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24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/1/2012 5:30:26 PM   
halberd388


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Joined: 5/31/2012
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I've performed some research, perhaps not extensive but most than a a few weeks worth, to try and understand why I felt the way I did about women. I've seen a relationship therapist, a sex therapist and even talked to my own mother about how I felt toward women (which was disturbing, but when you start running out of options...)

So to sum it up now that the disclaimer is out of the way to rule out some possibly needless (though not unwanted) posts:

I love women, LOVE them, in ways that could be considered creepy to most of society. I don't look at them as sexual objects, but as gorgeous wonderful people who are sometimes out of control and need guidance. I see a beautiful woman walking down the street wearing skimpy cloths and most of her naughty parts on display I don't think "Damn, that girl is hot" I think "That girl needs someone to show her how to respect herself and others" and I begin to imagine roping her to a bed, using her sexually like she seemed to be asking for and breaking her will until she's free of the feeling and need to be on display in front of the world and just in front of me.

When I am in a relationship, without THINKING or knowing what I'm doing I tend to control my girlfriends (and ex-fiances) to the point of creeping them out. I tell them how I feel about them and instead of being pleased they are normally creeped out that I think of them as 'mine' and 'belonging to me'... but the word love is just too small, I feel I should protect them and guide them... that's more than what someone who loves you does in my opinion.

So my question is... am I really a dom as I was told by the sex therapist years ago or am I just socially awkward and need to learn better self control over how I think? Seeing the women on this site makes me... happy and upset... and the more I read about lifestyles (mostly Gorean and 24/7) the more it feel like that's what I might be with time to understand it better.

Any insight is appreciated.
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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/1/2012 5:45:10 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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I'm not sure why you think the only alternative to dominant is Gorean. Research Master/slave and Owner/Property. And yeah there's lots of us here who identify as this.

However for a different pov, perhaps the beautiful woman walking proudly down the street does respect herself, and owns her own sexuality, choosing when and where to display it.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to halberd388)
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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/1/2012 5:46:56 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
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It's extremely common doms here. It's called the white knight syndrome". They want to rescue all girls because, they think that are completely helpless and who better to fix them than ne.

I woud suggest therapy or learn self control and take some classes on women's studies. You come off as a man who has watched Snow White way too many times and thinks that's how it is supposed to be.

On ther other hand, there are just as many subs around who want someone that will take care of them, buy them things, give them bubble baths and. They're usually princesses.

Maybe you should start narrowing down your profile to just princesses.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/1/2012 5:54:36 PM   
halberd388


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Well I use Gorean as an extreme, I'm not entirely set on that lifestyle as it seems to be very LARPish.

Again, most of what I say is the extreme side of how I feel. At times I see a woman dressed nicely and I do not have any thoughts of the sort, she's just a pretty woman, say hello and continue on with my day. Though at times I do become... agitated and feel a need to say/do something but I don't because it's not socially acceptable to do so.

In a relationship, I'm loving and considerate. I open the door for my lady when I feel like it, give her a massage if she's tense or upset, talk and just be civil. I don't like to relinquish control, though, if she's not comfortable with me looking at her as "mine" and isn't ok with me telling her how to behave, dress, sleep, eat, talk or how to have sex it bothers me. We talk it out, normally the relationship ends because I won't give that kind of control. I do want to know how she feels and what she thinks, a woman's mind is beautiful too and her words are important.

Women are beautiful and wonderful, I just don't understand why I can't give up control like so many women think I should.

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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/2/2012 12:27:21 AM   
FrankAr


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Greetings,

I would not go into any lifestyle with so much mental baggage. I mean with all that is going through your mind how are you to be mentally strong with a female. You say that you are reading about and looking at the Gorean life, well to be honest any life...a Doms, A Masters, a Vanilla, a Gorean,....you have to get rid of the baggage and clean the mind to move forward.

It is just like letting someone have space after breaking up with someone and wanting to have a rebound relationship, the person would have too much baggage to give you 150% towards the relationship.

You say that you like to manage the female's daily routine, well that is just TPE. Some females tend to like that so they are then freed up to concentrate upon other matters. They do not worry about cooking what type of food, finding something to wear for work, someone to control their diet in a positive manner.

Maybe just step back and view the whole picture.

Frank Ar.


_____________________________

I am just me, simple ol me.

Even the softest whisper can be heard in the loudest group....Frank H.

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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/2/2012 12:28:00 AM   
Aileen1968


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From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
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You sound like a serial stalker/kidnapper/rapist in the making.
Creepy doesn't even scratch the surface...

