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RE: The anti pro stance - 4/17/2012 4:53:33 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Next time I just tell you "Bitch, go and polish my shoes" - and I won't ruin it for you by telling you that I don't want to have those leather boots cleaned, I'm just doing all for you, putting on a front and all that ;) Hey, you can come and clean my house anytime, I'm willing to suffer through that and feign enthusiasm ;)


See, that'd work for me. A femdom friend with a malesub friend - why not?

Tut. You should have thought of that when I was last there, Lady C. You could have saved yourself a lot of domestic effort. ;-)

Mind you, you'd have needed to have worn lipstick. No true Domme forgets to wear lipstick. But you did. Unprofessional, Lady C, unprofessional.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/17/2012 5:20:15 PM   
TNDommeK


Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

OK, then how do you manage to have sex with a girl?


I don't know. I can't remember.

God, Lady C, you and your hub aren't planning to *force* me to go to a pro-Domme, are you? Bundled into a van, bound and gagged and with a cheque pinned to my chest?



Bring him to Me! Bwuhahahahaha!!

But seriously, to Kainundeva, I'm not sure where you are from, as I didn't check your profile; but here, things are different. I hope the people on here have given you some insight to how things roll.

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell


(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/17/2012 10:25:23 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Privileged

I’ll preface my questions by saying I am not a professional domme. However, the abuse and attitude I see pro dommes dealing with is troubling. It seems like men who would benefit the most from a pro session are the most vocal about being anti pro. I’m not talking about those seeking a mutually beneficial relationship. I’m talking about men who are solely seeking their own satisfaction.

I see a lot of “do it because you love/enjoy/want it” statements. In the case of pain enthusiasts, would you really risk serious injury at the hands of an amateur to avoid paying a professional dominant? I would think a pro domme would know best how to provide after care. Is that not an important enough factor in fetish play?

If your aversion to pro sessions goes deeper than “PRO DUMMES R WHORES”, I’d love to hear your thoughts.




Well, thankfully (for this conversation) I'm a professional male sub.

I've offered to do table dancing.....even have my nipples pierced (with proper remuneration, natch).

At 53, I'll admit, the calls are coming in slower (fine...I don't exercise all that much).....but you know...I'm a giver....it's what I'm known for.

It's troubling for me to see the lack of enthusiasm....but I deal with it....

I'm here to win.

(in reply to Privileged)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 1:43:36 AM   
Kainundeva


Posts: 79
Joined: 2/12/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

OK, then how do you manage to have sex with a girl?


I don't know. I can't remember.

God, Lady C, you and your hub aren't planning to *force* me to go to a pro-Domme, are you? Bundled into a van, bound and gagged and with a cheque pinned to my chest?



Bring him to Me! Bwuhahahahaha!!

But seriously, to Kainundeva, I'm not sure where you are from, as I didn't check your profile; but here, things are different. I hope the people on here have given you some insight to how things roll.


munich. but as i´ve been told now the term "whore" and the german word "hure" are obviously not the same. ( and yes, i know that pro stands for professional. professional sex service in that term, even as a pro domme. don´t tell me this has nothing to do with sex ).

just to explain: when i still been to school, my parents neighbour owned one of the better bordellos in munich, he was a very nice guy and a friend, he had his boat right next to our boat down in ibiza, he also had a house in australia where he lived during the winter and my parents were down there very often. his wife once worked for him and then he married her.
there has always been lots of girls around on the barbecues and partys, and some were nice, some were strange, just like "normal" people too. and most were working out of their own will, some out of fun, some becaue it was a convenient way to earn money, only a few because they had a lazy husband or bf at home that sent them there. when i was living on my own and my parents moved to the countryside, we slowly lost contact to him... pity. that was 20 years ago.
out of that experience, the only girls there that had a problem with calling them what they were were the ones that did not stay long in that job anyway.
and for the others, the real pros that liked their job: i NEVER met girls with that much self esteem anyway. and they were the ones that called themself "huren" with quite a bit of pride.
and the only ones that looked down on them and called them worthless were conservative bourgeois and the little would-be pimps that tried to get noticed. as the boyfriends of some of the girls that showed up sometimes on parties, very unpleasant people.

i just can´t see why sex workers ( lets keep that term ) try to seperate themselves from each other so furiously if they do not have a problem with their job and with who they are.
but i acknowledge that maybe because it´s kind of a normal job in my view and maybe because people in western europe have a entirely different view on sex as americans have and maybe because of strange people like your santorum that you are probably right to make a seperation in the USA.

so with this, being a bit sorry to having caused a bit of confusion, i just disconnect from this thread, as i think it is an internal american thing and i cannot deliver anything useful to it.

