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RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/21/2012 10:43:57 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

So suddenly Dee Dee's memory of what happened which was previously sacred truth is dubious when it hurts your conclusion. If this is to be trown out so is everything else she said.

Neither "I can't run" or "I'm not going to run" harms my conclusion in any way. Neither one, said while in hiding from a possible assailant, indicates an intent to attack that assailant, especially when considering that Martin had already run away and hid to AVOID that assailant. Your supposition that he, for some unknown reason after running and hiding to avoid confrontation, then decides to attack that person is ludicrous.

Except of course by saying that on that one phrase Dee Dee must have misunderstood you must then throw out everything she said. Of course both of those fit your position but for you to use what was in the coversation at all you have to take it all, even the part thatblows your position out of the water. You can't logically say this is gospel except for the part where I need for him to say something different which is what you are doing.

So, uh, what happened to that college level reading ability you were bragging about in a different thread? The word I used was "paraphrased", which you changed in order to try to make an arguement to "misunderstood". If you'd like, I can give you a link to a good online dictionary so you can look up the difference for yourself.

The fact of the matter is that "my position" is backed up by statements from both DeeDee AND Zimmerman. But for some reason you aren't willing to disqualify EVERYTHING Zimmerman says when he is a know liar...only DeeDee because you claim she (YOUR word) "misunderstood".

Ok she parphrased you still have to discount every thing she said because who knows what else she paraphased into something that won't fit someones dream scenerio you still just have what she said to work with not what you want her to have said. Now that you mention it hiding is a good way to catch someone to teach them a lesson when you have decided not to run.

College level reading, I have a problem with your kindergarden logic. She didn't say what I wanted her so say so she must have paraphrased sort of garbage. Translation I believe she said whatever she would have had to say to make me right.

(in reply to igor2003)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/21/2012 10:51:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

not contemporaneous with the encounter

That's where you're incorrect. It's the predicate act TO the encounter. It's the REASON Trayvon Martin feared for his life.

Just to use a different example. A young woman finds herself being followed at night by a stranger first in their car, then on foot. Is her fear for her safety reasonable given the circumstances?

In Florida her fear becomes relevent only if she takes out a gun and fires it. Otherwise, don't mean squat in Court.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/21/2012 12:36:27 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

not contemporaneous with the encounter

That's where you're incorrect. It's the predicate act TO the encounter. It's the REASON Trayvon Martin feared for his life.

Just to use a different example. A young woman finds herself being followed at night by a stranger first in their car, then on foot. Is her fear for her safety reasonable given the circumstances?

In Florida her fear becomes relevent only if she takes out a gun and fires it. Otherwise, don't mean squat in Court.

Lets take this a step further there is a serial rapist in her neighborhood. She doesn't know the guy just moved in 2 doors down from her. She in reasonable fear of her life pulls her gun on him. He seeing her pull the gun pulls his. Who gets to claim self defense. There are those who would have us believe that since her fear is reasonable it nullifies his right to self defense I argue that when it goes to court they both have a ligitemate claim to self. defense.

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/21/2012 1:06:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

not contemporaneous with the encounter

That's where you're incorrect. It's the predicate act TO the encounter.

Johnson v. State

"Specifically, section 776.041 "subsection (2) precludes the initial aggressor from asserting self-defense where he or she is the individual who provoked the use of force" contemporaneously to the actions of the victim to which the defendant claims self-defense."

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 7/21/2012 1:07:32 PM >

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/21/2012 6:47:55 PM

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From: Albany, NY
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So, you're saying that Zimmerman making the threatening motion as if towards a weapon to be the cause of Trayvon Martin's fear for his life, and not the prior stalking-like behaviour of Zimmerman?

Ok, I'll buy that.

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(in reply to Raiikun)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/21/2012 6:51:40 PM

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I've decided to answer (and correct, if appropriate) every poster that comes up on my screen in the next 25 minutes (I have to get up early tomorrow so...if you weren't answered.......can't help that...the pizza man was on his way...)

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/21/2012 6:52:48 PM

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I actually don't have an opinion on this one. I'm going to move on to something vastly more vitriolic.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/21/2012 6:58:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

So, you're saying that Zimmerman making the threatening motion as if towards a weapon to be the cause of Trayvon Martin's fear for his life, and not the prior stalking-like behaviour of Zimmerman?

Ok, I'll buy that.

Trayvon's not the one on trial, so what's relevant to George's claim of self defense is the cause of his fear for his life. Searching a pocket for a phone to call 911 in fear of an impending assault doesn't legally make George the aggressor anyways.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 7/21/2012 6:59:14 PM >

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/21/2012 7:29:53 PM

BamaD

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Very good reason not to answer

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/21/2012 9:15:59 PM

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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

You're really saying that IMMEDIATELY PRIOR to Trayvon Martin's death, George Zimmerman following him while in his car and while on foot isn't legally relevant?

Good luck with that.

It's the law. Following prior to losing sight of Trayvon was a) not illegal, and b) not contemporaneous with the encounter, therefore it has no relevance to whether George was the aggressor or not.

The State has admitted it has no evidence that George confronted Martin, therefore it's going to be very hard to prove George the aggressor.

