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RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 11:18:58 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:


I do not mind a bit of snark if it is attached to some sort of rebuttle of something I have posted. You are normally rational and this is somewhat of a departure for you.
Would you like to try to respond to my questions or are we through here?

Did I hear something....must be the Marines having artillery partice again


So you agree that on your list there are only two illegal items and that we have nothing further to discuss.
Thank you for your input.

Never agreed to anything.....



I asked you to list what was on your list that was illegal.
So far you have posted two.
When I ask for more I got snark thus if you do not respond with more than two you agree that there are only those two.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 481
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 12:45:14 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:


I do not mind a bit of snark if it is attached to some sort of rebuttle of something I have posted. You are normally rational and this is somewhat of a departure for you.
Would you like to try to respond to my questions or are we through here?

Did I hear something....must be the Marines having artillery partice again


So you agree that on your list there are only two illegal items and that we have nothing further to discuss.
Thank you for your input.

Never agreed to anything.....



I asked you to list what was on your list that was illegal.
So far you have posted two.
When I ask for more I got snark thus if you do not respond with more than two you agree that there are only those two.

Just having grenades is illegal...don't have to have a previous conviction.  Nor does having a sawed off shotgun or convertion to automatic nor a silencers.  That is plenty enough.  Now go sit in the shade....

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 482
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 12:52:11 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

Since Z was chasing M, I would think that even if M was in some way being aggressive, it was arguably in self defense against Z. So there.

Since Z quit chasing M as soon as the former lost sight of the latter, I would think M would have gone directly home, gone inside, called 911 and waited for the police to show up. But M obviously didn't do that. So there.

(in reply to Baroana)
Profile   Post #: 483
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 1:01:48 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

Zimmerman, armed with a gun, chased Martin while on the phone with the police. I think he's toast on the Self-D issue.

Zimmerman, while on the phone with the police, lost sight of Martin and told police where he would meet them. Martin, having eluded Zimmerman, while on the phone with his ex-g/f saying how scared he was, could have/should have gone directly to his father's condo, gone inside, locked the door, called the police and waited for them to show up. Martin, instead of staying of Zimmerman's sight obviously went looking for then picked a fight with Zimmerman. I think Zimmerman's free and clear on the SYG issue.

(in reply to Baroana)
Profile   Post #: 484
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 1:17:34 PM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

Zimmerman, armed with a gun, chased Martin while on the phone with the police. I think he's toast on the Self-D issue.


You'd be both wrong and grossly misinformed. It happens when you pay attention to...one percent of the story and not the rest. When you catch up with the rest of us, you'll see he didn't chase Martin, but followed briefly, heading back this vehicle when directed. You'll also see that Martin attacked Zimmerman, not the other way around.

Let us know when you catch up.



More bullshit, its clear in the transcript with the dispatcher that he left his van to follow the kid. How you come to the conclusion that thats heading "back" to the van beggars belief.

More bullshit indeed, from you. It's clear as clear can be in the transcript with the police dispatcher that not long after Z left his SUV to follow M he lost sight of M when M ran around a corner and, moreover, the audio of that call makes it obvious that Z stopped breathing fast and heavy almost immediately after he told the dispatcher he had lost sight of M -- the latter an obvious indication that Z quit chasing M as soon as M went out of sight. How you ignore that is beyond belief.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 485
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 1:34:18 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:


I do not mind a bit of snark if it is attached to some sort of rebuttle of something I have posted. You are normally rational and this is somewhat of a departure for you.
Would you like to try to respond to my questions or are we through here?

Did I hear something....must be the Marines having artillery partice again


So you agree that on your list there are only two illegal items and that we have nothing further to discuss.
Thank you for your input.

Never agreed to anything.....



I asked you to list what was on your list that was illegal.
So far you have posted two.
When I ask for more I got snark thus if you do not respond with more than two you agree that there are only those two.

Just having grenades is illegal...don't have to have a previous conviction.  Nor does having a sawed off shotgun or convertion to automatic nor a silencers.  That is plenty enough.  Now go sit in the shade....


So far from the list you provided you have listed as illegal are four items.
grenades
silencer
sawed off shotgun
converted ak to full auto.
The carr ar 15 automatic weapons you claim I have shown to be semi auto. All you need to do to convince yourself is check the manufactures website.

