Maintenance Discipline (Full Version)

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Wisdomseeker -> Maintenance Discipline (3/24/2012 6:05:16 AM)

Have you ever seen a parent tell their child not to do something, then watched the child look right at them and do it anyways?

In the last relationship I was in, my kitten had come from a string of horrendously abusive relationships and therefore equated being beaten savagely with being loved. I didn't realize this at first, and just thought she was causing trouble for troubles sake. I work from home, so I was always around her, but I still needed my space to work effectively (because I CAN'T get any work done with her wigglin' around).

I spoke to her about this and laid out the rules (9am-1pm work time, hour break, 2pm-4pm work, then off for the rest of the day)and the penalty for breaking them (spanking with various implements, corner time etc), and thought everything would be fine. The next day she KEPT coming into my office for no reason, but I screwed up, because I didn't keep to my own rules. Because of this she just escalated her misbehavior until the next day while I was working she jimmied the door open, sauntered in, unplugged my pc and ran off. This made me livid beyond livid and it took all I had not to go past my own rules when disciplining her.

I told a friend my situation and he suggested "Maintenance Discipline", essentially discipline for the sake of discipline, so that things don't get out of hand.

It worked 110%, and instantly fixed my situation. Routine is important, since it gives a sense of solidarity, so the maintenance was always at the same time. Hopefully this helps someone like it did me.



MistressDarkArt -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/24/2012 5:17:34 PM)

Either way she regularly gets the attention she wants from you, now doesn't she?

Welcome to the boards, btw!



JanahX -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/24/2012 5:25:26 PM)

quote:

I told a friend my situation and he suggested "Maintenance Discipline", essentially discipline for the sake of discipline, so that things don't get out of hand.


What do you mean "discipline for the sake of discipline". Please explain.



SinFix -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/24/2012 5:47:54 PM)

ummm ok glad that "worked" for you. Though all I see is her getting the attention she was wanting in the first place.



JeffBC -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/24/2012 5:59:26 PM)

I know a couple in real life for whom this works also. For them it isn't so much "discipline" per-se, but rather it helps her to feel like she's in that slave mindset that she craves. I do wonder if you're confusing "discipline" with something else though. It sounds to me more like you're feeding some sense of insecurity in her rather than instilling anything like discipline.



risktaker9 -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/24/2012 6:05:40 PM)

So, she manipulated you into doing what she wanted, sweet.



RedMagic1 -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/24/2012 7:08:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wisdomseeker

Have you ever seen a parent tell their child not to do something, then watched the child look right at them and do it anyways?

In the last relationship I was in, my kitten had come from a string of horrendously abusive relationships and therefore equated being beaten savagely with being loved. I didn't realize this at first, and just thought she was causing trouble for troubles sake. I work from home, so I was always around her, but I still needed my space to work effectively (because I CAN'T get any work done with her wigglin' around).

I spoke to her about this and laid out the rules (9am-1pm work time, hour break, 2pm-4pm work, then off for the rest of the day)and the penalty for breaking them (spanking with various implements, corner time etc), and thought everything would be fine. The next day she KEPT coming into my office for no reason, but I screwed up, because I didn't keep to my own rules. Because of this she just escalated her misbehavior until the next day while I was working she jimmied the door open, sauntered in, unplugged my pc and ran off. This made me livid beyond livid and it took all I had not to go past my own rules when disciplining her.

I told a friend my situation and he suggested "Maintenance Discipline", essentially discipline for the sake of discipline, so that things don't get out of hand.

It worked 110%, and instantly fixed my situation. Routine is important, since it gives a sense of solidarity, so the maintenance was always at the same time. Hopefully this helps someone like it did me.


You might enjoy this essay, and find it useful.

http://lauragoodwin.org/sam.htm



DesFIP -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/24/2012 7:14:02 PM)

Red, doesn't sound like she's a SAM but that she equates being cared for with being beaten. Not that she has pain needs per se.

I've read about inner city schools where a teacher finally got so upset at work never being done that he asked the kid why he never did it. The response was that the teacher didn't really want it done or he would backhand the kid. Because to that kid, that's what told him that the demand was serious.

OP, if you folks have any health insurance, get her some therapy.



angelikaJ -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/24/2012 7:28:16 PM)

That is one way of handling it.

The other way is that since being spanked is in essence a reward for her, to not use spanking at all as part of discipline. Instead spanking is the reward for good behavior.

