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RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/10/2012 3:32:33 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So I'm asking you a simple question, why disenfranchise so many for sucha small problem when the much much larger problem of voter suppression is being ignored?

Try this another way, what should the penalty be for cast 1 fraudulent vote and should the exact same penalty apply to everyone involved in voter suppression schemes?

When you decide to answer these very reasonable questions, that will unfortunately destroy your position, I will happily deal with what ever questions you might have.


I'll type slowly so you don't miss it this time: I D O N ' T W A N T C I T I Z E N S T O B E D E N I E D T H E V O T E B U T I A L S O D O N ' T W A N T N O N - C I T I Z E N S V O T I N G.

Photo IDs are a completely reasonable way of accomplishing that goal.

Be careful about shortening quotes, by the way, Ron'll say that you're violating TOS and you'll leave out important parts of my answer, again ...
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I would love to answer this question for you but, you're bringing oranges to an apple pie bake-off.

It is true that I don't want to see people who are elligible to vote be denied that right and I would be just as vehement about a case of voter suppresion. But these issues are not mutually exclusive so, allow me to turn the tables on you and ask you, point-blank:

What is the best way to ensure that people who arrive at the polls are legally allowed to vote ("citizens" for this discussion) while not allowing people who do not meet those requirements ("Non-citizens" for this discussion) to violate our laws and muddy our process?

Photo IDs are not an unreasonable way to accomplish this and I have already stated that the IDs should be free of charge to those that really can't afford them. If they can't afford the $11.00 (What it costs in my state) to get the ID because their heroin habit takes priority for them, I feel no pity.

If they're on welfare and eating dog food because they can't afford anything else, the IDs should abso-fucking-lutely be free of charge.

ETA: Ya know what? Send the "Get-Out-The-Vote" people around with a digital camera and a portable backdrop to make the photo IDs right there. I'm all for it (as long as those "Get-Out-The-Vote" people swing from a tree, if they fuck with the process and commit voter fraud).



Peace and comfort,



Michael


< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 4/10/2012 3:33:18 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/10/2012 3:33:12 PM   
Owner59


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So people are getting shot all the time.....you know.....it`s in the news.......

So with your logic.......you won`t mind if I hold a loaded gun on you when we meet for that beer.

It`s possible you might shot me so I have to be doubley careful.....capiche?

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/10/2012 4:35:15 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So I'm asking you a simple question, why disenfranchise so many for sucha small problem when the much much larger problem of voter suppression is being ignored?

Try this another way, what should the penalty be for cast 1 fraudulent vote and should the exact same penalty apply to everyone involved in voter suppression schemes?

When you decide to answer these very reasonable questions, that will unfortunately destroy your position, I will happily deal with what ever questions you might have.


I'll type slowly so you don't miss it this time: I D O N ' T W A N T C I T I Z E N S T O B E D E N I E D T H E V O T E B U T I A L S O D O N ' T W A N T N O N - C I T I Z E N S V O T I N G.

And you're still evading the point. How many citizens being denied their rights is too many to stop the miniscule number of fraudulent votes being cast. 10,000 suppressed per fraudulent vate stopped? 100,000 to 1? what?

And do you or do you not support equivalent punsihment for vote suppressors as casters of fraudulent votes?

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/10/2012 4:51:11 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And you're still evading the point. How many citizens being denied their rights is too many to stop the miniscule number of fraudulent votes being cast. 10,000 suppressed per fraudulent vate stopped? 100,000 to 1? what?

And do you or do you not support equivalent punsihment for vote suppressors as casters of fraudulent votes?


I answered your question. That you don't like the answer comes as no surprise to me.

You are supposed to get back on topic, now and tell me what we should do about voter fraud as you promised to do. Should we ignore it? I'll bet we could find a few cases where a legitimate candidate has been denied their right to office because of it. So, tell me, as you promised you would; what do we do about voter fraud?

I'm assuming you didn't like my idea about volunteers issuing the ID cards as they register people? Again, I'm shocked.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/10/2012 6:23:40 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I think what may be happening is that one party encourages voter fraud, actually.


When I was in college Al Gore had to hire lawyers to keep our right to vote from being suppressed. Lawyers actually had to stand there and explain to the officials that they had to let those of us, that they didn't manage to intimidate out of it with threats of jail time, vote. There are actually problems that fix our elections to a certain extent, voter fraud is not one of them.


edited to de-purple.

< Message edited by GotSteel -- 4/10/2012 6:27:16 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/10/2012 6:29:35 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

How many citizens being denied their rights is too many to stop the miniscule number of fraudulent votes being cast. 10,000 suppressed per fraudulent vate stopped? 100,000 to 1? what?

And do you or do you not support equivalent punsihment for vote suppressors as casters of fraudulent votes?