Here is your list:
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:


quote:

Amongst the more than 200 weapons catalogued were:


19 SGW CAR-AR assault submachine guns (three fitted with silencers), nine other silencers

8 hand grenades and at least 31 other grenade parts and fragments, more than 20 pieces and fragments of rockets (apparently used to make rocket-propelled grenades) along with 1 sight for a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

3 Israeli-made IMI Galil assault rifles

10 Ruger Mini-14 assault rifles (one with a mounted scope)

A barrel for a M60 machine gun

1 30 mm rocket shell

9 FAL assault rifles (three mounted on bipods)

At least 54 AK-47 or AKS assault rifles (some converted to fully automatic submachine guns)

11 .12-gauge shotguns (one with a sawed-off barrel)

Dozens of pistols

Dozens of barrels for M-16s, AR-15s and other weapons

Gas masks and one chemical warfare suit

Several Kevlar tactical vests and other body armor and eight Kevlar helmets.
Also found were lathes, milling equipment and other tooling machinery, which essentially substantiated the suspicions of authorities, who believed that Koresh and the Davidians were engaged in the illegal conversion of assault rifles to automatic weapons and the manufacture of crude "grease guns." [/quote

So aside from the 4 items we have agreed on ,what on this list is illegal for an american citizen with no criminal history?

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 486
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 1:59:41 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:


I do not mind a bit of snark if it is attached to some sort of rebuttle of something I have posted. You are normally rational and this is somewhat of a departure for you.
Would you like to try to respond to my questions or are we through here?

Did I hear something....must be the Marines having artillery partice again


So you agree that on your list there are only two illegal items and that we have nothing further to discuss.
Thank you for your input.

Never agreed to anything.....



I asked you to list what was on your list that was illegal.
So far you have posted two.
When I ask for more I got snark thus if you do not respond with more than two you agree that there are only those two.

Just having grenades is illegal...don't have to have a previous conviction.  Nor does having a sawed off shotgun or convertion to automatic nor a silencers.  That is plenty enough.  Now go sit in the shade....


So far from the list you provided you have listed as illegal are four items.
grenades
silencer
sawed off shotgun
converted ak to full auto.
The carr ar 15 automatic weapons you claim I have shown to be semi auto. All you need to do to convince yourself is check the manufactures website.

Here is your list:
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:


quote:

Amongst the more than 200 weapons catalogued were:


19 SGW CAR-AR assault submachine guns (three fitted with silencers), nine other silencers

8 hand grenades and at least 31 other grenade parts and fragments, more than 20 pieces and fragments of rockets (apparently used to make rocket-propelled grenades) along with 1 sight for a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

3 Israeli-made IMI Galil assault rifles

10 Ruger Mini-14 assault rifles (one with a mounted scope)

A barrel for a M60 machine gun

1 30 mm rocket shell

9 FAL assault rifles (three mounted on bipods)

At least 54 AK-47 or AKS assault rifles (some converted to fully automatic submachine guns)

11 .12-gauge shotguns (one with a sawed-off barrel)

Dozens of pistols

Dozens of barrels for M-16s, AR-15s and other weapons

Gas masks and one chemical warfare suit

Several Kevlar tactical vests and other body armor and eight Kevlar helmets.
Also found were lathes, milling equipment and other tooling machinery, which essentially substantiated the suspicions of authorities, who believed that Koresh and the Davidians were engaged in the illegal conversion of assault rifles to automatic weapons and the manufacture of crude "grease guns." [/quote

So aside from the 4 items we have agreed on ,what on this list is illegal for an american citizen with no criminal history?


I got a better idea for you, call the ATF tell them you have everything on the list, you find out what is illegal...

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 487
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 2:41:02 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
What ever happened to the practice of trimming quotes?

K.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 488
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 2:42:13 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Everyone seems to be standing their ground on that, K.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 489
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 2:45:20 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Everyone seems to be standing their ground on that, K.

True. They don't seem to be against the idea in principle, at least.

K.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 490
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 4:20:16 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		fr]

Another poster noticed an anomly in this statement.

quote:

The thing you are calling a sub-machine gun w/silencer does not exist. The sgw carr ar is an ar 15 look alike and according to the factory are not full auto. It fires a projectal that exceeds 1500 fps(the speed of sound at sea level).


It shoud read "it fires a projectal that exceeds about 1100 fps at 35c"...(the speed of sound in air is a direct function of temp and not pressure.)
I stand corrected and disabused of my ignorance.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 491
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 4:34:24 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

More bullshit, its clear in the transcript with the dispatcher that he left his van to follow the kid. How you come to the conclusion that thats heading "back" to the van beggars belief.