Well I'm willing to give the state it's chance to do just that.
How about you,cause it sure sounds like you think you know all there is to know about this case.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

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(in reply to Raiikun)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/22/2012 12:41:31 AM

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Oh I'm still waiting to see if the State actually has anything to prove George guilty. Every time more evidence is released though it just seems to prove George's innocence that much more.

Now we have witnesses that said the fight started where George said it did, a witness that saw Trayvon on top of George moments before the shot, forensics consistent with George firing while Trayvon was on top of him, the FBI sending a dozen agents to search and being unable to find any evidence of racism whatsoever, more than one instance of George coming to the aid of african-americans...

... and the only thing the State has shown us so far is that George was suspicious of someone acting suspicious, a witness who wasn't there and supplies nothing but hearsay with enough inaccuracies to make a lot of her testimony inadmissible, and some inconsistencies in George trying to describe the most traumatic night of his life but yet still has his story unrefuted by the evidence.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/22/2012 12:47:56 AM

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From: Orange County, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Oh I'm still waiting to see if the State actually has anything to prove George guilty. Every time more evidence is released though it just seems to prove George's innocence that much more.

Now we have witnesses that said the fight started where George said it did, a witness that saw Trayvon on top of George moments before the shot, forensics consistent with George firing while Trayvon was on top of him, the FBI sending a dozen agents to search and being unable to find any evidence of racism whatsoever, more than one instance of George coming to the aid of african-americans...

... and the only thing the State has shown us so far is that George was suspicious of someone acting suspicious, a witness who wasn't there and supplies nothing but hearsay with enough inaccuracies to make a lot of her testimony inadmissible, and some inconsistencies in George trying to describe the most traumatic night of his life but yet still has his story unrefuted by the evidence.

Yes it was all Gods plan as Zimmerman put it.

(in reply to Raiikun)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/22/2012 12:59:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Yes it was all Gods plan as Zimmerman put it.

As did Trayvon's mom.

quote:

"But now I know that God has called Trayvon. He was chosen."

"God is in control."

- Sybrina Fulton

(Lots of people share the belief that everything that happens, good and bad, is all part of God's plan.)

(in reply to Nosathro)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/22/2012 1:17:48 AM

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From: Orange County, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Yes it was all Gods plan as Zimmerman put it.

As did Trayvon's mom.

quote:

"But now I know that God has called Trayvon. He was chosen."

"God is in control."

- Sybrina Fulton

(Lots of people share the belief that everything that happens, good and bad, is all part of God's plan.)

You have this thing about taking what is said out of context to use to justify your beliefs. I do not and I think many do not even try to compare, what Ms. Fulton said and Zimmerman "It is part of Gods plan that I kill Trayvon Martin" This is really low and I mean an all time low for you. You really have secured your place in Hell. All you proven is that you and Zimmerman are both "a couple of real sick puppies" and I am Pagan.

< Message edited by Nosathro -- 7/22/2012 1:23:28 AM >

(in reply to Raiikun)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/22/2012 1:31:27 AM

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Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Yes it was all Gods plan as Zimmerman put it.

As did Trayvon's mom.

quote:

"But now I know that God has called Trayvon. He was chosen."

"God is in control."

- Sybrina Fulton

(Lots of people share the belief that everything that happens, good and bad, is all part of God's plan.)

Why are you taking her words entirely out of context like this? Are you that determined to twist everything? And why do you never include sources with your posts?

I feel certain you don't buy Zimmerman's crap about the entire sequence of events being "God's will", so why are you spouting it like it's some sort of truth that everyone involved is agreeing on?

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(in reply to Raiikun)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/22/2012 1:31:37 AM

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You're the one taking things out of context.

(in reply to Nosathro)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/22/2012 1:33:10 AM

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icj0qNqiwVo if anyone cares about context.

(in reply to Raiikun)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/22/2012 1:39:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

Why are you taking her words entirely out of context like this? Are you that determined to twist everything?

I'm not twisting anything; I don't see the difference. I see two different people affected by a tragedy who share a similar belief that God is in control.

quote:

I feel certain you don't buy Zimmerman's crap about the entire sequence of events being "God's will", so why are you spouting it like it's some sort of truth that everyone involved is agreeing on?

Whether or not I share George's and Sybrina's beliefs is irrelevant, nor am I spouting their beliefs as truth. I just don't think it's my place to attack or judge their beliefs.

(in reply to DeviantlyD)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/22/2012 1:52:11 AM

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From: Hawai`i
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

Why are you taking her words entirely out of context like this? Are you that determined to twist everything?

I'm not twisting anything; I don't see the difference. I see two different people affected by a tragedy who share a similar belief that God is in control.

If you can't tell the difference, either it's a pretense or you're far more obtuse than I would have guessed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

I feel certain you don't buy Zimmerman's crap about the entire sequence of events being "God's will", so why are you spouting it like it's some sort of truth that everyone involved is agreeing on?

Whether or not I share George's and Sybrina's beliefs is irrelevant, nor am I spouting their beliefs as truth. I just don't think it's my place to attack or judge their beliefs.

If that were really true, you wouldn't have made the post to begin with.

_____________________________

ExiledTyrant's groupie. Catering to his ego since May 26, 2007. :D

(in reply to Raiikun)

RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/22/2012 2:41:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

If that were really true, you wouldn't have made the post to begin with.

How did you come up with that absurd conclusion?

(in reply to DeviantlyD)

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