2012 2:16:47 PM

Isabellalee

Posts: 23
Joined: 10/31/2007
Status: offline

This is Mistress Isabella Lee, and I have alot to say about this subject, as I am a Pro domme, and have been since I completed my training with My Mistress. When I was 18 years old I started my training, but, I was alway inheritantly dominant, and curious about the lifestyle since I was very young. I consider myself honest, openminded, and very knowlegeable about many fetishes. I agree with what Privileged has to say about the subs that put us Pro's down, that they are most likely the ones most in need of a Pro Domina. Unlike many of the amature, or "lifestyle" type Domme's, I take into consideration what the subs deepest, darkest desires are, and I do not discriminate on what the sub looks like, or what there experience levels are. I accept any reasonable sub to come and try a session with me, and as long as the first session goes well, may let them serve me on a regular basis. I have learned alot from the many subs I have seen over the years, and one of the things I learned is that I am worth alot more, than what I ask for, which is really just enough to cover the basic needs of the goddess, such as location expenses, and things like medical gloves, lube, and toys. I have had many slaves over the years that I did indeed develop a long lasting relationship with and really enjoyed there company. I hope this has enlightened some of you, and I am really glad that someone brought this topic up for discussion. Everything in life costs something, and freedom is not free, and whether you like to imagine that slavery is free, it is not really either in a lifestyle situation, you should still provide things to please your Mistress in whatever she wants, so the sooner you learn that lesson, the faster you will find the right Mistress that will control you, and give you what you really deserve.

Sinfully yours, Mistress Isabella Lee

_____________________________

Do you know what it's like to be loved by death? To have her hold you in her arms and give you that final kiss? I want to know a love that lasts and stays until the bitter end.

(in reply to Privileged)

Post #: 82

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/13/2012 2:54:43 PM

Toppingfrmbottom

Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
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Not every one who is not a pro domme, and gets paid for the beating is not an amature who doesn't know what they're doing and will injure you, or not know how to provide after care. That's a silly, and presumptuous statement if that's what you're implying, that only pro domme's and Doms know what they're doing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Privileged

I see a lot of “do it because you love/enjoy/want it” statements. In the case of pain enthusiasts, would you really risk serious injury at the hands of an amateur to avoid paying a professional dominant? I would think a pro domme would know best how to provide after care. Is that not an important enough factor in fetish play?

If your aversion to pro sessions goes deeper than “PRO DUMMES R WHORES”, I’d love to hear your thoughts.

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(in reply to Privileged)

Post #: 83

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/13/2012 3:00:46 PM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: let34

quote:

I’m not talking about those seeking a mutually beneficial relationship. I’m talking about men who are solely seeking their own satisfaction.

As soon as money comes into it, it's a business/client relationship, and the customer gets what they want.

Get over yourself.

That depends on the domme. I had a friend who's "client" showed up for a session with a bottle of wine. She had told him in the past that she didn't tolerate alcohol and for his session that day, he say in a corner for an hour and then went home. I doubt that was what he wanted. Now he could have said he was never going to see her again, but he didn't. He accepted that she was the one in control.

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(in reply to let34)

Post #: 84

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/15/2012 1:54:55 AM

NoEscapeOption

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Joined: 4/14/2012
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Who does it for money clearly is not in a position of power, but needy and weak and dependent on the ones paying. I can't take a person seriously that I can make jump through hoops for a few bucks, and much less so a "Domme". Just a big turn off.

If a Domme brought the subject up after a relationship is established - e.g. for the sake of true power exchange - I would see it as legitimate fetish interest. However, the 99% of "Dommes" on CM who apparently want to be paid upfront clearly don't pursue this as a fetish, especially since they must (or should) know that on the other hand, 99% of self-respecting men are put off by such behavior. They apparently don't care much whom they engage with as long as they pay, and that is not really that sexy either.

(in reply to Whenready)

Post #: 85

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/15/2012 2:59:17 AM

TNDommeK

Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NoEscapeOption

Who does it for money clearly is not in a position of power, but needy and weak and dependent on the ones paying. I can't take a person seriously that I can make jump through hoops for a few bucks, and much less so a "Domme". Just a big turn off.

If a Domme brought the subject up after a relationship is established - e.g. for the sake of true power exchange - I would see it as legitimate fetish interest. However, the 99% of "Dommes" on CM who apparently want to be paid upfront clearly don't pursue this as a fetish, especially since they must (or should) know that on the other hand, 99% of self-respecting men are put off by such behavior. They apparently don't care much whom they engage with as long as they pay, and that is not really that sexy either.