However, as you noticed if you are going to shape someone's behavior that way they tend to increase the negative behaviors before you extinguish them.



NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/24/2012 8:08:51 PM)

It sounds like she needs some therapy to work out some issues so she doesn't equate abuse with being loved. That being said, let's move along.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wisdomseeker
I spoke to her about this and laid out the rules (9am-1pm work time, hour break, 2pm-4pm work, then off for the rest of the day)and the penalty for breaking them (spanking with various implements, corner time etc), and thought everything would be fine.

So you laid out the rules very clearly including work times and non-work times. So far, so good.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wisdomseeker
The next day she KEPT coming into my office for no reason, but I screwed up, because I didn't keep to my own rules. Because of this she just escalated her misbehavior until the next day while I was working she jimmied the door open, sauntered in, unplugged my pc and ran off. This made me livid beyond livid and it took all I had not to go past my own rules when disciplining her.

Then she repeatedly, purposely and with a cocky attitude, forced her way into your office KNOWING that it was during your WORK time to disrupt what you were doing. This insured that your attention was on HER, which is exactly what she wanted in the first place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wisdomseeker
I told a friend my situation and he suggested "Maintenance Discipline", essentially discipline for the sake of discipline, so that things don't get out of hand. It worked 110%, and instantly fixed my situation. Routine is important, since it gives a sense of solidarity, so the maintenance was always at the same time. Hopefully this helps someone like it did me.

So with this "Maintenance Discipline" she is getting still more attention, which is what she wanted in the first place. Your maintenance discipline didn't "fix" anything really, it just gave her even more attention. You just caved in to her manipulative, attention-seeking behaviors.

Were it me with a submissive that did that, the repercussions would NOT include giving him more attention. It would be something that he would NOT like and it would NOT involve giving him any further attention until after the discipline was finished. Then after the discipline time was over, we'd discuss what he learned, if anything, from it and how he would insure that the behavior would not be repeated. If he kept repeating it after that, he would be shown the door.

NBMG



littlewonder -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/24/2012 9:08:39 PM)

That wouldn't work in our relationship. In fact it would clearly end our relationship because we don't do naughty or bratty or acting like a child. He expects me to be an adult and be responsible. If I were to cause him not to be able to work he'd simply say enough was enough and I was free to leave. Pulling a plug on a computer? How did she know if you had not saved your work or not? If that happened it could have cost you hundreds, thousands and even millions of dollars depending on what type of work you do at home. That's beyond being bratty to me.

Your girl needs therapy and you need to stop trying to rescue her and tell her to grow up and act responsibly.



Focus50 -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/24/2012 10:11:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wisdomseeker

Have you ever seen a parent tell their child not to do something, then watched the child look right at them and do it anyways?

In the last relationship I was in, my kitten had come from a string of horrendously abusive relationships and therefore equated being beaten savagely with being loved. I didn't realize this at first, and just thought she was causing trouble for troubles sake. I work from home, so I was always around her, but I still needed my space to work effectively (because I CAN'T get any work done with her wigglin' around).

I spoke to her about this and laid out the rules (9am-1pm work time, hour break, 2pm-4pm work, then off for the rest of the day)and the penalty for breaking them (spanking with various implements, corner time etc), and thought everything would be fine. The next day she KEPT coming into my office for no reason, but I screwed up, because I didn't keep to my own rules. Because of this she just escalated her misbehavior until the next day while I was working she jimmied the door open, sauntered in, unplugged my pc and ran off. This made me livid beyond livid and it took all I had not to go past my own rules when disciplining her.

I told a friend my situation and he suggested "Maintenance Discipline", essentially discipline for the sake of discipline, so that things don't get out of hand.

It worked 110%, and instantly fixed my situation. Routine is important, since it gives a sense of solidarity, so the maintenance was always at the same time. Hopefully this helps someone like it did me.


Three things come to mind, to me.

First, I'd never reward misbehaviour from my girl with the giving of my attention - beyond banishing her from my sight.

Second, my sense of justice wouldn't permit this "Maintenance Discipline", because that's getting into the murky area of abuse. All things are earned, including being punished.

Third, if it has fixed your problem to your satisfaction, then I can't and won't argue with that. But I also can't help but think that she's manipulated your new found respite. Things that keep me awake at nights.... You don't really cure an oil leak by no longer topping up the oil - you just get a bigger problem later....

Others suggest she needs therapy. Certainly, she pushes because she can, AND it gets an obviously desired result. Without being there, I don't know what the best solution is - but I really don't like being manipulated. (read: managed) That's just not on!

