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RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/5/2012 11:29:24 PM

Posts: 7683
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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Personally, I don't think Zimmerman is a racist.

I think he is a cop wannabe that saw too many Charles Bronson flicks and found himself in over his head.

DING DING DING! We have a winner. I'm willing to bet that what you are saying is the bare truth. Doesn't mean Zimmerman shouldn't escape consequences. We have a problem in this country where any death of a black person that happens at the hands of someone who isn't a black person (and not gang/drug related) MUST be caused by racism. I won't dispute that often it happens out of hate, but it isn't always a hate based on race, but rather simply hate of one person for another for whatever reason.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 12:56:58 AM

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quote:

Zimmerman wasnt in danger, since the dispatcher told him not to follow the kid.

No, the dispatcher absolutely did not tell him that.
Nor would Zimmerman have been under any legal burden to obey said "order" had it been given.
Further, even had such an "order" been given, and obeyed, would it have constituted some magical shield protecting Zimmerman from attack?
No, it manifestly would not.
That's why people carry guns, btw: To protect themselves from attack.

< Message edited by truckinslave -- 4/6/2012 1:26:13 AM >

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 12:59:42 AM

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Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

someone is stupid enough to go to overtown on a saturday night and stand on top of his car yelling racial slurs, he doesn't have the right to defense any more. He put himself in that situation.

You're saying that if someone offends me I have the right to assault them? Kill them?
Not in our society.
Georgia at one time had such a "fighting words" law or doctrine.... 40 or 50 years ago.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 2:48:44 AM

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Zimmerman wasnt in danger, since the dispatcher told him not to follow the kid.

No, the dispatcher absolutely did not tell him that.
Nor would Zimmerman have been under any legal burden to obey said "order" had it been given.
Further, even had such an "order" been given, and obeyed, would it have constituted some magical shield protecting Zimmerman from attack?
No, it manifestly would not.
That's why people carry guns, btw: To protect themselves from attack.

A simple web search would stop you looking stupid.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/us/911-tapes-released-in-killing-of-florida-teenager.html

quote:

Then he got out of the car with his licensed 9-millimeter pistol, and a worried dispatcher asked: “Are you following him? O.K., you don’t need to do that.”

At that point, Trayvon ran, and Mr. Zimmerman continued to follow. The dispatcher told him to wait for the police. A suggestion was made that Mr. Zimmerman and the police should meet by a mailbox. But then Mr. Zimmerman changed his mind. “Actually, could you have him call me and I’ll tell him where I’m at.”

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 2:53:55 AM

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No one of any sense on this side of the pond quotes the Slimes anymore.

The dispatcher said: "We don't need you to do that".
He didn't even make a suggestion as to what Mr Zimmerman should or should not do.
Listen to the tape yourself.
No, I'm not going to find it for you; I'm getting tired of the repeated misinformation in the case.

Don't feel too bad.
Unless you're stupid enough to quote the times again.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 3:29:07 AM

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

No one of any sense on this side of the pond quotes the Slimes anymore.

The dispatcher said: "We don't need you to do that".
He didn't even make a suggestion as to what Mr Zimmerman should or should not do.
Listen to the tape yourself.
No, I'm not going to find it for you; I'm getting tired of the repeated misinformation in the case.

Don't feel too bad.
Unless you're stupid enough to quote the times again.

Blame the messenger and ignore the facts.

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 3:48:37 AM

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Either you have not listened to the tape, or you are implying my quotation is wrong.

So you're some combination of lazy and mendacious.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 3:55:05 AM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

No one of any sense on this side of the pond quotes the Slimes anymore.

The dispatcher said: "We don't need you to do that".
He didn't even make a suggestion as to what Mr Zimmerman should or should not do.
Listen to the tape yourself.
No, I'm not going to find it for you; I'm getting tired of the repeated misinformation in the case.

Don't feel too bad.
Unless you're stupid enough to quote the times again.

A *reasonable and prudent* person would have taken the dispatcher's advice, especially if Zimmerman wasn't lying when he said he was concerned about Trayvon Martin being "on drugs or something".

Does a reasonable and prudent person disregard professional advice to remain safe when there's indication of potential danger?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 3:59:41 AM

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Either you have not listened to the tape, or you are implying my quotation is wrong.