This would be purely your opinion. No matter what the job is, when one works, one expects to get paid. Needy and weak? Well, I can't speak for others, only Myself, and far from Needy or weak, NO! Also, if you read some of the profiles on this site of pro Dommes, you might find that they don't bend to please the sub, but actually the other way around. When a sub contacts Me, he does so with the understanding that what is done in a session is what pleases Me, not him. Or he can go else where...but that would Me NOT being needy or weak.
There are people who find this alluring. You, clearly are not one of these people. And that is fine. No one judges you for that. And for the record, when I logged on just now before coming to this side of the site, I politely rejected three emails begging to send Me money. So yes, the whole, needy and weak, and will take any guy because they pay...is not applied to this Pro.

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(in reply to NoEscapeOption)

Post #: 86

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/15/2012 8:55:52 AM

Bhruic

Posts: 985
Joined: 4/11/2012
From: Toronto, Canada
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I see Domination and submission as a quite intimate relationship. As such, I imagine it is pretty rare that you could buy it and be satisfied. I suppose that is where alot of the issues stem from.

(This is actually in reply to the original post, not to "whenready". Still figuring that out.)

< Message edited by Bhruic -- 4/15/2012 8:58:25 AM >

(in reply to Whenready)

Post #: 87

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/15/2012 10:31:15 AM

msub4real

Posts: 13
Joined: 4/15/2012
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My aversion to pro sessions is the expense. I have the same aversion to luxury cars. I can barter services but otherwise I can't afford it. Pros need money like anyone else and they perform a service, so there is nothing unfair or wrong with it as far as that goes. I don't think a Pro is better at what they do. The only thing unique is that you would be paying for it. Paying for it is an act of humiliation in and of itself. Nothing says you're worthless more than having to pay someone for intimate needs. On that score it's a win, but in the same way just paying accomplishes the result so the session is an afterthought.

(in reply to Privileged)

Post #: 88

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/15/2012 4:14:11 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: msub4real
The only thing unique is that you would be paying for it. Paying for it is an act of humiliation in and of itself. Nothing says you're worthless more than having to pay someone for intimate needs. On that score it's a win . . . .

You know, I've never thought of that before: humiliation is a factor in paying for a sesh with a pro-domme.

I could never get past the idea that if you're paying for a service, then the person performing the service must be a servant - and a servant can't be a dominant, by definition. Cheers for the insight!

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(in reply to msub4real)

Post #: 89

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/15/2012 6:28:18 PM

TNDommeK

Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: msub4real
The only thing unique is that you would be paying for it. Paying for it is an act of humiliation in and of itself. Nothing says you're worthless more than having to pay someone for intimate needs. On that score it's a win . . . .

You know, I've never thought of that before: humiliation is a factor in paying for a sesh with a pro-domme.

I could never get past the idea that if you're paying for a service, then the person performing the service must be a servant - and a servant can't be a dominant, by definition. Cheers for the insight!

I know you don't talk to Me, lol but I have a question to your statement. What if the person isn't preforming a service that the sub wanted but more so what SHE (the Domme) wanted? Then how would you define that?

_____________________________

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The working Fin Domme
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Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

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Post #: 90

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/15/2012 7:04:03 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: msub4real
The only thing unique is that you would be paying for it. Paying for it is an act of humiliation in and of itself. Nothing says you're worthless more than having to pay someone for intimate needs. On that score it's a win . . . .

You know, I've never thought of that before: humiliation is a factor in paying for a sesh with a pro-domme.

I could never get past the idea that if you're paying for a service, then the person performing the service must be a servant - and a servant can't be a dominant, by definition. Cheers for the insight!

I know you don't talk to Me, lol but I have a question to your statement. What if the person isn't preforming a service that the sub wanted but more so what SHE (the Domme) wanted? Then how would you define that?

I don't know how I'd define it, TNDK.

When I used the phrase 'I could never get past the idea that . . .', it wasn't just a homely expression. I meant to imply that some kinds of reasoning were too much of an obstacle for me.

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that none of this D/s stuff stands up to the light of reason anyway. My own submissive inclinations aren't remotely rational. The shape of a woman's nose will have as much to do with whether or not I feel submissive towards her as her confident, competent (etc, etc, etc) demeanour and personality.