More bullshit indeed, from you. It's clear as clear can be in the transcript with the police dispatcher that not long after Z left his SUV to follow M he lost sight of M when M ran around a corner and, moreover, the audio of that call makes it obvious that Z stopped breathing fast and heavy almost immediately after he told the dispatcher he had lost sight of M -- the latter an obvious indication that Z quit chasing M as soon as M went out of sight. How you ignore that is beyond belief.


Well the judge wont go on whats obvious to you. Whats fact is Zimmerman originally left his van, despite being told the police didnt need him to do that. The rest is just pontification from you and others.

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 492
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 4:42:58 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I got a better idea for you, call the ATF tell them you have everything on the list, you find out what is illegal...


I did just that very thing before I ask you to validate the post in which you grossly misrepresent the facts.
Now you know.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 493
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 4:49:01 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


Personal attack aside, I didn't say it was proven. Zimmerman says he was, and there's no evidence to prove him wrong, and the 911 call makes it seem possible that he was, so until there's reason to believe otherwise, I think the possibility is strong that he was headed back.

I was just disputing your assertion that him "leaving the van" makes the conclusion that he was "headed back" something that "beggars belief."


Ah yes, claiming my mentioning you had me blocked was a personal attack.... it wasnt, I was just pointing out your dishonesty on the issue.

Zimmermans claim to be heading back wasnt a conclusion, it was his unproven ( as you agree) claim. The point that he left the van to follow the kid is a fact.

DM even claims Martin attacked Zimmy... That must be it, the black kid with the sweets attacked the bigot with the gun...Problem solved huh.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 494
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 10:26:54 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Well the judge wont go on whats obvious to you. Whats fact is Zimmerman originally left his van, despite being told the police didnt need him to do that. The rest is just pontification from you and others.


So now you've changed your claim to suggest that the dispatcher told Zimmerman not to get out of his vehicle?

That's a new twist on your unbelievable BS. He was already out of the car. He indicated he was following Martin and was told they didn't need him to do that, the "that" being following Martin...not merely getting out of his vehicle.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 495
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 10:29:49 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
DM even claims Martin attacked Zimmy... That must be it, the black kid with the sweets attacked the bigot with the gun...Problem solved huh.


Actually Zimmerman claims that. And since he's the accused, the prosecution must prove his guilt -- ie. they must prove he was not attacked.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 496
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 10:32:32 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
That maybe true, Martin used his fist Zimmerman used his gun.  I read many years ago a Northeastern study 1995 on the subject of those defending themselves with a firearm, in some 48% of the cases, the so called attacker was unarmed.  I am not aware any recent study but it would be interesting. It is my understanding Zimmerman wanted to become a police officer,  if he ever does, he better get use to being punched, and the rules on the use of deadly force, i.e. shooting an armed anybody are alot more strictive.


Maybe you should look up what protocol is when some is bashing your head against the pavement and then goes for your gun.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 497
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 10:35:43 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
More bullshit, its clear in the transcript with the dispatcher that he left his van to follow the kid.


More illiteracy from you, hmm? Did you not see where I wrote the following?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror
you'll see he didn't chase Martin, but followed briefly, heading back this vehicle when directed. You'll also see that Martin attacked Zimmerman, not the other way around.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
How you come to the conclusion that thats heading "back" to the van beggars belief.


Actually it isn't. It's what he stated happened. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, you're just spouting more BS.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 498
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 10:37:51 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Bullshit about the ignore function. You may have read my post while you werent logged in, but you had to log in and unblock me to quote me.


So? If he saw it while not logged in, he can reply all he wants. Doesn't mean he didn't have you blocked, genius. It just means he replied anyway.

You really are living in a fantasy land aren't you?

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 499
RE: "Stand Your Ground" law under attack.... - 5/14/2012 10:38:05 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
DM even claims Martin attacked Zimmy... That must be it, the black kid with the sweets attacked the bigot with the gun...Problem solved huh.


Actually Zimmerman claims that. And since he's the accused, the prosecution must prove his guilt -- ie. they must prove he was not attacked.



Actually DM, repeats that claim......same thing.

And all the DA has to do is prove George a liar to get a conviction.......which won`t be hard.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 500
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