(in reply to TNDommeK)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 3:16:56 AM   
MissKittyDeVine


Posts: 1054
Joined: 9/24/2011
Status: offline 		Please do get it into your head: Pro domming has nothing to do with sex. Your exposure to sex workers may make you think that you are an expert on the subject, but it seems to have given you a rather warped attitude towards Pro Dommes, a subject about which it appears you know nothing.

You´re right, you have nothing useful to add since you are merely posting lengthy diatribes based on your self-proclaimed expertise.

_____________________________

Sanity is overrated. Live la vida loca

(in reply to Kainundeva)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 4:31:59 AM   
Kainundeva


Posts: 79
Joined: 2/12/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissKittyDeVine

Please do get it into your head: Pro domming has nothing to do with sex.



now this makes me scratch my head. according to this a male sub never gets a hard on by being dominated by a pro? come on... is sex for you only fucking?

(in reply to MissKittyDeVine)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 6:15:16 AM   
MissKittyDeVine


Posts: 1054
Joined: 9/24/2011
Status: offline 		Asking questions about my private life is rude and offensive. Do you come here just to be obnoxious?

As for my professional life, since it seems I have to spell it out: I DO NOT HAVE ANY SEXUAL CONTACT OR ACTIVITY WITH SUBS.


_____________________________

Sanity is overrated. Live la vida loca

(in reply to Kainundeva)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 7:53:27 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Nah. Kaiundeva is correct here. In places like Germany and Australia, where sex work is regulated, prodommes have no problem being considered sex workers, and in some places even need to obtain licenses that say exactly that. 100% of the time, when I have heard a prodomme say that what she does has nothing to do with sex, it has been someone based in the United States. This is a non-argument, arising from different cultures and laws.

You don't have to have sex with your clients to engage in activities that have a lot to do with sex. If there's no erotic charge whatsoever, you're a life coach, not a professional dominant.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to MissKittyDeVine)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 8:05:54 AM   
MissKittyDeVine


Posts: 1054
Joined: 9/24/2011
Status: offline 		That is your opinion and judgement, and has nothing to do with culture or laws.



_____________________________

Sanity is overrated. Live la vida loca

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 8:11:03 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissKittyDeVine
That is your opinion and judgement, and has nothing to do with culture or laws.

If it has nothing to do with laws, then why are you posting on an adults-only site? Are you saying that you would be willing to engage in the same absolutely nonsexual activities with a 13-year-old? Why not a prepubescent child, since sex is completely irrelevant?

If you are willing to acknowledge that you engage in "behavior for adults only," then culture, laws, unspoken social rules -- all that stuff -- absolutely do matter.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to MissKittyDeVine)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 8:25:31 AM   
MissKittyDeVine


Posts: 1054
Joined: 9/24/2011
Status: offline 		Are you for real? Surely when we are referring to legal aspects here we are talking about laws concerning BDSM?

Implying that I would be willing to engage in BDSM activities with a minor ... you disgust me.

_____________________________

Sanity is overrated. Live la vida loca

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 8:27:33 AM   
MissKittyDeVine


Posts: 1054
Joined: 9/24/2011
Status: offline 		Oh, and before you twist that, no I would never engage in sexual activities with a minor either.

And since you also seem to need this pointing out: many subs enjoy serving WITHOUT getting sexual gratification. Don´t judge everyone by your own narrow viewpoint.

< Message edited by MissKittyDeVine -- 4/18/2012 8:29:16 AM >

_____________________________

Sanity is overrated. Live la vida loca

(in reply to MissKittyDeVine)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 8:45:43 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissKittyDeVine
many subs enjoy serving WITHOUT getting sexual gratification.

I'm aware of this. In fact, it's something I've done, though you may not believe it.

But there's a profound adult and erotic theme in BDSM. There just is. You are defining "sex" and "sexual" extremely narrowly, and, to be honest, I don't think the two of us are disagreeing at all. I'm stuck in the somewhat bizarre position of knowing that I offended you, and yet, while reading your last two posts, you seem to have agreed with me completely.