Oh come on Ken, thats what deMOBcracy is all about!

51% denying 49% their rights.

God bless america! yeh!

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/10/2012 6:30:58 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I think what may be happening is that one party encourages voter fraud, actually.


When I was in college Al Gore had to hire lawyers to keep our right to vote from being suppressed. Lawyers actually had to stand there and explain to the officials that they had to let those of us, that they didn't manage to intimidate out of it with threats of jail time, vote. There are actually problems that fix our elections to a certain extent, voter fraud is not one of them.


edited to de-purple.



so you agree then that we have a lawless gubafia when it suits their purposes?

wait a second it looks like you have internal conflicts you need to resolve instead





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 4/10/2012 6:33:46 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/10/2012 6:37:34 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

I think what may be happening is that one party encourages voter fraud, actually.


Any evidence for this accusation, Michael?

quote:

I'm reminded of President Carter, fast-tracking citizenship procedings for the Cuban crime lift so that those people would "thank" him by voting for him in 1980.

While, technically, not fraud per se, it certainly had a pretty foul stench of electioneering.


Was this Carter's own initiative, or was he acting in accordance with the Cuban Adjustment Act of 1966?

quote:

I think the PPLs are afraid that their turnout will go down if we start paying attention to who should and shouldn't be voting.


What are PPLs?

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/10/2012 6:42:44 PM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

It is fucking stupid. a republican primary.  Can't the republicans come up with somebody who has enough brains to pour piss out of a boot? 


I'm not sure what you are saying. You appear to be angry again. And cursing again. I suppose you feel this makes your point stronger. I think it makes it weaker. It's that other guy that curses in every post your hero? Or alter ego?

But now, perhaps I will need to educate you on who does the primaries for the Democrats and Republicans both with the same voter verification rules. Anyone guess? Anyone at all.

Let me save you the trouble. It is the hosting state. For example, Wisconsin has a new voter id law to required positive id for any voter for that Primary. It would have except it was blocked by Democratically sponsered lawsuits to tie it up in the courts until after the election.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20120403/GPG010404/204030505/No-voter-ID-needed-today-polls-GOP-presidential-primaries-local-races

Anyone guess why? Anyone at all after seeing this video?

Obama does not believe in the saying "the buck stops here" so we are saying this November, "the crap stops here".


< Message edited by Arturas -- 4/10/2012 6:44:31 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/10/2012 6:48:50 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I think what may be happening is that one party encourages voter fraud, actually.


When I was in college Al Gore had to hire lawyers to keep our right to vote from being suppressed. Lawyers actually had to stand there and explain to the officials that they had to let those of us, that they didn't manage to intimidate out of it with threats of jail time, vote. There are actually problems that fix our elections to a certain extent, voter fraud is not one of them.


edited to de-purple.


Hmmm....this is a bit like that term "many" that MSNBC pundits like to use, as in "many say Obama's policies are working for the economy..."

Could you be more specific as to how Al Gore hiring lawyers kept your right to vote. In other words, specifically how was your right to vote being suppressed? Thanks.


< Message edited by Arturas -- 4/10/2012 6:50:18 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/10/2012 6:50:35 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I think what may be happening is that one party encourages voter fraud, actually.


Any evidence for this accusation, Michael?




I have given links that show that ACORN backed voter fraud-enabling laws (Motor Voter ACT) and that President Osama was a party to their lawsuit in defense of that act


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I'm reminded of President Carter, fast-tracking citizenship procedings for the Cuban crime lift so that those people would "thank" him by voting for him in 1980.

While, technically, not fraud per se, it certainly had a pretty foul stench of electioneering.


Was this Carter's own initiative, or was he acting in accordance with the Cuban Adjustment Act of 1966?


I can't honestly answer that as I don't rightly remember and I was 15 at the time. I was just starting to become politically active and wasn't that deep into every issue.

I can tell you that most of the news shows of the time were talking about how he was "playing fast and loose" with his presidential authority.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
quote:

I think the PPLs are afraid that their turnout will go down if we start paying attention to who should and shouldn't be voting.


What are PPLs?


That should be relatively easy to figure out but, I promise; I don't consider you to be one.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/10/2012 7:24:28 PM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline 		OK, how about this, I think it is a reasonable compromise:
Institute the death penalty for both voter intimidation and casting a vote if you are not entitled to vote. Note, I'm not saying execute folks like Ann Coulter who voted in the wrong district, I'm talking folks casting double ballots or voting someone else's ballot, or voting if not a citizen.
It is a pretty rare event, and having a really strong punishment should keep it that way.
Heck, lets go one further. Anyone who can prove that another person made an illegal vote (thus effecting the capital punishment) gets $10,000 paid for by the state involved. Should pay PI's if there is any real fraud to catch every one of those folks.
Then we forget all about voter suppression efforts-I mean voter ID laws-since we know that the penalty is so harsh. Heck, with the bounty, we even have a free market solution, so we won't have to make the government larger, more intrusive, and force everyone to have ID's with tracking microchips...

