RE: The anti pro stance

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SoulAlloy -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/16/2012 11:48:46 PM)
I'd say the humiliation aspect comes from the idea that you are not worth enough to have somebody do this for you, more of a low self esteem thing... That the only way it can happen is to shell out, as someone pointed out earlier you can't apply the same reasoning to everyone There's a lot to be said for pro dommes, there are many excellent and well respected people out there.

subbyinlosangele -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 12:25:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: msub4real The only thing unique is that you would be paying for it. Paying for it is an act of humiliation in and of itself. Nothing says you're worthless more than having to pay someone for intimate needs. On that score it's a win . . . . You know, I've never thought of that before: humiliation is a factor in paying for a sesh with a pro-domme. I could never get past the idea that if you're paying for a service, then the person performing the service must be a servant - and a servant can't be a dominant, by definition. Cheers for the insight! Rubbish comparison, your doctor or dentist gets paid, does that make them your servant or can they say "No peon, we're not going to give you boobs/fangs, find somebody else, not what we do or want to do!" You're going to a concert, you're paying to see a band, think they're your servants? You're fixing up somebody's house and they want you to do something you don't do (for whatever reasons), are you a servant who has to agree or can you tell them to buzz off? In case you agree and you do it, you're still your own agent and not a servant. Getting paid for something you do well and happen to enjoy doing doesn't make you a servant, it simply means you're a professional who can charge for a service and pick the people. I wouldn't call a pro domme a servant. They are a service provider. And if you are willing to pull out some cash, you can find someone to provide any service you want and, as the buyer, you can dictate any parameters you want. I suppose some people might feel humiliation paying for a domme. But I also suspect that a lot don't. They are simply buying the experience and/or fantasy they want. But that's all conjecture on my part. I've never been with a pro domme and have no interest in that.

LadyConstanze -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 12:31:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subbyinlosangele I wouldn't call a pro domme a servant. They are a service provider. And if you are willing to pull out some cash, you can find someone to provide any service you want and, as the buyer, you can dictate any parameters you want. I suppose some people might feel humiliation paying for a domme. But I also suspect that a lot don't. They are simply buying the experience and/or fantasy they want. But that's all conjecture on my part. I've never been with a pro domme and have no interest in that. I think there is nothing wrong with buying an experience or wanting to try something out you always dreamed about, just to know how it feels. As for dictating any parameters you want, nope, doesn't happen this way, you can try to dictate but the majority of dommes will tell you "No thanks" if it's not something they are prepared to provide. Now of course you can always find somebody with a few novelty toys and no clue how to use them, or a kink friendly escort and things are a bit different.

Kainundeva -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 2:45:50 AM)
well pro dommes ARE whores and that´s fully ok, i don´t see a problem with that. that´s what the pro stands for. pros pay their taxes, have their legal registered trade and pay their social security, regardless if they are dommes or "normal" whores. at least over here... there is no difference made. and they are in the same union. if you try to put the pro dommes on a higher level, you degrade "ordinary" whores with that, and they do not deserve that. because as there are dommes who do this for fun, i also know normal girls that do this for fun. i know a girl from another city that is in munich during the week to work in a brothel, without her husband knowing... he´s away during the week and she´s bored. on the other hand i know students who domme for earning money while studying, and i know a "normal" girl who finances her life with escort+ while studying to become a lawyer... i think the big problem is that some look down on "whores" and try to seperate themselves from that, and that is the real problem they should fix.

SexyThoughts -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 3:19:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TNDommeK I'd want someone to feed Me because I was hungry. Nothing in life is free, it's either cash or barter. Tangible or Goodwill [:D]

MissKittyDeVine -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 3:47:46 AM)
Another one who thinks they know best. quote: ORIGINAL: Kainundeva well pro dommes ARE whores and that´s fully ok, i don´t see a problem with that. that´s what the pro stands for. pros pay their taxes, have their legal registered trade and pay their social security, regardless if they are dommes or "normal" whores. at least over here... there is no difference made. and they are in the same union. if you try to put the pro dommes on a higher level, you degrade "ordinary" whores with that, and they do not deserve that. because as there are dommes who do this for fun, i also know normal girls that do this for fun. i know a girl from another city that is in munich during the week to work in a brothel, without her husband knowing... he´s away during the week and she´s bored. on the other hand i know students who domme for earning money while studying, and i know a "normal" girl who finances her life with escort+ while studying to become a lawyer... i think the big problem is that some look down on "whores" and try to seperate themselves from that, and that is the real problem they should fix.