Focus.



Winterapple -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/24/2012 10:23:59 PM)

FR
Her behavior was childish and needy but
the background information puts it into
perspective somewhat. She needs therapy.
Intense longterm therapy I'm guessing.
I can see where people are interpreting
your solution as plugging a hole instead
of building and fortifying but if you were
satisfied with the outcome that's what
matters. To each their own.
I think discipline instead of reward and
punishment works very well for a
great many people. Punishment is the
gold standard for some people but not
for others.
And there any number of thriving D/s
and M/s relationships where there is
no punishment.



mynxkat -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/24/2012 10:59:39 PM)

Some really good points here to consider. Getting your girl into therapy is one good start, associating abuse with love is NOT a healthy mindset even if YOU personally don't actually abuse her. Don't get too comfortable with the whole maintainance discipline thing, it's probably not gonna take long with that before she starts acting out again looking for even more attention, since she's already learned from you that acting out WILL get her that attention.

In your shoes, I'd also recommend a complete rethink of punishments for when she does things that are not acceptable to you. Since she so obviously craves attention, standing her in a corner with her nose in the corner might work. Sitting alone at a desk or a table writing out lines is another possibility ('I will not interrupt Master during his working hours.' a hundred times or so). Present spankings as rewards for very good behavior, and if she's been extra good, let her pick what she gets spanked with.

ETA: Just realized you spoke in past tense, and from your profile I gather that relationship no long exists. Anyway, my points still stand as thoughts to consider if you run into a similar situation in the future.






ProlificNeeds -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/25/2012 6:04:35 AM)

FR~
She sounds like... a bratty child who is only happy when she gets her way, not an abused victim. You should be correcting her bahvioral issues not feeding them.

Frankly anyone not mature enough to leave me alone to work when I ask, is not mature enough to be in a relationship with me... or even be friends with me for that matter.


I wish you all the best.



LizDeluxe -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/25/2012 6:17:05 AM)

What you delivered was not maintenance discipline (if such a thing even exists). It was the discipline that should have been meted out before the situation became untenable. What you described is the clearest case of a submissive topping from the bottom to get what she wants that I have ever heard of. Had that situation happened to me (and it would never have gotten to that point) I doubt she would ever act out again in that fashion once I finished. She would probably pack her things and leave which would be fine with me. I have no time for such "submissives" as that.



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/25/2012 6:22:06 AM)

This:


quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds

FR~
She sounds like... a bratty child who is only happy when she gets her way, not an abused victim. You should be correcting her bahvioral issues not feeding them.

Frankly anyone not mature enough to leave me alone to work when I ask, is not mature enough to be in a relationship with me... or even be friends with me for that matter.


I wish you all the best.


And I have to add that I agree with others have said, you bought into her need for attention by giving her more attention. Also, per your own admission, you laid down a rule and then immediately allowed her to break it.

You don't reward an attention seeker with more attention, and you don't give someone who DEMANDS spankings more spankings. This is not good dominant behavior.

Unless and until you can lay down firm guidelines and not let this supposed sub manipulate you, I predict her behavior will continue to escalate.



Kana -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/25/2012 7:30:44 AM)

I don't know anything about discipline for the sake of discipline, but I do know that I don't care much for making the same mistake repeatedly, brattiness, childishness and pouting.
And God help her if show unplugged my computer intentionally once, much less twice.
I'da slapped her fucking silly then tossed her ass forcibly outta the house.
I have zero tolerance for insubordination. None at all. Flagrant disrespect is just flat out rude and I have no truck with and/or for it.

That said, I work off three base ideas, works well for me.

1-Be fair but firm.
2-Be consistent
3-Never by shy to reward good behavior



CaptJosh -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/25/2012 7:31:30 AM)

Still, I think the OP is helpful, as an example of what NOT to do. It reads like a Dr. Phil episode with a spoiled child. I could just hear his voice saying, "You're having a battle of wills with your submissive, and she's winning!" As well as his trademark "What the hell were you thinking?!"

Although it does seem like this is in the past, she did top you from the bottom OP. Not a healthy D/s relationship.



WestBaySlave -> RE: Maintenance Discipline (3/25/2012 11:24:06 AM)

OP - leaving aside the issue of discipline, which I feel others have covered better than I could on this thread, what caused your relationship with her to end? Was it related to this issue or something else?



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