quote:

To get that mess straightened out, CA will have to do what Wisconsin is doing. I'm guessing it won't happen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
Actually California's finances are reflective of libertarian tax policy, especially prop 13, mixing with a state where it is politically impossible to cut government services to a level equal to that of 1925.

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prop 13? dont worry yer purdy head about that, the cities and counties make up for it since they charge to the max when it comes to new homes.. in Inland Empire you will pay about $50,000 in impact and 2-3 pages of other fees before you can get a building permit.. Riverside county you even get charge a fee/tax to save the rats.. i kid you not..

Could you tell us what kind of rat and why?
If you can't then perhaps you should put your brain in gear before engaging your mouth.

quote:

Hey,.. I am dead serious..You cant make this shite up!.. there is a rat that lives primarily in riverside county and there is a rat mitigation fee charge of about $150/new house included in the long list of fees to get a building permit there..

You seem to feel that cities and counties should not charge permit fees to developers?
Why?
Who do you think should pay for the curbs gutters and sidewalks in a housing development of 500 homes? The taxpayers of the town that the development is in? The buyers of the new homes?
Is it not rational that the ones making money off of the development pay the development cost?
If the development is in a watershed should the developer be responsible for the flood control through the development to keep the houses from washing away?
Which fees would you remove and who would you have pay for them?
I am quite aware that all people have the ability to engage in criminal behaviour, as in your bell ca. example. So also can developers.
If a public employee acts in a criminal manner then they should be arresed and replaced with more ethical stock.

quote:

I have seen the friggin list of fees, taxes, charges.. and its in there.. When i first saw the fee i thought it was to get rid of the rats,... but no, its there to help save/preserve them... It might be a really cute rat,.. but its still a frikin rat..

What is the Stevens' Kangaroo Rat fee?
The Stephens' Kangaroo Rat is listed as a threatened, endangered species by the State of California and the California Department of Fish and Game. The Stephens' Kangaroo Rat Preservation fee is imposed to develop, prepare and implement a Habitat Conservation Plan provides protection for the species and guarantees its survival. Since the City is situated within the historic range of the Stephens' Kangaroo Rat, such fee is required to comply with the state and federal legislation per Riverside Municipal Code 16.40.040.
http://www.riversideca.gov/pworks/ld-faq.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephens's_Kangaroo_Rat

So we are not talking about "frikin rats" we are talking about a particular type of "rat".
Is this the rat that we all imagine chewing the face off of the fellow in orwell's 1984?
No, it is part of the food chain and it is endangerd.
I remember when a canadian corp. "Daon" (sp) bought the taganaga ranch off of mckinly in riverside to build a mall. Daon was informed by the sellers of the "stevens kangaroo rat" issue and they laughed. The corp. ignored the issue and began moving dirt.
It took a couple of months before the authorities finally came to visit. When they did the whole site shut down.
Daon even went so far as to print up a slew of bumper stickers "steve you dirty rat" and passed them out freely.
Daon's arrogant attitude that they were above the law and after it was just a "frikin rat" cost them several millions of dollars more than the original $100k remediation plan.
I am pretty sure you understand how the food chain works. So the question is do we let people starve because the food chain broke just so some corp can make a few bux?

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 5/15/2012 11:58:59 AM >

(in reply to tj444)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

You have about as many post claiming to be a cop as denying it. Would you like me to post them up for you to deny?

Absolutely, prove me wrong... I said when I sold insurance, I was a member of a union, a private firm union... I was never a member of a public sector, or police union.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

You have about as many post claiming to be a cop as denying it. Would you like me to post them up for you to deny?

Absolutely, prove me wrong... I said when I sold insurance, I was a member of a union, a private firm union... I was never a member of a public sector, or police union.

So ar you now saying that you are a cop but not in a union?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
You seem to feel that cities and counties should not charge permit fees to developers?
Why?
Who do you think should pay for the curbs gutters and sidewalks in a housing development of 500 homes? The taxpayers of the town that the development is in? The buyers of the new homes?
Is it not rational that the ones making money off of the development pay the development cost?
If the development is in a watershed should the developer be responsible for the flood control through the development to keep the houses from washing away?
Which fees would you remove and who would you have pay for them?
I am quite aware that all people have the ability to engage in criminal behaviour, as in your bell ca. example. So also can developers.
If a public employee acts in a criminal manner then they should be arresed and replaced with more ethical stock.