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/10/2012 8:27:51 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		I wonder what the voter ID have to say about the problem that has been arising with the Amish and other religious communities who have a religious objection to getting their picture taken. No picture, no photo ID. Many of these people vote Republican so the party that is backing these laws are by extension decreasing their own voter turn out. Law of unintended consequences? Or is it that the Amish shouldn't have a right to vote because their religion forbids the photo ID?


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RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/10/2012 10:28:01 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Honestly, I think that it comes down to the fact that voter fraud is probably a lot more prevailant than some people are willing to admit and I can't help but think that the people that won't admit that are probably convinced that the voter fraud provides them with some sort of advantage.


Honestly, I think that it comes down to the fact that alien anal probing is probably a lot more prevailant than some people are willing to admit and I can't help but think that the people that won't admit that are probably convinced that the alien anal probing provides them with some sort of advantage.


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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/10/2012 11:03:26 PM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Honestly, I think that it comes down to the fact that voter fraud is probably a lot more prevailant than some people are willing to admit and I can't help but think that the people that won't admit that are probably convinced that the voter fraud provides them with some sort of advantage.


Honestly, I think that it comes down to the fact that alien anal probing is probably a lot more prevailant than some people are willing to admit and I can't help but think that the people that won't admit that are probably convinced that the alien anal probing provides them with some sort of advantage.




Mork told me that the anal probing was needed to adapt their advanced medical science to our biology, leading to cures for aids, cancer, and republican self-deception. Nanu-Nanu...

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RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/11/2012 1:12:01 AM   
erieangel


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Status: offline 		Mork? You gotta bring Mork into this?? You are aging yourself SB.


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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/11/2012 1:18:36 AM   
LadyPact


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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/11/2012 6:01:30 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

It is fucking stupid. a republican primary.  Can't the republicans come up with somebody who has enough brains to pour piss out of a boot? 


I'm not sure what you are saying. You appear to be angry again. And cursing again. I suppose you feel this makes your point stronger. I think it makes it weaker. It's that other guy that curses in every post your hero? Or alter ego?

But now, perhaps I will need to educate you on who does the primaries for the Democrats and Republicans both with the same voter verification rules. Anyone guess? Anyone at all.

Let me save you the trouble. It is the hosting state. For example, Wisconsin has a new voter id law to required positive id for any voter for that Primary. It would have except it was blocked by Democratically sponsered lawsuits to tie it up in the courts until after the election.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20120403/GPG010404/204030505/No-voter-ID-needed-today-polls-GOP-presidential-primaries-local-races

Anyone guess why? Anyone at all after seeing this video?

Obama does not believe in the saying "the buck stops here" so we are saying this November, "the crap stops here".



LOL, I am not angry. Some guy named Eric Holder went to vote in a republican primary, I would say he is stupid for voting for that bunch of assclowns, but it is a free country. 

You don't need to educate me in anything, you haven't the capacity.  

Voter ID is a states rights issue, because all elections are state elections.

The only federal election laws deal with the conducting of campaigns and monies.

The actual elections are state.


We dont care about voter verification rules, anyone who doesnt know that they have to be the same for all parties state to state, and vary state to state would be an imbecile, or at the least untutored in big people issues.


Well, not sure how you are going to say the crap stops here in November when it pretty much lays on your parties shoulders.




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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/11/2012 1:18:22 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

And you're still evading the point. How many citizens being denied their rights is too many to stop the miniscule number of fraudulent votes being cast. 10,000 suppressed per fraudulent vate stopped? 100,000 to 1? what?

And do you or do you not support equivalent punsihment for vote suppressors as casters of fraudulent votes?


I answered your question. That you don't like the answer comes as no surprise to me.

You are supposed to get back on topic, now and tell me what we should do about voter fraud as you promised to do. Should we ignore it? I'll bet we could find a few cases where a legitimate candidate has been denied their right to office because of it. So, tell me, as you promised you would; what do we do about voter fraud?

I'm assuming you didn't like my idea about volunteers issuing the ID cards as they register people? Again, I'm shocked.


If you had answered my questions I would have stopped this tiresome routine.

Your claim seems to be that any number of suppresed votes is fine as long as you think the possibility of vote fraud has been eliminated. That position is so utterly ridiculous as to make it clear no thinking person could possibly hold it.

So answer the questions and then we'll be done, because your answer will inevitably destroy your position.

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: "The problem doesn't exist" - 4/11/2012 1:21:52 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
President Osama

I think we need a companion to Godwin's Law to account for this.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 100
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