It's all bloody stupid, really. Great, of course - but stupid. Some kinds of stupidities work better for me than others, that's all.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 4/15/2012 7:05:05 PM >

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Post #: 91

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/15/2012 8:02:36 PM

TNDommeK

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Joined: 3/13/2010
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Alright, just curious how people's minds work.

So the shape of a woman's nose..interesting.

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The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 92

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/16/2012 1:20:08 AM

SexyThoughts

Posts: 180
Joined: 7/14/2011
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I'm more laid back about it. Sex is like food, either someone cooks for you for love or money or just because they want to try out their new dish on the nearest convenient person :-)

Grouping ProDommes under one heading is like grouping McDonald cooks with millionaire Michelin starred chefs. Arguments that work at one end of the scale won't work at the other.
Grouping amateurs under one heading is like grouping people who can make toast, with people who take classes to learn new cooking techniques. And you have the same problem with one size fits all generalizations.

And what would you prefer, nobody, someone who feeds for you for money, or someone who feeds you because they love you?

(in reply to TNDommeK)

Post #: 93

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/16/2012 6:03:28 PM

TNDommeK

Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
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I'd want someone to feed Me because I was hungry.

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The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

(in reply to SLAVEBOYDUB)

Post #: 94

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/16/2012 10:18:31 PM

Zensualista

Posts: 41
Joined: 3/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: msub4real

My aversion to pro sessions is the expense. I have the same aversion to luxury cars. I can barter services but otherwise I can't afford it. Pros need money like anyone else and they perform a service, so there is nothing unfair or wrong with it as far as that goes. I don't think a Pro is better at what they do. The only thing unique is that you would be paying for it. Paying for it is an act of humiliation in and of itself. Nothing says you're worthless more than having to pay someone for intimate needs. On that score it's a win, but in the same way just paying accomplishes the result so the session is an afterthought.

No, a form of humiliation is complaining about how others spend their money. It sounds like a low self opinion, since you have an aversion to expensive items that you can't afford. Do you think someone feels worthless or humiliated because they are driving a new Mercedes?

(in reply to msub4real)

Post #: 95

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/16/2012 10:50:19 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: msub4real
The only thing unique is that you would be paying for it. Paying for it is an act of humiliation in and of itself. Nothing says you're worthless more than having to pay someone for intimate needs. On that score it's a win . . . .

You know, I've never thought of that before: humiliation is a factor in paying for a sesh with a pro-domme.

I could never get past the idea that if you're paying for a service, then the person performing the service must be a servant - and a servant can't be a dominant, by definition. Cheers for the insight!

Rubbish comparison, your doctor or dentist gets paid, does that make them your servant or can they say "No peon, we're not going to give you boobs/fangs, find somebody else, not what we do or want to do!" You're going to a concert, you're paying to see a band, think they're your servants? You're fixing up somebody's house and they want you to do something you don't do (for whatever reasons), are you a servant who has to agree or can you tell them to buzz off? In case you agree and you do it, you're still your own agent and not a servant. Getting paid for something you do well and happen to enjoy doing doesn't make you a servant, it simply means you're a professional who can charge for a service and pick the people.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 96

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/16/2012 11:07:19 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: msub4real

My aversion to pro sessions is the expense. I have the same aversion to luxury cars. I can barter services but otherwise I can't afford it. Pros need money like anyone else and they perform a service, so there is nothing unfair or wrong with it as far as that goes. I don't think a Pro is better at what they do. The only thing unique is that you would be paying for it. Paying for it is an act of humiliation in and of itself. Nothing says you're worthless more than having to pay someone for intimate needs. On that score it's a win, but in the same way just paying accomplishes the result so the session is an afterthought.

I'm kind of getting your angle. I was wondering if I might offer a thought that will help on it. A very bright women who helped Me to understand this.

It sounds very easy, doesn't it? Go to your local club or play party, be polite, be someone that people want to play with. As a female top, that's all it takes for Me. I've never exactly had to be selected.

However, that isn't always the same experience for the male bottom. He may have to wait in line. There may be many play opportunities that he is never chosen. The female tops may often pass him by. Time after time, he waits, but his opportunity doesn't come.

How long should a person wait? How much can he invest in his hoping and waiting? He may not have a lot of other opportunities. It doesn't necessarily say that one is worthless (unless that is what he wants to feel). It just means that he at least wants a chance to not have to stand in line.