So we are not talking about "frikin rats" we are talking about a particular type of "rat".
Is this the rat that we all imagine chewing the face off of the fellow in orwell's 1984?
No, it is part of the food chain and it is endangerd.
I remember when a canadian corp. "Daon" (sp) bought the taganaga ranch off of mckinly in riverside to build a mall. Daon was informed by the sellers of the "stevens kangaroo rat" issue and they laughed. The corp. ignored the issue and began moving dirt.
It took a couple of months before the authorities finally came to visit. When they did the whole site shut down.
Daon even went so far as to print up a slew of bumper stickers "steve you dirty rat" and passed them out freely.
Daon's arrogant attitude that they were above the law and after it was just a "frikin rat" cost them several millions of dollars more than the original $100k remediation plan.
I am pretty sure you understand how the food chain works. So the question is do we let people starve because the food chain broke just so some corp can make a few bux?

quote:

LOL You are so funny.. so this cute lil rat becoming extinct will cause people of Riverside County, CA to starve? Its food for coyotes, not humans ffs.. Your ability to exaggerate is amazing..

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In your previous post you didnt know what rat i was talking about, now all of a sudden you "remember Daon"? you just googled it, didnt you?.. lol..

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I dont believe for a second that the $150/new building permit (which imo is not a small amount) actually goes to the rats.. Its a fee that has been collected since 1988, how does this fee help the rats in any way, shape or form? Imo, the only "rats" it helps are the ones in govt for another layer of bureacracy and fat salaries.. JMO..

quote:

My point being there is a mirad of fees, charges, taxes that the cities and counties collect.. and it all adds up to mega bucks.. Why is the cost of the various fees to the tune of 50,000/building permit reasonable when in Florida the impact & other fees for a building permit is only 10% or less of that?

quote:

Its the overcharging for fees that is the problem, imo.. As I previously pointed out, of one case where the county wanted $250,000 but a court reduced that to a more reasonable $10k..

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
So ar you now saying that you are a cop but not in a union?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Perhaps you should call the dana point building dept. I did.
They told me that it was a sliding scale depending on how much you constructed with a modest 1-3 kw system being $250. to a max of $700 for 5 kw and up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

LOL You are so funny.. so this cute lil rat becoming extinct will cause people of Riverside County, CA to starve? Its food for coyotes, not humans ffs.. Your ability to exaggerate is amazing..

I did not say that you did. I asked if you understood what the food chain was...you clearly do not.

sure i do, the coyotes eat the rats,.. the farmers shoot the coyotes,.. the farmers sell the coyote skins to fur coat manufacturers.. there is yer food chain

quote:

In your previous post you didnt know what rat i was talking about, now all of a sudden you "remember Daon"? you just googled it, didnt you?.. lol..

I dd not say I did not know what the skr was. I ask you if you knew what it was.
No one who understands what the food chain would ever make such a foolish statement.

no, you simply asked what rat it was and why there would be a fee to save it or if i couldnt that my brain was not in gear

quote:

I dont believe for a second that the $150/new building permit (which imo is not a small amount) actually goes to the rats.. Its a fee that has been collected since 1988, how does this fee help the rats in any way, shape or form? Imo, the only "rats" it helps are the ones in govt for another layer of bureacracy and fat salaries.. JMO..

Had you read the stuff you cut and paste you would have noticed that the fee was to acquire new habitat. The purpose is to acquire the same amount of habitat as was compromised. In that sense where can you buy land the size of a city lot for $150?

they live in the desert,.. undeveloped desert land in inland empire is actually cheap but thats cuz its undeveloped and no hope in hell of developing it at a reasonable cost. In riverside county there is bogart park 400 acres, idlywynd park 200 acres, lake cahuilla 700acres, lake skinner 1400 acres, rancho jurupa 200 acres, plus various other parks and undeveloped areas.. how much land do this varmints need??? how much land did they actually buy and how much money did they collect? i would bet most of that have gone to rich salaries..

quote:

My point being there is a mirad of fees, charges, taxes that the cities and counties collect.. and it all adds up to mega bucks.. Why is the cost of the various fees to the tune of 50,000/building permit reasonable when in Florida the impact & other fees for a building permit is only 10% or less of that?

Perhaps you should ask them?

I dont need to ask them, the court case spells it out.. govt greed

quote:

Its the overcharging for fees that is the problem, imo.. As I previously pointed out, of one case where the county wanted $250,000 but a court reduced that to a more reasonable $10k..

With that sort of reduction what did the courts order the city to do as a result?

quote:

I did not say that you did. I asked if you understood what the food chain was...you clearly do not.

sure i do, the coyotes eat the rats,.. the farmers shoot the coyotes,.. the farmers sell the coyote skins to fur coat manufacturers.. there is yer food chain

quote:

Had you read the stuff you cut and paste you would have noticed that the fee was to acquire new habitat. The purpose is to acquire the same amount of habitat as was compromised. In that sense where can you buy land the size of a city lot for $150?

quote:

they live in the desert,.. undeveloped desert land in inland empire is actually cheap but thats cuz its undeveloped and no hope in hell of developing it at a reasonable cost.

quote:

In riverside county there is bogart park 400 acres, idlywynd park 200 acres, lake cahuilla 700acres, lake skinner 1400 acres, rancho jurupa 200 acres, plus various other parks and undeveloped areas.. how much land do this varmints need??? how much land did they actually buy and how much money did they collect? i would bet most of that have gone to rich salaries..

quote:

Perhaps you should call the dana point building dept. I did.
They told me that it was a sliding scale depending on how much you constructed with a modest 1-3 kw system being $250. to a max of $700 for 5 kw and up.

quote:

So now they have reduced the flat fee from $14,000 down to a sliding scale up to $700.. I guess they should get a medal, huh? just shows how greedy they were in the first place, they werent the only city either.. At that time I did look it up on their website because it was so high i couldnt believe it. I got that figure on dana point fees from an article (either in the LA Times or OC Register) before Arnie required green building & solar prewiring added to the building codes in CA in 2011 & in that article dana point was the highest, thats why i remember it & looked it up myself.. There have been various studies into what various cities have been overcharging for solar permits which is why that article was written (I cant find it online anymore tho)..

So far you have posted no proof that it was ever $14,000. Until you do how can you claim that they have lowered it?

quote:

and since that article the sierra club asked the cities that charge more than $5,000 to reduce their fees and I expect Arnie and the state asked the cities to as well, it looks like most but not all have dropped them down, some down to $0. I see Yorba Linda just dropped theirs this April (give them a medal too!), so people were grossly overcharged before that.. When nearly all drop their fees like that, it shows that all the cities in CA are greedy, greedy, greedy, which was my point..

If they were high and then lowered those who were overcharged would have recourse for a rebate.
But:
So far we have seen no proof that they were.

(in reply to tj444)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

I did not say that you did. I asked if you understood what the food chain was...you clearly do not.

sure i do, the coyotes eat the rats,.. the farmers shoot the coyotes,.. the farmers sell the coyote skins to fur coat manufacturers.. there is yer food chain

If you had a clue what the food chain is you would recognize the falacy in your statement.
No more skr... what do the coyotes eat?
What does the farmer sell to the furrier when the coyotes are gone?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Perhaps you should call the dana point building dept. I did.
They told me that it was a sliding scale depending on how much you constructed with a modest 1-3 kw system being $250. to a max of $700 for 5 kw and up.

Guess the township wants to recoup some of the loss in collectable tax. Next will be putting meters on the solar system and charging tax only for use of the sun.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

and since that article the sierra club asked the cities that charge more than $5,000 to reduce their fees and I expect Arnie and the state asked the cities to as well, it looks like most but not all have dropped them down, some down to $0. I see Yorba Linda just dropped theirs this April (give them a medal too!), so people were grossly overcharged before that.. When nearly all drop their fees like that, it shows that all the cities in CA are greedy, greedy, greedy, which was my point..

If they were high and then lowered those who were overcharged would have recourse for a rebate.
But:
So far we have seen no proof that they were.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

and since that article the sierra club asked the cities that charge more than $5,000 to reduce their fees and I expect Arnie and the state asked the cities to as well, it looks like most but not all have dropped them down, some down to $0. I see Yorba Linda just dropped theirs this April (give them a medal too!), so people were grossly overcharged before that.. When nearly all drop their fees like that, it shows that all the cities in CA are greedy, greedy, greedy, which was my point..

If they were high and then lowered those who were overcharged would have recourse for a rebate.
But:
So far we have seen no proof that they were.

If you really wanted to know you could have googled.. ya know, if your question was genuine.. but here are some reductions (Dana Point was already reduced previously so its reflected in this chart already). You can see for yourself how high some of the cities previous fees were..

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Since it was your claim why is it my job to verify it?
What is the source of your list?
Your list does not indicate that dana point was ever $14,000
If you had access to this list why did you post that dana point was $14,000? Or did it occure to you to find out the truth after you had been shown you were mistaken?
I would be interested in finding out how long the fee was in place and who paid such a fee and how many did.
I would also be interested in finding out if any of those who voted for the $14,000 fee are still in office?
My personal feeling is that the permit for solar should be free to encourage rather than discourage a more sustainable eneergy production.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Since it was your claim why is it my job to verify it?
What is the source of your list?
If you had access to this list why did you post that dana point was $14,000? Or did it occure to you to find out the truth after you had been shown you were mistaken?
I would be interested in finding out how long the fee was in place and who paid such a fee and how many did.
I would also be interested in finding out if any of those who voted for the $14,000 fee are still in office?
My personal feeling is that the permit for solar should be free to encourage rather than discourage a more sustainable eneergy production.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

California has 12% of the US population, and a third of the nation's welfare caseload. Our state university system has more full-time administrators than it has full-time teachers. Special interests dominate Sacramento. Brown's idea of a "budget cut" is to move the billing from the state, to the local jurisdictions, by way of unfunded mandates.

"It's the bureaucracy, stupid," to paraphrase Carville.