So you're some combination of lazy and mendacious.

If you have proof show it. It isnt hard.

Every transcript I have read says the same as the NYT.

I like your implication that the words you used "We dont need you to do that" are not, at the very least, a suggestion. At the very least it shows at that point Martyn was walking a way, so chasing after him is hardly "Standing your ground"

One of us posted a link, work out for yourself who is lazy and mendacious and who isnt.

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 5:57:42 AM

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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I'll agree with that to a point but if someone is stupid enough to go to overtown on a saturday night and stand on top of his car yelling racial slurs, he doesn't have the right to defense any more. He put himself in that situation.

In other words, if you leave safety and go out of your way to do something monumentally stupid, you lose those rights of defense.

Dude, you know that while we disagree, I have a huge amount of respect for you. Right?

You can't seriously be saying that if someone shouts racial epithets, they deserve to die?

Look, I'm not recommending a trip to Hunt's Point to yell the "N word" at random passers-by but, if racial epithets are enough to merit a death penalty, I want Jackson and Sharpton strapped to a medical table for lethal injection, post-haste!

During the Tawana Brawley mess, Sharpton (frequently) said: "Of course they're racists. Look at the color of their skin!"

Peace and comfort,

Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 4/6/2012 5:59:14 AM >

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 6:05:32 AM

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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

That's why people carry guns, btw: To protect themselves from attack.

Do they follow those people, provoking those attacks?

Look, I don't give a damn whether Zimmerman is a racist, a papist, a baker, a dreamer, a hero, a dickhead, a dance instructor, or father of the year. He needlessly ("We don't need you to do that") aggravated and escalated a situation that left a teenager dead (whatever that teen was/wasn't doing).

That's grounds for a jury to sort this out.

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 6:58:12 AM

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Joined: 2/10/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I'll agree with that to a point but if someone is stupid enough to go to overtown on a saturday night and stand on top of his car yelling racial slurs, he doesn't have the right to defense any more. He put himself in that situation.

In other words, if you leave safety and go out of your way to do something monumentally stupid, you lose those rights of defense.

Dude, you know that while we disagree, I have a huge amount of respect for you. Right?

You can't seriously be saying that if someone shouts racial epithets, they deserve to die?

Look, I'm not recommending a trip to Hunt's Point to yell the "N word" at random passers-by but, if racial epithets are enough to merit a death penalty, I want Jackson and Sharpton strapped to a medical table for lethal injection, post-haste!

During the Tawana Brawley mess, Sharpton (frequently) said: "Of course they're racists. Look at the color of their skin!"

Peace and comfort,

Michael

I had a different interpretation of what he said.
Imagine someone going to an Oakland football game and screaming "The Raiders suck ass, go 49ers!" at the top of your lungs.
Imagine going to Israel and then standing up on a bus and shouting "Allah Akbar."
There is such a thing as a Darwin award. It isn't so much that someone deserves death for racism as that they deserve death for terminal stupidity...

_____________________________

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Ignored: ThompsonX, RealOne (so folks know why I don't reply)

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(in reply to DaddySatyr)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 7:33:33 AM

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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

I had a different interpretation of what he said.
Imagine someone going to an Oakland football game and screaming "The Raiders suck ass, go 49ers!" at the top of your lungs.
Imagine going to Israel and then standing up on a bus and shouting "Allah Akbar."
There is such a thing as a Darwin award. It isn't so much that someone deserves death for racism as that they deserve death for terminal stupidity...

I know what the Darwin awards are and they're a lot of fun.

I thought we were having a serious discussion. To even hint at the idea that someone loses their right to self preservation because they do something stupid is completely insane.

Think back and see if you've ever done something stupid that might have ended up, a lot worse if luck hadn't been with you.

I know that I have put myself in some stupid situations, at times. I like to think I didn't give up my right to life.

You want rabid sports fans? The old Football stadium in Philadelphia was the only one in the country that had an araignment court in it (I haven't been to the new one) and I've gone there, bedecked in my JAY! EEE! TEE! ESS! JETS!!! JETS!!! JETS!!! regalia. I wasn't abdicating my right to life.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 4/6/2012 7:34:11 AM >

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to SoftBonds)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 8:11:37 AM

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I'll agree with that to a point but if someone is stupid enough to go to overtown on a saturday night and stand on top of his car yelling racial slurs, he doesn't have the right to defense any more. He put himself in that situation.