thishereboi -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 5:26:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kainundeva well pro dommes ARE whores and that´s fully ok, i don´t see a problem with that. that´s what the pro stands for. pros pay their taxes, have their legal registered trade and pay their social security, regardless if they are dommes or "normal" whores. at least over here... there is no difference made. and they are in the same union. if you try to put the pro dommes on a higher level, you degrade "ordinary" whores with that, and they do not deserve that. because as there are dommes who do this for fun, i also know normal girls that do this for fun. i know a girl from another city that is in munich during the week to work in a brothel, without her husband knowing... he´s away during the week and she´s bored. on the other hand i know students who domme for earning money while studying, and i know a "normal" girl who finances her life with escort+ while studying to become a lawyer... i think the big problem is that some look down on "whores" and try to seperate themselves from that, and that is the real problem they should fix. Two things, first pro means professional and that means you get paid for it. It you have a problem with that concept, think about pro sports. Second...did you just call all dommes whores? Do you even know what a whore is?

ProBottomGirl -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 5:49:57 AM)
From the point of view of a pro-sub... The men that hire me are normally brand spanking new so to speak... They want the oppertunity to spank a bottom, play with a flogger or a paddle and not have to do the whole commitment thing.. I get a lot of people who have never had a girl open to their desires.... I provide my own "toys" - ones that i know will not hurt/damage me should a strike go astray.... I look after my safety etc... I would not count pro dommes/subs as whores any more than i would count any other professional as a whore... pro-domme/sub does not mean that all "put out" - generally if a man is looking for sex he hires a girl who offers sex..

Kainundeva -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 7:06:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: Kainundeva well pro dommes ARE whores and that´s fully ok, i don´t see a problem with that. that´s what the pro stands for. pros pay their taxes, have their legal registered trade and pay their social security, regardless if they are dommes or "normal" whores. at least over here... there is no difference made. and they are in the same union. if you try to put the pro dommes on a higher level, you degrade "ordinary" whores with that, and they do not deserve that. because as there are dommes who do this for fun, i also know normal girls that do this for fun. i know a girl from another city that is in munich during the week to work in a brothel, without her husband knowing... he´s away during the week and she´s bored. on the other hand i know students who domme for earning money while studying, and i know a "normal" girl who finances her life with escort+ while studying to become a lawyer... i think the big problem is that some look down on "whores" and try to seperate themselves from that, and that is the real problem they should fix. Two things, first pro means professional and that means you get paid for it. It you have a problem with that concept, think about pro sports. Second...did you just call all dommes whores? Do you even know what a whore is? yes. it is a legal trade and they have a union over here, and i mean union like the transport workers union. registered under "special services - leisure tourism and wellness", they call themselves whores union and pro dommes are organised in that as well. don´t know about USA. i think you have a strange view over there on that matter anyway. whores just earn their money with sex, and they do call themselves whores, no matter if pro dommes or other sex workers. they walk together here. it´s funny that we are on a sm board and you still find that uptight views here. we don´t look down on whores, you know... http://www.hydra-ev.org/master/start.html is existing since 1980 and is since 1985 recieving government money for organising for example tax accountants, the union, whore congresses ( yes, they call it whore congresses, and the legally working dommes show up there as well ). now tell me why it should be strange to call a domme a whore if they do it themselves? the german word for whore is "hure", and it´s used in a quite normal way. and the sex workers over here are loyal to each other, instead of trying to seperate from each other, only in that way they reached everything they have here now. think about that.

PeonForHer -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 7:34:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Rubbish comparison, your doctor or dentist gets paid, does that make them your servant or can they say "No peon, we're not going to give you boobs/fangs, find somebody else, not what we do or want to do!" You're going to a concert, you're paying to see a band, think they're your servants? You're fixing up somebody's house and they want you to do something you don't do (for whatever reasons), are you a servant who has to agree or can you tell them to buzz off? In case you agree and you do it, you're still your own agent and not a servant. Getting paid for something you do well and happen to enjoy doing doesn't make you a servant, it simply means you're a professional who can charge for a service and pick the people. The difference is that I have to feel that the woman is doing whatever she's doing because she wants to do it. It's part of the way I see a dominant. I can't feel that she's 'doing it for me'. I need to know that she's being selfish, in some very fundamental way. I couldn't bear the thought of faked excitement on her part. I find that thought really dismal.