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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/2/2012 12:33:59 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
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From: Northern New Jersey
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What you write here is a bit different from what you write in your profile.  A line from your profile:

"...you will submit to me, and if you don't I will beat you until you do."

Ok, yea, you need to learn a great deal more about the lifestyle and no, that isn't how it works.

To be honest with you, your profile, and your watered down version here reads like someone who, if they don't get some good psychotherapy, will become a serial rapist.  Right now, you have "control" over your thoughts because you know it isn't appropriate in society, but eventually it seems you might lose that control.

So my suggestion is not a relationship therapist, or a sex therapist, but a straight up therapist, more appropriately a licensed psychologist, even a kink friendly one that can help you understand the difference between abusive control and domination.

ETA:  Aileen beat me to the conclusion, but what I expanded on is still something you could think about.

< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 6/2/2012 12:35:40 AM >

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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/2/2012 12:34:24 AM   
Kirata


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Well if you want an honest answer, and I'm not sure you do, it sounds to me like you fear women more than "love" them. Unfortunately, Gor is infamous for attracting men who want to use it as an excuse for their psychopathology. Do us a favor.

K.

(in reply to halberd388)
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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/2/2012 6:26:24 AM   
DarkSteven


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Joined: 5/2/2008
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OP, have you been tested for autism or Asperger's? I'm not an expert, but you seem to have numerous issues.

1. You see women as being objects. You differentiate them by their clothes only, not their personalities or life experiences.
2. A good Dom learns his subs thoroughly and anticipates in advance how they will react to things - you don't seem to consider their reactions.
3. You are focusing on the control you have, not on the effects of such control. Let me give you an example - a local Master discussed with me his plans for his slave, who happened to be a good friend of mine. He told me how he planned to get her to have some marketable skills, and how to budget and save money. He assessed her situation and focused on which areas he intended to develop her, and then discussed it with me to get my take.

Bluntly, I feel like you may not be ready for relationships now. You need to learn empathy, boundaries, and self-control.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/2/2012 7:44:51 AM   
Musicmystery


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Kirata and Steven already said it.

I'll add that you don't need a relationship right now--you need to spend serious time learning about yourself.

And before you say it--no, you don't know yourself at all. You're all over the place.

And that's assuming, as Kirata mentioned, it's a serious inquiry at all.

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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/2/2012 7:50:42 AM   
xBullx


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Joined: 10/8/2005
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When did they move the humor section?

No "Gorean" isn't what you seek. The first thing that demonstrates that is the fact that you're making it all about women and your relationship to them, while sounding rather confused about your own individual reality. Our human nature is what draws man and woman together (generally); not Norman's romanticisms.

Oh and beating a woman into submission hardly makes her yours or you a dominant. While Norman’s books discuss disciplining a woman with the means of a whip, by cuffing her or with other similarly harsh measures, the beating aspect is seldom effective for ultimately achieving the desired effects the Gorean man is after with his woman/women. The whip is a tool, not the objective. And in the end it is the least of the tools available to you when you discover what most women seek in men.

Ironically a man’s most effective tool for managing his female is the restriction of his attentions; and that certainly does her no physical harm. But that is a story for another day when your objectives aren’t nearly as superficial.

If you seek to discover your own identity, which seems to be the case, speak less and study more (and study a good deal more than just Norman's take on things, the Leather Community and other lifestyle pursuits are too filled with brilliant minds). At this point you come off foolish and desperate; neither of which is going to define you as a secure destination for any woman.

In closing, considering that the Gorean Ideology has little more clarity than you do at this point I suggest you find a more defined and congenial lifestyle to keep yourself out of prison. I hear that Tibetan Monks are very knowledgeable in the ways of the universe.


_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to halberd388)
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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/2/2012 7:52:54 AM   
xBullx


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Joined: 10/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Kirata and Steven already said it.

I'll add that you don't need a relationship right now--you need to spend serious time learning about yourself.

And before you say it--no, you don't know yourself at all. You're all over the place.

And that's assuming, as Kirata mentioned, it's a serious inquiry at all.


It does seem like a miserable attempt at a self promotion advertisment.

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/2/2012 9:06:13 AM   
ProlificNeeds


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FR~

MAKING someone submit is beyond creepy, it's criminal, especially if it involves kidnapping assault or blackmail.

However, seeking a nice lady who wants to submit to you, is what we do by general theme.

The distinction is what makes one act okay, and the other punishable by law. Your thoughts seem to be a little over that line. I would not qualify you as a safe, sane or consentual partner at all.

(in reply to xBullx)
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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/2/2012 10:47:41 AM   
halberd388


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Joined: 5/31/2012
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I really appreciate everyone, but I'll explain a bit further as everyone seems to think I feel this way at all times.