In any event, I hope you have a good afternoon.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to MissKittyDeVine)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 8:59:26 AM   
Kainundeva


Posts: 79
Joined: 2/12/2012
Status: offline 		found this:

quote:


Even without providing sex, a prosecuter and jury may construe pro domme work as sex work, and so illegal. We're told that being paid to touch an erogenous zone with (assumed/inferred) intent to arouse qualifies as prostitution, independent of your actual intent. That could include spanking. We're advised to consider pro domme work as not legal. Much is at the discretion of law enforcement, prosecutors, and juries. Consult legal counsel.


did not know that. in a morally repressive climate you have to be very careful, so i understand now where this sharp divide comes from.
a lot of pro dommes here do things which would be illegal in US, here they don´t have to restrain themselves. only thing that is forbidden here are pain killer injections, because only docs and medics are allowed to do that. it´s being done nevertheless, has been showing up in the newspapers recently.

law is different here: sex workers raise their children without problems with the law as long as they are not on drugs, but a domme who had her studio in her house was sentenced for exposing her kid to violence to 6 months on probation.


< Message edited by Kainundeva -- 4/18/2012 9:30:14 AM >

(in reply to MissKittyDeVine)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 9:31:50 AM   
MissKittyDeVine


Posts: 1054
Joined: 9/24/2011
Status: offline 		I don´t think you have any idea at all about my views. Unless you´re prepared to apologise for your grossly offensive implications, I have nothing more to say to you. And I do not agree with you. You must be misinterpreting what I say.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissKittyDeVine
many subs enjoy serving WITHOUT getting sexual gratification.

I'm aware of this. In fact, it's something I've done, though you may not believe it.

But there's a profound adult and erotic theme in BDSM. There just is. You are defining "sex" and "sexual" extremely narrowly, and, to be honest, I don't think the two of us are disagreeing at all. I'm stuck in the somewhat bizarre position of knowing that I offended you, and yet, while reading your last two posts, you seem to have agreed with me completely.

In any event, I hope you have a good afternoon.



< Message edited by MissKittyDeVine -- 4/18/2012 9:33:44 AM >

_____________________________

Sanity is overrated. Live la vida loca

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 9:40:30 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		I implied that of course you dominate adults only. You agreed with me. Your separation between sexuality and BDSM is completely along the lines of US law in conservative jurisdictions. That's why the conversation seemed over to me. I certainly wish you no ill will.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to MissKittyDeVine)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 11:58:47 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissKittyDeVine

Please do get it into your head: Pro domming has nothing to do with sex. Your exposure to sex workers may make you think that you are an expert on the subject, but it seems to have given you a rather warped attitude towards Pro Dommes, a subject about which it appears you know nothing.

You´re right, you have nothing useful to add since you are merely posting lengthy diatribes based on your self-proclaimed expertise.



Sorry, I have been a pro domme, and if you say it has nothing to do with sex you are kidding yourself, it has everything to do with sex and you are a sex worker, you are not an escort and you don't have sexual contact with clients, but their motivation and why they come to see you is sexual, it might not be sexual gratification but it's sexually driven. Or how often do you encounter guys who truly don't care what the domme looks like? The whole attire is sexually arousing (corsets, leather, boots, whips, chains, etc.) and how often will guys pick dommes they find physically repulsive? Sexual attraction seems to be the most important aspect.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to MissKittyDeVine)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 12:22:52 PM   
Bhruic


Posts: 985
Joined: 4/11/2012
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissKittyDeVine

Are you for real? Surely when we are referring to legal aspects here we are talking about laws concerning BDSM?

Implying that I would be willing to engage in BDSM activities with a minor ... you disgust me.


He was not implying that you would at all. He was just illustrating the silliness of the claim that D/s has nothing to do with sex.

(in reply to MissKittyDeVine)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 12:39:58 PM   
TNDommeK


Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline 		See My first quote signature.


Done with trying to convince people what I do and don't do; what I am, and what I am not. Opinions are abundant here, which is good, as I enjoy finding out what makes people individuals; but they certainly don't have any bearing on Me or My life.

At the end of the day, I can sleep at night, and that is all that matters.

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell


(in reply to Bhruic)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: The anti pro stance - 4/18/2012 2:26:20 PM   
MissKittyDeVine


Posts: 1054
Joined: 9/24/2011
Status: offline 		I´m with you, TN - I´m done on this subject, the offensive attitudes towards pro dommes, and probably with this place too, since it is just as intolerant as any other place of differences. Lady C, you may have been a prodomme, but that does not mean that you define pro domination. I had a session recently where I did not wear corset, boots, leather etc and there were no whips or chains involved. I dislike clichés.

RedMagic said, and I quote, ´Are you saying that you would be willing to engage in the same absolutely nonsexual activities with a 13-year-old? Why not a prepubescent child, since sex is completely irrelevant?´, that was trying to put words into my mouth that I found extremely offensive. Nobody seems capable of differentiating between sex and sexuality.

And now I´m going to take TN´s good advice.

_____________________________

Sanity is overrated. Live la vida loca

(in reply to TNDommeK)
Profile   Post #: 140
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