LadyConstanze -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 9:28:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kainundeva well pro dommes ARE whores and that´s fully ok, i don´t see a problem with that. that´s what the pro stands for. pros pay their taxes, have their legal registered trade and pay their social security, regardless if they are dommes or "normal" whores. at least over here... there is no difference made. and they are in the same union. if you try to put the pro dommes on a higher level, you degrade "ordinary" whores with that, and they do not deserve that. because as there are dommes who do this for fun, i also know normal girls that do this for fun. i know a girl from another city that is in munich during the week to work in a brothel, without her husband knowing... he´s away during the week and she´s bored. on the other hand i know students who domme for earning money while studying, and i know a "normal" girl who finances her life with escort+ while studying to become a lawyer... i think the big problem is that some look down on "whores" and try to seperate themselves from that, and that is the real problem they should fix. Nobody looks down on escorts, it's just a different service, a plumber does something different than an electrician, they might be both tradesmen, but they don't do the same things. The only one who does look down and uses a derogatory term is you, calling somebody a whore is actually pretty insulting anywhere you go, it doesn't translate to the straight "Hure" that German prostitutes took as a label. Actually pro stands for professional and not prostitute, bet you're glad to know that now.

LadyConstanze -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 9:35:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kainundeva quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: Kainundeva well pro dommes ARE whores and that´s fully ok, i don´t see a problem with that. that´s what the pro stands for. pros pay their taxes, have their legal registered trade and pay their social security, regardless if they are dommes or "normal" whores. at least over here... there is no difference made. and they are in the same union. if you try to put the pro dommes on a higher level, you degrade "ordinary" whores with that, and they do not deserve that. because as there are dommes who do this for fun, i also know normal girls that do this for fun. i know a girl from another city that is in munich during the week to work in a brothel, without her husband knowing... he´s away during the week and she´s bored. on the other hand i know students who domme for earning money while studying, and i know a "normal" girl who finances her life with escort+ while studying to become a lawyer... i think the big problem is that some look down on "whores" and try to seperate themselves from that, and that is the real problem they should fix. Two things, first pro means professional and that means you get paid for it. It you have a problem with that concept, think about pro sports. Second...did you just call all dommes whores? Do you even know what a whore is? yes. it is a legal trade and they have a union over here, and i mean union like the transport workers union. registered under "special services - leisure tourism and wellness", they call themselves whores union and pro dommes are organised in that as well. don´t know about USA. i think you have a strange view over there on that matter anyway. whores just earn their money with sex, and they do call themselves whores, no matter if pro dommes or other sex workers. they walk together here. it´s funny that we are on a sm board and you still find that uptight views here. we don´t look down on whores, you know... http://www.hydra-ev.org/master/start.html is existing since 1980 and is since 1985 recieving government money for organising for example tax accountants, the union, whore congresses ( yes, they call it whore congresses, and the legally working dommes show up there as well ). now tell me why it should be strange to call a domme a whore if they do it themselves? the german word for whore is "hure", and it´s used in a quite normal way. and the sex workers over here are loyal to each other, instead of trying to seperate from each other, only in that way they reached everything they have here now. think about that. It's not the same word, trust me, I'm quite fluent in German (actually the first language I learned to speak) and Hure has a completely different connotation. And not a lot of dommes are involved in that union. As for "Hure" it also has a very very negative slant in German and the women have used that label to somehow reclaim it, a bit like "sluts" after Lush called a woman slut... As for it being used in a "normal way" - try and call a girl Hure and see how many teeth you got left. It doesn't mean dommes do look down on prostitutes, it simply means that there is a difference in what they do and it makes it a lot easier for somebody who is looking for a different experience to find somebody who's open to it. A guy who wants sex won't usually go to a pro domme, he will go to a kink friendly escort, and they usually call themselves bizarre ladies. It's not higher or lower in an order, it's simply so there is no confusion, upfront, a bit like a sign on a shop "We don't sell alcohol"

LadyConstanze -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 9:38:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer The difference is that I have to feel that the woman is doing whatever she's doing because she wants to do it. It's part of the way I see a dominant. I can't feel that she's 'doing it for me'. I need to know that she's being selfish, in some very fundamental way. I couldn't bear the thought of faked excitement on her part. I find that thought really dismal. You mean she should do it absolutely and selfishly for free, the fact that she might get paid for something she enjoys doing to you would ruin your fun because that's not selfish enough? You come up with all sorts of why it would be bad and horrible for you, that's like me going to the dentist, I work myself up in such a frenzy and fear, that I am convinced it's going to be bad and hurt, and guess what, then it usually does.

PeonForHer -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 9:48:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze You mean she should do it absolutely and selfishly for free, the fact that she might get paid for something she enjoys doing to you would ruin your fun because that's not selfish enough? Yes, I suppose. It would kill the buzz quite a lot for me. But, mainly, I couldn't stand the thought that she might be pretending. Whatever kinky act is going on doesn't matter a lot to me, either - I do have to know the right feeling is behind it. I've got to know that she really wants to dominate me for the sake of that alone. quote: You come up with all sorts of why it would be bad and horrible for you, that's like me going to the dentist, I work myself up in such a frenzy and fear, that I am convinced it's going to be bad and hurt, and guess what, then it usually does. I'm not scared of getting hurt as a result of seeing a pro-domme, I'm scared of getting depressed.