This is something I think about from time to time (a woman submitting to me), as in rare occasion... as in very very rare. I came here at the advice from someone I'm associated with to seek out someone to talk to who's familiar with these types of thoughts. Was explained to me that everyone who thinks this way does so for a reason, good or bad, and that just bottling it up would be catastrophic to myself and others. I was told to write in my profile the most wicked and horrible thing I could think of even if I knew I would never actually do it (which I see is wrong, and yes I felt fucking creepy when I wrote it, I actually feel weird just being here.)

I don't really want to hurt someone, even when I would play in bed with a woman the idea of her asking me to choke her made me cringe. After a few months it went from choking, to slapping, to multiple partners to very odd torture that even now I feel uncomfortable saying. After I broke up with her, I've never really felt the same, I see things differently. I've been told ever since that even having the thoughts are wrong, I realize this, I'm ashamed of it and when I realize I think like it I tell myself it's wrong and that it's not alright.

I feel broken and alone, really just trying to find someone to help me understand and perhaps understand me. The badgering that "I'm fucked up" and "That I'm a stalker" doesn't really help. I'm just really looking for friends to talk to about my weird side that I never knew I had.

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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/2/2012 10:50:45 AM   
halberd388


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I've changed my profile because I really just need to talk to people, I hope I can find that here.

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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/2/2012 11:45:36 AM   
LaTigresse


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Joined: 1/15/2006
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Dude.........being gorean isn't even within your grasp right now.

In as much as I understand the philosophies, it's less a 'I wanna be' but instead more of a 'oh, so that is a description of what I am'.

Based upon your words here, what you 'am' is several shades of fucked up. I don't know if you even can find the help you seem to be searching for, here. Regardless of the severity or lack thereof......depending upon which you we are supposed to believe, the intro, or the re-do........you need professional help. Not a bunch of arm chair psychiatrists that haven't got a clue who you really are.

There is only ONE THING I know for a fact.......there is NO WAY you should be pursuing a power exchange relationship right now.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/2/2012 2:10:50 PM   
Kana


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Status: offline
OK dude.
I'm not gonna hammer you. In fact, I'm gonna say that in many ways you sound about where I was as a teenager.
This ain't a knock on ya, please don't take it that way. It's more a comment directed at the emotional mental space you sound like you are in.
Lemme lay some facts out for ya, things from my experience/perspective

1-Start with this-I love women, as in adore em, love em, think they are far and away the best thing God ever made. I open doors for em, treat em with class and dignity (Well, sometimes, in the appropriate times and places). I can be kind, considerate,a great listener, a loyal friend, a shoulder to cry on, that person who is always there, the safest man she'll ever meet.

2-That said, sure I've objectified em (And so has every man that's ever lived. Don't even lie and say otherwise. We've all undressed chicks with our eyes to the porn reel in our head. Don't even come at me and deny...unless you're gay, in which case you've done it to men). I've never thought so much that a woman was a wayward soul that needed correcting, but I've had, ahem, carnivorous, thoughts. This happened lots more before I got majorly involved in BDSM but it still happens...daily, at that. Cripes, I can't even begin to tell you the indescribable things that come to mind when I watch the first Tomb Raider :-)

3-Yeah, I tend to be controlling, both in BDSM and in the nilla relationships I've attempted. I can't help it. It's who and what I am. I like to take charge...not so much because I need/want to be a bigshot or anything, but usually because I'm an impatient guy, hate to see shit done improperly, and since no one else competent is stepping up to the plate I fill the vacuum...and people seem to be OK with it-hell, they volunteer me.

4-Within context, thinking of her as mine or owned isn't wrong. Heck, I know lots of chicks who love the idea of being property, being taken makes em wet. Of course, you also sound like you suffer a bit from Hasselhoff syndrome-you know, always ready to go grab a buoy and charge into the water ready to rescue the damsel in distress. I got news for ya-women don't need rescuing. They do fine on their own. (Matter of fact, its kinda condescending and rubs lotsa folks, slaves included, the wrong way. For some strange reason they feel it's somewhat demeaning...shrugs...can't imagine why?)

5-Why would you need to give up control to be in a relationship? Lotsa folks do it every day...and have zip to do with BDSM. Call it 50's household, traditional marriages, middle eastern cultures (Just kidding, just kidding!), whatever.

6-You just think about tying chicks up every once in a while....as in "very very rare occasions." Cripes. I used to think about it fifty times a day...and that was a slow day...and tying things up, well, that was just the amuse-bouche. Hell, point of fact, I still do, except now those little fantasies involve things like pears and skewers and needle teethed clamps.