In other words, if you leave safety and go out of your way to do something monumentally stupid, you lose those rights of defense.

Dude, you know that while we disagree, I have a huge amount of respect for you. Right?

You can't seriously be saying that if someone shouts racial epithets, they deserve to die?

Look, I'm not recommending a trip to Hunt's Point to yell the "N word" at random passers-by but, if racial epithets are enough to merit a death penalty, I want Jackson and Sharpton strapped to a medical table for lethal injection, post-haste!

During the Tawana Brawley mess, Sharpton (frequently) said: "Of course they're racists. Look at the color of their skin!"

Peace and comfort,

Michael

That's why I specified overtown. That is probably one of the least safe, most crime infested places on the planet. It's one of the only places Ive ever felt the need to travel armed and I kept a very low profile. Think "slums of Rio". People have been dragged out of their cars and beaten in that area for no other reason than the color of their skin. I was pointing out that if someone does something that monumentally stupid, he's bucking for a Darwin award and really doesn't have a lot of business staying on the planet.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 8:24:44 AM

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Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

Does a reasonable and prudent person disregard professional advice to remain safe when there's indication of potential danger?

1. Zimmerman did not receive such advice
2. Zimmerman's reasonableness and prudence are not the issue.

The issue is whether or not Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.
I do not see any potential case hinging on the idea that Trayvon had the right to assault Zimmerman because he left his vehicle to check an address.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 8:27:10 AM

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

work out for yourself who is lazy and mendacious and who isnt.

Been there done that.

You make an inference from the proper quote that I do not.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 8:40:55 AM

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

Every transcript I have read says the same as the NYT.

Why don't you try listening? From your own daily mail Bottom recording. 1:55 or so.

Are you following him?
Yeah
We don't need you to do that.
OKAY

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 8:46:33 AM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Does a reasonable and prudent person disregard professional advice to remain safe when there's indication of potential danger?

1. Zimmerman did not receive such advice
2. Zimmerman's reasonableness and prudence are not the issue.

The issue is whether or not Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.
I do not see any potential case hinging on the idea that Trayvon had the right to assault Zimmerman because he left his vehicle to check an address.

Trayvon couldn't have attacked Zimmerman, since Zimmerman was a threat to Trayvon Martin's safety first.

Only one of them was armed with a firearm.

Only one of them was chasing after the other.

Here's a thing. IF YOU'RE SO RIGHT. You go chasing after a COP AT NIGHT WHILE CARRYING A FIREARM... See how close you get before the cop considers you a threat to his safety, and then see how much closer you can get before he justifiably kills you.

If Zimmerman was any closer than that at any point, then Zimmerman clearly cannot get over the 776.041 requirements before claiming 776.013(3).

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 8:50:37 AM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Every transcript I have read says the same as the NYT.

Why don't you try listening? From your own daily mail Bottom recording. 1:55 or so.

Are you following him?
Yeah
We don't need you to do that.
OKAY

And then he negligently chased Trayvon Martin, while armed, and without legal authority.

What do you think happened when he caught up to Martin, and told Martin to stop and wait for the cops?

Martin told Zimmerman to go fuck himself, Zimmerman got very angry at Martin's disrespecting his non-existent authority, the only option Zimmerman's negligence left for him to detain Martin was to escalate by pulling his weapon. At that point, we leave negligence and enter "is is criminally negligent manslaughter, or is this all evidence of premeditation?"

Either way, the only person with a self-defense claim is the one who was being chased.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 4/6/2012 8:51:30 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to truckinslave)

RE: Zimmerman as racist meme crumbling? - 4/6/2012 8:51:31 AM

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Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

He needlessly aggravated and escalated a situation that left a teenager dead (whatever that teen was/wasn't doing).

We do not know that for a fact. What we do know is that the only witness says otherwise.

My opinion remains that if the forensics do not match his narrative, then there is a need for a trial.

Let me ask you something.
If there is no physical evidence to challenge his narrative, what is the pathway to a conviction?
If the gummint does not have proof that it is Trayvon crying for help?
If the ME report backs up Z's account...
What convinces anyone Z is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?
Emotion?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

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