LadyConstanze -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 10:01:55 AM)
OK, then how do you manage to have sex with a girl? You never know if she's not pretending, she might be faking her orgasms? Seriously, if you try hard enough, you will find something that makes you doubt and wonder, it's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you want a bf/gf relationship with some kink, yes, seeing a pro domme is certainly not what you are looking for, you don't go to a restaurant if you want a home cooked meal. But the whole "what if she doesn't enjoy it, what if she just fakes it" thing can be applied to almost everything, like what if the girl you're dating is just not that into you but all she wants is a boyfriend so she puts up with you because she's fed up with being the single woman everywhere... What if the barmaid in your local pub doesn't like you and she's just friendly because it's her job, what if she doesn't mean "Hey great to see you..." The mindset of "they will be jaded, they don't like it, they are just faking it" can ruin almost everything, it's the glass being half empty or half full. Trust me, I know some dommes who really really enjoy what they are doing and they're good at it, and if you're a respectful guy they usually have fun, if somebody comes with "Oh you're only doing this for the money and you go through the motions" they send you packing or you do put them into the mindset of just going through the motions.

PeonForHer -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 10:11:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze OK, then how do you manage to have sex with a girl? I don't know. I can't remember. [:(] God, Lady C, you and your hub aren't planning to force me to go to a pro-Domme, are you? Bundled into a van, bound and gagged and with a cheque pinned to my chest?

LadyConstanze -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 1:47:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze OK, then how do you manage to have sex with a girl? I don't know. I can't remember. [:(] God, Lady C, you and your hub aren't planning to force me to go to a pro-Domme, are you? Bundled into a van, bound and gagged and with a cheque pinned to my chest? LOL, not saying the pro domme experience is right for everybody, but a lot of guys just want to experiment with something before they actually muster up the courage to talk to the gf, for some people it's just a fun experience, for others an outlet, some want to keep certain activities away from home... I just think you're making this far more complicated than it actually is, because you assume they are all jaded and bored, it's a bit like saying I'm not going to see my fave band in concert anymore, they must be so bored and jaded playing the songs everybody wants to hear... Though I do have a friend who is still working as a pro domme and I think you might just be her type, when I'm back on the continent, maybe I should invite both of you over and say she has the run of my box of tricks... Might just blow your mind ;)

PeonForHer -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 1:58:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Though I do have a friend who is still working as a pro domme and I think you might just be her type, when I'm back on the continent, maybe I should invite both of you over and say she has the run of my box of tricks... Might just blow your mind ;) Is this the same friend who ran off just before I arrived at your place? [;)] I think if I were to get the right vibe from a woman, pretty much anything would blow my mind. In fact, if said woman did nothing at all with whips, floggers, chains or anything else, she'd still blow my mind. You're talking to a man who once got a raging hard-on just because a femdom told him to go and buy her a packet of cigs, Lady C. It's all about the vibes . . . .

PeonForHer -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 4:27:50 PM)
The bottom line for me, Lady C, is that it absolutely cannot, ever, feel like a business transaction for me. I can't do that. It would destroy something in me that I can't allow to be destroyed. It isn't like I'm tight-fisted - in fact, I tend to empty my blasted bank account when I've just met a new woman, so my family and friends say - but I can't mix business and anything to do with partnerships (even temporary partnerships, of just maybe one hour). I just find that horrifying. It would be like the world has turned upside down to do such a thing, for me. I would rather wank with pictures and fantasies till I'm dead than do that.

LadyConstanze -> RE: The anti pro stance (4/17/2012 4:30:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Though I do have a friend who is still working as a pro domme and I think you might just be her type, when I'm back on the continent, maybe I should invite both of you over and say she has the run of my box of tricks... Might just blow your mind ;) Is this the same friend who ran off just before I arrived at your place? [;)] I think if I were to get the right vibe from a woman, pretty much anything would blow my mind. In fact, if said woman did nothing at all with whips, floggers, chains or anything else, she'd still blow my mind. You're talking to a man who once got a raging hard-on just because a femdom told him to go and buy her a packet of cigs, Lady C. It's all about the vibes . . . . I shouldn't have offered you mine then, seems that I ruined a perfectly good chance for you to get a hard on ;) And now I stopped smoking. Next time I just tell you "Bitch, go and polish my shoes" - and I won't ruin it for you by telling you that I don't want to have those leather boots cleaned, I'm just doing all for you, putting on a front and all that ;) Hey, you can come and clean my house anytime, I'm willing to suffer through that and feign enthusiasm ;)

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