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Post #: 97

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/16/2012 11:21:32 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

How long should a person wait? How much can he invest in his hoping and waiting? He may not have a lot of other opportunities. It doesn't necessarily say that one is worthless (unless that is what he wants to feel). It just means that he at least wants a chance to not have to stand in line.

Also, a guy might be in a very happy relationship, everything is fine and he loves the wife and kids dearly but she's not a sadist and on occasion he has masochistic or submissive urges - should he leave the family to follow that occasional itch and sacrifice everything? Or get the itch discreetly scratched and go on living the normal, happy family life for months or years?

I'm not saying that this isn't a betrayal of sorts to the wife (even if no sexual contact takes place), but a guy like that is worth 1000 more than the guys who are looking for "discrete fun on the side" here. I'm not not mocking BDSM relationships but not everybody has time to invest in them, or the ability to do so. Also if you're going to see a pro, you can tell her what you like and what you absolutely don't like, she might turn you down, but then you are free to shop around until you find somebody who's more suited to your needs. When it comes to just play and I'm in the mood to whip a guy, I might pass over the guy who's only interested in foot and boot worship.

I don't get the humiliation aspect of pay for play, I mean I don't feel humiliated if I go to a very nice restaurant and order the dish I like and they do well and complain that I can't find anybody who sets up a space like a restaurant for me and gives me the choice of several options on the menu, and then cooks them superbly at the drop of a hat...

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 98

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/16/2012 11:32:44 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

How long should a person wait? How much can he invest in his hoping and waiting? He may not have a lot of other opportunities. It doesn't necessarily say that one is worthless (unless that is what he wants to feel). It just means that he at least wants a chance to not have to stand in line.

Also, a guy might be in a very happy relationship, everything is fine and he loves the wife and kids dearly but she's not a sadist and on occasion he has masochistic or submissive urges - should he leave the family to follow that occasional itch and sacrifice everything? Or get the itch discreetly scratched and go on living the normal, happy family life for months or years?

I'm not saying that this isn't a betrayal of sorts to the wife (even if no sexual contact takes place), but a guy like that is worth 1000 more than the guys who are looking for "discrete fun on the side" here. I'm not not mocking BDSM relationships but not everybody has time to invest in them, or the ability to do so. Also if you're going to see a pro, you can tell her what you like and what you absolutely don't like, she might turn you down, but then you are free to shop around until you find somebody who's more suited to your needs. When it comes to just play and I'm in the mood to whip a guy, I might pass over the guy who's only interested in foot and boot worship.

I don't get the humiliation aspect of pay for play, I mean I don't feel humiliated if I go to a very nice restaurant and order the dish I like and they do well and complain that I can't find anybody who sets up a space like a restaurant for me and gives me the choice of several options on the menu, and then cooks them superbly at the drop of a hat...

A submissive/bottom who also doesn't want the strings of a relationship or who just wants to experiment and has the ability to pay also may consider seeing a pro femdoms as a luxury. He may enjoy being able to experiment in a well equipped dungeon with a woman who has amazing fetish gear that he would only ever want to use ONCE anyway - like crazy medical or water play equipment or suspension gear, or outrageous outfits.

He may want to play with someone who has an exotic "look" that matches a fantasy, and money isn't a problem. He may have a fantasy of an exotic location and accent and happens to be in that part of the world - germany, london, you name it. The stereotype of the paying customer as a desperate loser or cheating husband aren't true. There are many affluent and/or attractive men who have plenty of partner(s) and options who use professional dominas for experimentation or because they have a distinct appetite, like to explore or are adventurous and have an open minded partner or wife.

Akasha

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(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 99

RE: The anti pro stance - 4/16/2012 11:46:44 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

To be honest, I met a lot of affluent guys, some of them very attractive, some single, but most not, when I was pro-domming, but for most it was something they simply wanted to not bring home and in their relationship. A wife can be very open minded and still not into what the guy wants to experience and most women are simply not OK with their partners seeing a pro-domme, the very rare exception might be, but if it's 2% it's a lot.

I'm in the lucky position of having a very good relationship with quite a bit of kink, but there are some things I might enjoy doing to a submissive who's not my partner, but not the guy I'm living with, would my partner have those urges - I'd prefer to not know about it and him discretely satisfying them, because some things just don't mesh, that's speaking strictly for me, for others it might be different. And while we're not having an "open" relationship, he's quite alright with me playing with guys, because he trusts me enough to know that I wouldn't cross the line we would both consider "straying". For me it's fantastic and there is a reason why I've been with him for almost a decade.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 100

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