7-So you had a BDSM experience and it stirred shit up, woke up feelings and things ain't been the same. Congrats. It happens often. BDSM arouses violent and strong feelings (At least in me), feelings and parts of me that were scary, dark, dangerous and way way the fuck out there. And it was tempting, oh so fucking tempting, like dancing on the edge of a dream long held. ..and I wanted to go back, ASAP.Slaves call it subfrenzy-people do weird shit to get back to that feeling.

8-Because of this I felt all fucked up inside and about myself. I mean, society has told me all my life that this shit is wrong, that people who like this, that feel the way I do-that they are all FUBAR, future serial killers and rapists, bad bad men. For christ's sakes, I have sisters. How would they react if they knew what appeals to me sexually? And thus I had secrets, dark nasty secrets that made me feel dirty, less than, ashamed.

9-All of which lead to being torn, and a man at war with hisownbadself can never be whole or complete...much less be capable of being in a relationship.

10-Meaning I could never hold a real relationship together because I couldn't bring all of me into it. I lied about what I liked, lied that I was happy within the relationship, lied that she fulfilled me. And knowing that I lied, knowing that I was only using her, that made me hate me just a little more each day until reached a point where I realized I could no longer do vanilla and live with myself as a man and as a person. And we won't even mention how grossly unfair it was to the women I was involved with.

11-So dude, you ain't alone. You ain't even totally FUBAR. Yeah, you're a bit creepy and definitely a bit twisted sexually, but so the fuck what. Ain't we all?

Here's what I did.
-Got right with me. That's one of those things that's real easy to write but a bitch to do. Took about a decade.
-Made some decisions about what I needed/had to have in a relationship and refused to compromise. Committed to power based relationships/interactions. If she wasn't willing to give up the control I needed, I didn't go into the relationship. And I was always straight up...in advance.
-Met someone special...and we went on a journey together, into us. Because in the end, its a thing that happens between two people who share all of each other...and in doing so, both are freed.

edited for spacing to make things more readable


< Message edited by Kana -- 6/2/2012 2:18:08 PM >


_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/2/2012 2:17:36 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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Your story changed.

You haven't caught on to the main point. This is not a matter of learning to live with the thoughts. This is a matter of understanding that you are not seeing others as whole human beings. If you can marry your desire for control with a concern for others and what's best for them, you will indeed be a Dom. But your drive for control is NOT coupled with concern for others, and even an acknowledgement that they exist apart from your own thoughts of them.

To repeat myself, get checked for autism/Asperger's.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/2/2012 2:33:58 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
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From: Canada
Status: offline
Save yourself a lot of headache and skip the "gorean" thing. Honestly, the real life goreans I know aren't thinking even remotely in the same camp as you. Actually, the real life 24/7 folks that I know, including myself, are also not thinking anything like you. I'm not sure I have much "insight" into what I'm reading but honestly it sounds like hot fantasy material more than any sort of real life thing. You're basically talking about top/bottom behavior... tying her down, having your way with her, she realizes her inner sexual self and becomes mush in your hands. It's a very popular (and fun) fantasy but it's not the stuff of real life. Real life is composed of bills to be paid and chores to be done and... well... the stuff of life.

Insofar as whether you are "really a dom", that is always in the eyes of the beholder. If some woman thinks that whatever you do blows her skirts up, then you're a dom.

quote:

I don't like to relinquish control, though, if she's not comfortable with me looking at her as "mine" and isn't ok with me telling her how to behave, dress, sleep, eat, talk or how to have sex it bothers me.

I think you might be confused here. You cannot "relinquish" control that you do not already have. It more sounds to me like you are trying to master some woman and it's not working and that's not working for you. If that's correct, then the question becomes "why isn't it working?" Are you picking the wrong women or are you skills unequal to the task? I can't really know that.

Out of curiosity, how is it that you are seeking to establish your control? Is this with vanilla women or self-identified submissives/bottoms?

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to halberd388)
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RE: 24/7 - Gorean, Is it really what I'm looking for? - 6/2/2012 6:10:40 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
Go to a munch. Meet other people who do this. Learn that lots of us enjoy control, either getting or giving, and we're still nice normal people without a scarlet letter to identify us.

It's normal to feel conflicted about your desires. Your whole life you've been taught not to hit girls, but you really want to do this. Go meet women who are interested in exploring this also. Talk honestly before you get in the sack. If you aren't able to talk about it, then you shouldn't be doing it.

If you need help coming to grips with what you want and what you think you should want, talk to a therapist. Just ask them in a telephone interview if they are familiar with alternate sexuality and power relationships.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 20
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